Should I say something?

I have a young acquaintance (I believe she’s about 19) who I used to ride with when she was a kid. Her mom and I were friends. We now live far apart, but we’re connected by social media. This kid has been through a lot of social and emotional issues and she’s made a LOT of bad choices along the way. She has essentially alienated all the trainers who’ve tried to work with her. Now she “trains” horses herself. All of her horses wind up cripple or worse due to her poor judgment. Now her parents have purchased her a yearling. She is posting videos of lunging that baby, in a surcingle, in a round pen over jumps. Repeatedly.
I feel I should say something for the good of the horse. But I also feel like it’s not my business. Wondering what others would do.

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IMO … This is not a friendship worth keeping, so I wouldn’t let that be a barrier. For the good of the horses, now and in her future, say something. Not just to her. But to other people as well, to keep horses out of her hands. It won’t stop her. But at least she heard it.

She might surprise you and talk about it. Maybe she’s just so unformed and insecure as a person, she will talk with anyone who will take an interest in her, from a truthful standpoint. She may be missing the lack.

Maybe think about it as starting a dialog. But get to the main point early on, because there may not be another chance.

Not sure I’d bother with the parents, unless you think they are also concerned about her. If they created her attitude, and this situation, and enable her terrible judgments and misadventures, I’m not sure I see the point. Could make things worse for you. If the girl talks to them about what you say to her, then ok.

Let the chips fall. A lot of abuse carries on because of silence.

Not sure why people fear the social fallout more than they fear the damage done by their silence.

[Any time I see a thread title on COTH along the lines of “should I say something?”, the situation is almost always – YES. That’s your inner self telling you to go get some yes’s to validate and strengthen your resolve. :slightly_smiling_face: ]

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Where is she posting?

If it’s in a GP feed, she will get a LOT of unpleasant feedback. But she is likely not to listen to it. Someone she knows will count more.

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Since you have a past relationship, IIWM, I’d PM her & suggest that’s not a sound practice with a baby horse.
Her reaction should tell you how to go forward.
But at least you’ll have put it out there.

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YES!! Start a dialog with her. Offer resources to help her ie reputable sites.

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If she’s 19 I doubt talking to her parents will do anything.

You can try reaching out. I’d do it privately as public shaming is likely to backfire. I’d go with a compliment sandwich of how cute the baby is, very brief concern, so excited for her to have this great opportunity. The first outreach can even be only positive if you haven’t engaged with her in a while. If she has burned through a few horses and is so far removed from expert help that she thinks her current actions are okay, you’ll catch more flies with honey. Especially at 19 a sharp chastise from an adult is likely to get you blocked. I’d weigh out whether you want to play the long game of gentle coach or take the loss, unfriend, and move on.

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Find some studies that confirm what you will point to, the dangers of longing too much or too much too young.
Then mention that today trainers have learned not to longe/longe too much, to be careful.

May have to repeat it a time or ten, but eventually it may sink in without needing to make it confrontational and if it doesn’t work, she doesn’t listen, then you have done what you can, maybe not someone you want to be friends with.

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At 19, with the backstory of multiple “training” failures, pretty sure kid thinks she’s a Pro & printed references will just go in one ear & out the other.
I agree if the response is dismissive or snarky, move on, OP. This isn’t something you can change :unamused:

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If all of the information you have is off social media and you have not personally seen or had any personal conversation with this 19 year old for some time?

Hard to know what is really going on and what…ahhhh….puffing or embellishment might be going on as truth is not the heart of SM. Maybe it is not as bad as you think, maybe it is worse. Maybe 19 year old is reaching out for more attention to boost self worth? Maybe some substance abuse affecting judgement? Mom might be doing that too but in support of ir enabling DD. Hard to know long distance.

How often do you cyber chat with her mother and about what? are you actual friends sharing personal thoughts?

My thinking is all you can do is reach out and recommend some books, videos or websites on training youngsters to them. At 19, DD is not going to listen to any criticism, parents either don’t like outsiders criticizing their Adult children or want them to side with parent against Adult offspring bad behavior. It can turn into a mess with both side getting defensive. Nobody needs that and it never improves the situation.

You can simply post the recommended training aids and tell her if she wants to talk to, you, she can contact you via DM or Zoom or other private way. Same with her Mom, just offer, don’t offer any opinions or judgement on SM. Backfire on you, won’t help solve problem or protect welfare of yearling-could make it worse for them,

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I wouldn’t bother. She’s got a history of making bad choices and not learning from them, she’s clearly on her own little path here.

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I would bet real paper money that as soon as you offer any thoughts, you will be on the alienated list too. With that said, if you will feel better for saying something, go for it. I just would be prepared for her to write you off too.

I find most younger people that are interested in help will seek it out. It doesn’t sound like that’s her MO.

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Sadly, I think you would be wasting your breath.

If she has CHOSEN not to work with trainers and thinks she can do a better job yourself, where, therein lies the problem. If she doesn’t WANT to know better, she won’t. And you can’t force someone to want to do better.

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Because of her history of alienating trainers, I’m going to venture a guess that this young person’s actions are based in willful ignorance–“my uneducated ideas are superior to those of the experts.”

While plain old ignorance can require some tact–gently presented information sandwiched in between compliments or neutral comments, gifts of books, shared links to “interesting” websites or articles…combating willful ignorance is a very different situation.

People suffering from willful ignorance make a conscious choice to block out information, ideas and suggestions that conflict with their own ideas. When faced with negative feedback from friends or acquaintances or social media connections, they tend to double down, and that might include perceiving people with different opinions as enemies and isolating themselves further.

Still, this person is young. I’d say something, but I’d say it in as gentle and respectful a manner as I could. And I’d speak directly to the young person–she’s an adult, even if she’s a struggling young one.

FWIW, plenty more mature horse trainers use harmful or semi-abusive training practices. They just know how to hide it better and how to maintain a veneer of conventional professionalism.

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If it weighs heavy on your conscience DM her gently. But she’s likely not doing this because she “actually doesnt know better and no one told her” - it is likely willful given her alienation of every other community member / support / mentor in the horse world.

She’s likely going to A) ignore you or B) explode at you and the end result will be the same … which is you ‘ghosting’ this ‘tangential relationship’

This is what the mute button or the unfollow button or even the block button is for on Social Media :slight_smile: I like mute because it doesn’t alert them to the fact that you’ve disassociated, they just don’t show up in your feed anymore and you can just forget they exist and no one is the wiser!

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And so the yearling will be ruined - physically and/or mentally- as he gets older. and will be hard to sell. He’ll go from barn to barn.
Please speak up to your friend about raising young horses.
Do it for the horse.
If not you, then who ?

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There are a number of good YouTube videos out there about starting yearlings. If you could find a couple that you agree with, she might take that better than just words.

For younger people somehow the outside authority seems to resonate more. If she rejects what those trainers say, it would be interesting to hear why.

OP refers to her as “ an acquaintance” who was a kid she used to ride with who moved far away some time back with her mother who, it seems, disagrees with DDs life choices and OP stays in touch with the mom on SM.

Nobody is wishing harm to the yearling here, it’s just a near impossible situation to get involved beyond some SM recommendations of a better program…guessing through Mom. Telling somebody they are wrong can make them slam the door on further unsolicited advice and become more determined to do it their way, ends up worse for the horse.

There is little that can be done with Adults who did not ask for and do not want your help even if you are in the same barn and speaking directly to them in person let alone hundreds of miles or more away.via SM.

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It’s really hard being witness to bad training.

IME if someone isn’t paying you to be a coach thru will never listen to your advice.

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If she’s alienated every local pro, why would she listen to a stranger…?

If you HAVE to do something… maybe go with a kill them with kindness strategy. DM Mom after the holidays that some well-meaning relative gifted you a book on young horses that will only sit on your shelf but you saw Daughter has a green horse and you’d be happy to send it to her, you love seeing a young rider taking initiative etc etc. Mail them a copy of “Basic Training Of The Young Horse” with a nice note. Then mute them on social and pray?

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