shoulder in

[colorfan]

I have checked with a few online resources, -sustainable dressage, dressage accademy, as well as looking at several explanations in books.
Most diagrams seem to show the bend in shoulder-in extending through the horses head but most pictures or videos it seems the horse is pointing forward.

My question is: in shoulder-in should the horses head be a continuation of the bend and so is looking forward out of the side of their eye or is it ok if the head is more forward?

On sustainable dressage there is a diagram which shows the head continuing the bend but right beside it is a photo in which it looks like the head is pointing forward.

Is one the ideal and the other a work in progress?
thank you.

[alibi_18]

Concentrate on the body and not the head.

The mechanic of the shoulder-in is more complex than where the head should be and ultimately, when your horse’s body is in the right position (bend) with the correct impulsion, his head will fall exactly where it belongs. (or you could play with it independently.)

If your focus in on the head, you’ll end up with a neck-in.

As for Sustainable Dressage diagram and pictures: The picture on the upper right shows a Shoulder Fore. The lower picture on the left shows a 4 track shoulder in (which is not to be seen in the show ring). These are NOT regular shoulder-in.

[Twigster]

I have always been taught that it should be ridden with the bend you have on a 10m circle. Ride the circle in a corner, and then maintaining the bend, continue down the long side.

The applicable rule is DR111 3 (f) which states: Shoulder-in. This exercise is performed in collected trot. The horse is ridden with a slight but uniform bend around the inside leg of the rider maintaining cadence at a constant angle of approx. 30 degrees.

To me this implies bend all the way through the neck, and the figure shows the same.

[Scribbler]

I’m not quite sure how it could be a shoulder in if the horse’s shoulders, and therefore neck and head, were not pointing towards the inside of the arena at the same angle of the rest of the body? For schooling purposes, the shoulder in can be at the walk or trot, at different angles, different tracks (3 or 4), depending on what you’re trying to supple. But in all of these, if the shoulders are at all to the inside, the neck would naturally follow the shoulders. You don’t want the neck cranked around more than the angle of the body, of course.

If you are seeing differences in head position between different examples of shoulder-in, perhaps the real difference is in how much angle the body is at in each case?

[ideayoda]

The horse should be evenly bent head to tail. Shoulder fore (2 1/2 tracks) is the first step onto a 20m circle going straight ahead, shoulder in (3 tracks) the first step onto a 10m circle, and shoulder in (4 tracks) the bending of a 6 or 8m volte.

[Reddfox]

Colorfan,
On SustainableDressage, the diagram showing the bend evenly through the body is correct - the photo beside it is of the shoulder fore - which is a much more shallow curve.

For a correct shoulder in, you absolutely want to make sure that the bend is happening in the body - you want to be able to still see the outside cheek piece of your bridle - if you can’t - chances are it’s too much neck bend.

Within shoulder in, you can ride it on 3 tracks or 4 tracks. 3 Tracks is usually more bend, 4 tracks is usually a bit more displacement. This video is a good reference for all the lateral work.

https://youtu.be/8xm_AumnCRg

[colorfan]

Thank you all , this has clarified my overthinking!

[lorilu]

Mr trainer reminds me that it’s SHOULDER in, and the head/neck should be a continuation of that - with the head in a smooth curved line from the withers. Imagine that part of a circle where the haunches are on the line but the body is curving away from the rail. The haunches continue straight (no crossing hind legs).

[Scribbler]

The diagrams and the literature all stress that the horse should bend in the body, for shoulder in and on the circle, etc. But in fact horses don’t have that much flexibility through the rib cage. You can see this if you do one of those “carrot stretches” that equine massage therapists and chiropractors recommend. The horse can reach all the way back to the point of hip with its neck, but there is very little sideways bend in the actual spine and ribs, even when the horse is totally motivated and just about turning itself inside out for that carrot. Or if you go stand with your horse when it is lying down in the field, and look at the back from above. The horse is curled up on its side, but the line of the spine is not that curved, especially when you think of how a cat or dog would curl in that position.

[Mondo]

A visual check from the saddle - horse’s chin should be no more in than the inside point of his shoulder.