Shoulder Pain? In Rider

Hi!
I get shoulder pain during my rides, and I can’t understand why…
Does anyone else get shoulder pain? If yes, what is the intensity of your pain? Does anyone have any suggestions as to why I may get this pain, and maybe a way to fix it? THANKS!

Just to clear things up: I just turned fourteen, so I don’t think it is because of an aging body! I spent three months on the lunge recently, to perfect my position, so hopefully it’s not that! Although that could be a factor… :confused:
And I own a 16.3 TB/Han mare. 11 years old, been a jumper her whole life. But dressage has somehow taken over my life, and I am trying to do some dressage with her. Could she maybe be a factor? She pulls sometimes, but I have found that even when I ride other horses, such as my Trainer’s I1 gelding, who doesn’t pull, I get shoulder pain too, but not nearly as intense. Hmmmm…?!

If anyone has had any experience with this type of thing, your input is GREATLY appreciated!

You need to learn to support your upper body position w/your core and not your arms.

Hopefully you can find a trainer who can teach you to do it… otherwise, I suggest a good yoga class and to tell the instructor why you are there.

I rode two difficult horses yesterday and my guts hurt, not my shoulders… but I remember before I understood how to support my own body, my shoulders would have been killing me!

It’s important to tell your parents and see a doctor to get a diagnosis. There’s just too much it could be, but, as a rule, no, dressage should not make your shoulder hurt. We older folk have a million aches and pains from sports related injuries, bursitis, arthritis. Having a diagnosis is crucial to healing.

I second KJ. Rotator cuff injuries are common among the equestrian set as well, but treatment depends entirely on the diagnosis. Don’t ignore it when you are young, or then when you DO have the aging body, you will regret that you did. Ask me how I know!:lol:

Ah yes, Kathy is right.

However… no matter what is wrong with you, you will have to use your core and not your shoulders…

I have not one but two frayed rotator cuffs and my left collarbone was broken and reconnected w/fibrous tissue rather than bone. The former was FROM riding w/my shoulders rather than my core (longeing young horses didn’t help, either) and the latter from an injury that was not handled properly by the MD’s. Regardles… to continue riding and ride WELL, I had to learn to use my core and not my shoulders/arms to support myself. Hard lesson.

matey your a 1/2 pint compare to an adult and to be riding a 16.3h is a big horse for ones so young and might be of a smaller frame body plus if the horse is to big and your short then you havent got the leg lenght -

i wil explain myslef by the meaning leg lenght-- with small children riding apony they have a saddle and an ankle and thats its, with adults riding horses they have a saddle and a calf and an ankle
so the lenght of leg is all there

if ones a short person the they would have the same sort of leg lenght on a bigger horse
if one was tall or taller they might have the lenght which does happen to be more helpful with balance issues

horses when being used for children teenagers or adults should be sized by weight and height
and caperbilities of the rider

so therefore this might tip you forwards then you would therfore balance on reins or become hand set or heavyin the reins and in the bridle and as your schoulders are off center— hence the schoulder pain how to adviod it is to sit up
and then make sure your stirrups are the correct lenght-- check out this link of how to correct them
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=172181

ridng with wrong lenght on any horse can effect your position
so frust the bust and sit up and look up between horses ears

you havent the body weight behind you as an adult as your only 14yrs old so that would mean no strenght as yet -
what you need to do is learn to ride from an independant seat this will help with your balance and develope you centrally on the horse

ask your instructor to put you on the lunge so you can learn to get your balance via sitting trot without stirrups this will help you sit in your seat and push your weight down evenly down you center down your back down you legs and to your ankles

then also do simple other simple exercises whilse on the lunge
round the world sissors, half dismount and mount again, thread the needle ,
learn to keep a crop on your thumbs across your hands at walk and trot without dropping it
also, other simple exercises star burst whilse going round on the lunge-- ie hands in air like a star and legs off so bum is the only thing keeping on the horse do it in walk then master that one in trot

your seat is your glue —in sitting trot imagine you have a tube of toothpaste
and sit and hold it there- in rising trot as in up on 1 and down on 2 so its sit and sqirt
not sit and blast-- so the gap between you and your bum is small and not huge so on biiger neds you ride also from your stomach as you push up into rsisng trot- thus keeps you central
once central your schoulder pains will go as you become more balanced
and your core sthrenght is biult up

its important to ride from an independant seat as this aviods the pulling of the horse
by bit avadssion the rider which again is on alink on the thread
its all relevent

Try to make sure you are not rolling your shoulders forward… not even a little. If so try a Shoulders Back.sold in Dover catalog.

DOCTOR!

don’t adjust position, get it looked at. it’s not right for a young kid to have persistent pain in a joint.

Thanks for the great replies!

I just started doing Pilates with my mom, so hopefully that will help! I am about 5’6, 125 punds, and riding my mare isn’t a problem. She’s really light off the leg, etc and because of being half TB, is pretty sensitive, and responds amazingly to the seat. Although I’m not a really slight type of person, I’m faaaarrrr away from being a body builder!! I’m weak. Period. :lol: I’m working on it, but working out isn’t all that fun, haha!

I don’t want to toot my own horn, but my position is pretty good. I’ve spent ALOT of time on the lunge, just working on my seat, and expecially the position of my hands. Unfortunately, I don’t have a picture of my position to show, but I have a picture of what my position used to look like!! It’s NOT pretty! So I am thinking, maybe I injured my shoulders while my horse was a puller, and while I was a puller (on her.) She would pull, I pull. It’s definitely not like that now.

As this pain started about a year and a half ago, I have since gone to see a Physio Therapist, have had Acu-Puncture (sp?) and have had to go to the Hospital so they could do tests to be sure it wasn’t Juvenile (sp?) Arthiritis. It wasn’t.

The pain used to bring me to tears. But I have kind of learned to cope with it. I just can’t shake the feeling that I could be so much more effective if my arms wouldn’t hurt so bad that I had trouble using them!

But to add: Whenever I am on the lunge, sitting this horses super bumby trot, holding the buckle rein… I have never felt soreness in my abs. I know for certain that I’m not hanging onto my reins, because I have to let them go and circle my arms, etc. No problem. But I never feel any pain. Although I like not being sore, I don’t understand it. Other people say that their entire being hurts, and I don’t feel a thing. This probably means I am doing something wrong! But what could it be? :confused:

It seems like you are talking about pain not “Ive used my muscles too much” soreness. And that is not normal. Does it hurt doing things besides riding? Do your parents know how much it hurts?
What did the doctor say when they determined it wasnt Juvenile arthritis? Does he/she know that it still hurts? You still need a diagnosis. It could result from a problem with your neck, not just an issue with your shoulder. If you don’t have a diagnosis that accounts for your continuing pain and assures you that you are not doing damage to yourself, you need to go back to the doctor!

It could be something harder to diagnose. The one thing I think of right off the top of my head is an extra rib.

Buddy of mine had that, it’s just a little bitty rib on top of all the other ribs, where there’s no space for it, and every time he held his arm in a certain position it made the extra rib put pressure on sensory nerves. He had numbness, pain, etc. You could be growing now so finally the extra rib is pressing on something and making it hurt.

I can’t remember if they did surgery on it (I think they just relieve the bone a little so it doesn’t press on the nerves) or just treated it with exercises. Yep, it can be treated very conservatively because the shoulder, to some extent, its position is determined by how the muscles around it are developed. There’s a very complex group of muscles around the shoulder and they can do a lot to fix problems if they’re developed properly.

Especially at your age, you can actually have ‘growing pains’. Often kids don’t feel these til they exercise. It’s often in the knee or hip and could possibly just be REFERRED to your shoulder - (read below).

But - do you only get the pain on THIS horse only - or is this just the only horse you’re riding that much so you can’t really tell for sure if it only happens on this horse?

Do you have the pain all the time you’re riding, or only during certain points of the ride doing certain things?

Does the pain start the MOMENT you start riding?

Does it develop 20-30 min into the ride?

Most importantly, does it continue AFTER your ride? For how long?

Is it a throbbing, dull pain or a very sharp, needle-like pain? How big of an area does it cover, just a pinpoint, or a larger area? Does it radiate, or spread out? If it radiates, does it feel like its a very wide path, or just a very slim path it radiates out over?

Is there ANYTHING - anything you can do such as pressing on a certain point that makes it WORSE? BETTER?

WHERE is it - on your back below your shoulder blade? Under it? Above it? Where your arm joins to your shoulder, or further in toward your spine (midline of your body)? DOes it feel like its on the surface or deep under something? Does it hurt more when you bounce or move, does it hurt only when you’re moving?

Do you have it only when you old the reins and not when you longe with out reins?

What position do you hold your arms in when you are being longed?

Does the horse pull? No, I think you said she pulls SOMETIMES, so it’s not clear if that is or isn’t it.

If she’s very light, is she very through with a good connection? Are you sure she goes forward across the ground instead of up and down? Because that can stress your back.

Are you SURE the pain is not referred pain? Pain in the back or hip can very, very often ‘REFER’ and actually be felt in the shoulder - the pain signal goes to other nerves than the one where the pain originated, that’s just how our nervous systems work.

You can’t always say for a fact, that when you feel a pain, that that is exactly where the pain was PRODUCED or the spot that needs to be fixed. It could be from your back or hip - or honestly, a number of other spots too!

Go and see a doctor.

I speaketh as one who has had four surgeries to my right arm in a one-year period. Granted, I had a fall which started it all, but what REALLY bugs me is the damage riding with a sore shoulder for two years did to my position. Ack!

As this pain started about a year and a half ago, I have since gone to see a Physio Therapist, have had Acu-Puncture (sp?) and have had to go to the Hospital so they could do tests to be sure it wasn’t Juvenile (sp?) Arthiritis. It wasn’t.

Oh, thank goodness. That was what I was worried about. The last young student I had who complained of chronic pain in the shoulders was diagnosed with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Be happy it’s not that. If it’s a sports related injury, typically your doctor will refer you to the physical therapist who will give you the correct exercises to do for that specific injury.

EqTrainer is right that strengthening your core will relieve the stress on your other joints. However, I’ve done years of pilates and there are certain exercises that can make an injury worse. So, you, your doctor, your physical therapist and your pilates coach will need to work as a team to fix it, the same way our vets, trainers, riders, and extra support staff help our horses as a team.

I have a shoulder impingement that radiates pain from my shoulder to my elbow, especially at night, when it flairs up. I have a very strong warmblood mare who can especially get it going. Carrying the whip in that hand also makes it flair up. Certain exercises, like military press and downward dog in yoga make it much worse. Ice after riding is my friend, because it reduces inflammation.

This is an adult condition, though. But, it is possible to have shoulder pain that is not related to core strength or riding position. Get it figured out, and work with a personal trainer or PT that understands your condition.

I just want to thank everyone so much! I really appreciate this, and I’ll try to answer all the questions.

We were really worried about the Juvenile Arthirits becauase my mother had it when she was in her teens, and went to the Rheumatology doctor, and he said that it’s not Arthirits, he thought that I could have a slight (sorry, I forgot what the condition is called) but the medication he perscribed didn’t do anything, so that was eliminated. The doctor said that he doesn’t have a diagnosis, but he doesn’t think that by continuing riding I will do some serious damage. I wish I could offer more information about that appointment, but near the beginning of it, he started talking about stopping or slacking off on riding, and I got really emotional and stopped listening… But I’d rather have pain that stop riding! I love Dressage! But at one point, he was talking about me having a Pain Amplification Disorder, where I am feeling pain, but my sensory nerves go crazy and make it feel worse than it is… I don’t know about that. All I know is that I’m seriously feeling pain. Also, this doctor didn’t understand Dressage at all. He thought that we had to hold ourselves in a position at all times. Although that is true, and we are using our muscles, we aren’t like TENSE all the time, we don’t have to grip with our legs, etc, to stay on. We work in balance, he didn’t get it.

Sorry, I don’t really know about the quote thing, but:

“Buddy of mine had that, it’s just a little bitty rib on top of all the other ribs, where there’s no space for it, and every time he held his arm in a certain position it made the extra rib put pressure on sensory nerves. He had numbness, pain, etc. You could be growing now so finally the extra rib is pressing on something and making it hurt.” -slc2

-That is crazy. It’s hard to explain the kind of pain I get, but I described it to the doctor as painful and numb. Wow. Next time I go see the doctor, I will talk to him about that. Ugh, I just want to fix this so bad.
-About the growing pains, I have definitely experienced those! I would get them in my knees and feet, but haven’t for a year or so now.
-It’s not just on this horse alone, however, I can’t remember being in pain before I bought her and started working her in dressage. After that, I get pain on other horses. On my other horse, I get it, but definitely not as intense as on the mare. On my trainer’s gelding, I got it too. Not worse than on my mare though.

  • As soon as I start playing with the reins, or holding the outside rein, or bending my horse, those are when it hurts.
    -The same kind of pain doesn’t happen after my ride. My shoulders don’t feel “sore” during my ride, but afterwards, the morning after specifically, my shoulder’s can get stiff.
  • I am very bad at explaining my pain. I can say, is that it has brought me to tears, and that it can get “numbing.” When I get this pain, it is really hard for me to control the pressure I put on the reins properly, sometimes I put too much, sometimes not enough. But as soon as there is Zero pressure on the reins, the pain stops. (I think a lot of people will be like, “it sounds like you ride a lot with your hands, front to back instead of back to front” but I am only explaining how I ride with my hands, and not my seat or legs. I have a great coach, and she helps me with this but I do sometimes ride front to back (URG!!)
  • Wow, I’m not sure if I understand the pain enough to answer these questions! I found a picture of a shoulder and drew on where the pain is. The red is for when I get stiffness and pain after my ride, and the blue is where I get pain during my ride.
  • I only get the pain when I am applying pressure on the reins
    -When I am being longed, I hold my hands where I would as if I was holding the reins, or else I am doing exercises with them (circles, etc.)
  • I’m never really sure if my horse pulls, because I feel pain whether or not she is. But my trainer got off her and said wow, even my shoulder’s hurt a little bit. So yeah, she pulls. No, she’s not through. My trainer and I believe that since she has been bitted up, etc because she was a strong jumper. Now she is very hesitant about letting go over her back while a rider is on. It’s improving, but FAR from perfect. I’m not quite sure what you meant by does she go forward instead of up and down, but she doesn’t swing over her back.

Sorry for the essay!! Thanks!

Is it your SHOULDER that hurts (i.e. where your arm meets your body), or is it your back, near your shoulder blade?

I have very severe pain in the area I refer to as my “shoulder,” but is actually between my right shoulder blade and spine, plus a little above. When it’s really bad, it radiates down the back of my arm and into my ring and pinky fingers. Other times when it’s bad, it goes down through the lower right side of my back (my sacroiliac joint), from the outside of my hip, across my thigh, down the inside of my knee, the inside edge of my shin bone, and through the arch of my foot. Sometimes (especially, for example, if I’m running), the right side of my chest (front) will burn. It feels almost like a heart attack.

I used to BEG people to just dig as hard as they could in to the knot on my shoulder… I would lay on tennis balls and dig hoof picks into my back to try to alleviate the pain. I frequently had to take vicodin after riding.

I went to several general practitioners, several orthopedic surgeons, multiple chiropractors, physical therapists, acupuncturists… nobody was very helpful. They mostly just poked, prodded, and gave me pain medication.

I finally found an absolutely brilliant chiropractor. I started describing my symptoms to him, and he finished the description for me. After the first time he adjusted me, I actually CRIED in his office because it released an enormous amount of pain I didn’t realize I was in ALL THE TIME.

I had also had “sinus headaches” for years (right sinuses, particularly the one over my eye). Part of what my wonderful chiropractor does is adjust the upper part of my neck (the deepest part of that bump from the bottom of your skull meeting your neck)… INSTANT headache relief. All these years, I had been going to ENT drs who prescribed endless antibiotics for sinus infections, and it was actually my neck being out of alignment.

So… can you be more specific about where your pain is?

Or, to pinpoint if it’s in the same place as mine…

  1. Stand in a doorway. Hold your hands up and out to the side, and lay one palm against each side of the door frame (fingers pointing up). Your elbows should be at 90* angles. Lean forward so your hands are supporting you, and bring your shoulder blades up and together a little. Keep leaning your weight forward and see if it starts to hurt your shoulder (it’ll be a “good hurt,” like you’re stretching something out).
    OR
  2. Stand in front of a wall, facing away from it. Bring your right arm behind you so that the back of your hand is against the back of your left hip. Do the same (but opposite) with your left hand. Loosely hold your left elbow in your right hand and your right elbow in your left hand. Your shoulder blades should be sticking out a little. Lean back against the wall; make sure both your head and shoulder blades are against the wall. Put pressure on your shoulder blades by leaning on them.

http://www.necksolutions.com/images/neck-and-shoulder-pain.gif
This image gives a pretty clear picture of where my shoulder hurts, although only the right side of my back hurts, and the pain is concentrated a couple inches lower than where that bottom picture suggests. And the top left picture, my pain is more over my eyebrow than temple.

If these are the symptoms you’re having, send me an email and I can give you the information from my chiropractor “travel card” to see if you can get a chiro to do the same adjustments. It literally changed my life.

AH! It hurts when you try to use your reins.

Have you taken any medication? I think you mentioned some medication that didn’t help.

Did anyone give you any exercises? Did they help? Usually, they give us riders great exercises, but not sufficient repetitions or sets of those exercises. I’ve often had to work up to 3-4 times more repetitions and sets to get a PT’s exercise to help me!

But see, if you can answer those questions, you can help the doc figure out what it is! That is really the first step, that you can communicate what this is. I am SURE the doc can find what it is then.

This is the problem with pain, that we experience it in the moment, and can’t put it into words. I’m really glad you drew the picture but keep thinking about it, please, and keep trying to put it into words.

Anything that we can express accurately in words, we can fix. I guarantee you. It’s the communication that’s important.

if you CAN’T describe something in words, chances are, it means you’re adapting or compensating, and shutting out some of the sensation you’re feeling.

That may be why you can’t exactly say how or when the horse pulls. You’re shutting out a lot of sensation from your immediate attention. Both animals and people do this when they are sensory - overloaded or have pain.

Horses can get really strong when they have been jumpers, or if they can get very straight in the neck and lack suppleness. You might have to work alot on suppleness, not by doing exaggerated bending, necessarily (occasionally as a very last ditch correction only) but by using leg yield to get him looser through his body. Often they ride jumpers in Myler or some of those other bits that then cause them to get strong in the usual dressage snaffle and flash. Usually in dressage, we get fixed on specific bits and say, if the horse’s lips or bars are used to a jumper bit, they may not be reacting to the bit as desired. But what people usually do in dressage, rather than getting to a thinner or harsher bit, is try to get at this using cavesons or other aids.

You might consider a gag bit temporarily, which works more on the lips, and almost does a kind of half halt up in the corners of the horse’s mouth FOR you, which can help a horse that pulls. Some people will ride a horse like that with a gag rein and a snaffle rein and switch back and forth as needed.

Another thing some trainers will do is tie a light thin string to the girth, run it forward to the bit, feed it thru the bit ring (inside to outside of bit ring) and then back to your hand. You can get a better opening rein this way. You can also drop the string from your hand if there is a problem.

Another technique is to longe the horse with sidereins and use one side rein shorter (putting him say, going to the left if he falls in to the left and putting the left side rein 2-3 holes shorter ), and use the whip to push the horse out on the circle and get him to bend his body and not fall in on one side and stop weighting that side more.

Sometimes I’ve seen people do some pretty incredible things to get jumpers more ‘broke’. Some jumper trainers don’t fix things, they just sort of figure out how to have the horse jump without fixing some things. Some things can even get WORSE during jumping, especially with this kind of trainer. Sometimes jumpers don’t HAVE trainers- just a series of catch riders, and oftne they are VERY good at ‘making do with what is there’, and they specifically don’t fix things, they just work around them.

You might have to do a lot of schooling with your jumper.

OFTEN a power horse that jumps can be constantly using his muscles in one way and get very stiff and fixed in how he uses his muscles. A jumper uses his neck alot, like a balancing rod, and to do that he has to ‘set’ certain muscles and hold them steady.

SOMETIMES a horse is harder on one side because he’s leaning too much weight onto that side. He may not actually be TRYING to be harder to bend on that side, he may have so much of his weight leaning on that side that he CAN’T bend well. Bending him and moving him away from your inside leg with a kind of leg yield position might help.

I’ve seen people put one hand way up and tip the horse’s nose in a little and get a lot of flexion right at the poll to try and loosen up muscles that have been fixed in one position literally for years.

I’ve even seen people bend the neck and then lean forward and slap, punch and massage the muscles in the neck. One European trainer did that alot and told me if you keep up slapping the muscle, it will gradually let go and loosen - a light slapping sensation seems to ‘distract’ the muscle.

Sometimes the horse needs to do a ton of counter flexion, going around and around and around, sometimes even with quite a lot of positioning, to stretch and start to supple muscles.

Sometimes a rather deep position helps jumpers to start to loosen their muscles. And sometimes you can bring them very deep, and bend from one side to the other.

Sometimes leg yield is really your friend, and you can exaggerate it, do it across the whole arena with leading shoulders and trailing haunches (an ‘incorrect’ and very powerful exercise from schumacher!)

Sometimes counter canter with a counter bend is your friend, or just plain old counter canter.

Sometimes if one rein is hard you just need to give on the other rein, and sometimes if one rein is hard, you try to take the other one!

Muscles can get VERY, VERY strong, and yet not supple. They get fixed in one position and get very stiff. And very likely, what’s happening to your shoulder is because of just how stiff and fixed the horse’s muscles really are!

Oh yeah… I’m never on COTH anymore, so if that sounds promising, drop me a line at aecarr10(at)gmail.com.

Another “good stretch” (this assumes it is your right shoulder- if it’s your left just use your left arm instead)- bring your right elbow up to your right ear, letting your upper arm fall down parallel to your neck/spine. Hold your elbow up with your left hand so that your back muscles are tight. Then move your head forward/down a little bit and pull back hard on your right elbow.

Given everything.

This started when you started dressage. Which means, you most likely started being taught to ‘drop into your inside seat’.

A lot of people also drop the inside shoulder. This elicits tension in the area immediately beneath the shoulder. You need to almost think of lifting the inside shoulder and stretching through that side. When I sit in that position, I can feel too much tension on the muscles beneath and inside the shoulder blade.

Get a chiropractor to check you. You may have pushed something out of alignment sitting that way.

I had a really bad muscle knot in my right side that was worsened by riding. Once I corrected my tendency to ‘row’ with my upper body in the canter, it went away.

I hope you are also talking to your trainer about this.

I find it odd that the physio did not help…

YOu are describing a typical tendonitis type pain.

JRA has been ruled out…good.
Now what about an anterior instability, impingement, S.I.C.K. Scapula, Atypical Acromium (type II,III)?
How about a clip or serial pics where you know you have pain.

DO you have pain off the horse, with other activities, do your hands fall asleep or get tingling in certain positions, etc…
I’m saying there is a whole gamut of easy items that need to be looked at.

Regards,
Medical Mike
equestrian medical researcher.
www.fitfocusedforward.us