Hi everyone!
Lately I’ve been sprucing up my mare’s showmanship skills since the plan is that after I retire her from riding I’m going to show her on the local circuit in SMS, and I’ve noticed that her pivot on the hind is pretty lackluster. What happens is that when I start walking into her and giving her the pivot cue, she starts turning instead of keeping her body straight, so her neck is arched and she won’t get her shoulder out of the way.
What are some good ways to fix the issue?
Ask for the pivot.
If she doesn’t move that shoulder, then use a hoof pick or your thumb to poke that shoulder, when she makes one nice step over without moving the hind foot, walk her out of the pivot. Don’t drill the perfect pivot, walk her out when you get one good move.
Practice, practice, practice.
yes, you need shoulder control on the ground, just like when riding, so that not just the head and neck turn, but those shoulders move
Same as when teaching a correct spin, you get one or two correct steps, then out and forward, and build on that
…continuing… has the horse ever seen another horse do what you are asking it to do?
Just wondering as we found that our horses learned quite a bit by watching the others.
When we took our show horses out onto competitive trail (NATRC) they learned to hold their breath during the P&Rs from watching the other horses… there wasn’t any teaching at all
Pivoting is a FORWARD movement, even though the HR is planted. Think of going “out” not “over”. 
Stand at her eye, shoulders towards her. Walk towards her and pull her head out, poking between her neck and shoulder with her finger. When she moves put pressure down. So out, down, out, down. Move her head with the shank and your shoulders, keep her straight by poking her with your finger. That’s how we’ve taught all of our paints.
It isn’t going to be prettyat first and she’s probably going to keep her head up for a little while. It took a horse at my barn (referred to in our circle as “THE Showmanship Horse” :lol: ) to pivot quickly and perfectly with his head down. It took the gelding I showed about one week to pivot decently with his head down, of course without the speed or confidence as TSH. Just depends.
Really Clanter!
Sorry, but I have yet to just have a horse watch another horse and thus simplify training them!
Imagine, a horse watching a reiner spin, and then knowing how to place those legs in that turn around, etc!
Yup, just as I posted, a pivot like a reining spin is a forward motion, thus feet crossing over in front, versus sucking back and hitting behind
Consider your body. Your shoulders must be parallel to the horse to present a wall to turn the horse. Also, if any part of your body is behind the horse’s eye you may be folding the horse around instead of stretching him. Try staying out in front more toward the nose to keep your horse straight rather than bending. Use the lead to keep your horse’s front end with the weight carried over the right hind. The right hind cannon should remain as vertical as possible during the turn.
that’s how we have “taught” all of horses to load into a trailer, no big deal once they see what you want them to do. We use one that knows what to do, tell them to load which they do the new horse see that and follows.
of course once in the trip to the doughnut shop to get an apple fritter seems to reinforce the “training”
Thank you so much everyone! I have noticed that I do tend to start walking into her neck and closer to her shoulder (subconsiously trying to get her shoulder over, maybe?), so a good part of this may be user error :lol: I’ll also do one step at a time like so many of you suggested, that’s a good method I’ve used on her before that works well with how she thinks. I believe that’s how I intially taught her how to do a pivot on the hind.
Thank you especially to Alpha App, you gave the best description that made the most sense in my brain!
The horse needs to move away from your body. The pivot is always a forward movement. Use your hand to push the horse away, but always remember the goal is to not use your hand the horse is moving away from your body. Be completely consistent in your movements. Watch the back right foot and subtly reposition yourself as needed. The back right foot is your plant foot the back left will need to move forward to allow your horse to stay planted.
I don’t know about a spin, but yes, horses do learn by watching other horses. Think about the trail ride where your greenie would not jump a stream or other obstacle and your friend’s old hand (old hoof) gave you and your horse a lead. Greenie sees the old hoof can do it, and follows.
I hear it works for loading and unloading sometimes too. So why not for pivots?
[QUOTE=Wellspotted;7794959]
I don’t know about a spin, but yes, horses do learn by watching other horses. Think about the trail ride where your greenie would not jump a stream or other obstacle and your friend’s old hand (old hoof) gave you and your horse a lead. Greenie sees the old hoof can do it, and follows.
I hear it works for loading and unloading sometimes too. So why not for pivots?[/QUOTE]
I think horses learn bravery from other horses. The bridge didn’t fall when they walked over it, it shouldn’t when I do either. I don’t think a horse would see another horse pivot and think, “hey, I’ll just spin around my hind hoof.” It would be so much easier that way though. :lol:
I realize this line is off the discussion of the thread but when we started doing competitive trail, we watched our horse learn from the others… we never taught them to hold their breath… but after a few rides, the horses learned to hold their breath
. It usually takes a new horse 5-6 rides before he understands, so be patient.
http://www.natrc.org/the_basics_PR.htm
I do not think our horses any smarter than others but we find that with Morgans if you give them the cliff notes the night before, they will have figured out what to do
[QUOTE=clanter;7793175]
that’s how we have “taught” all of horses to load into a trailer, no big deal once they see what you want them to do. We use one that knows what to do, tell them to load which they do the new horse see that and follows.
of course once in the trip to the doughnut shop to get an apple fritter seems to
reinforce the “training”[/QUOTE]
Well, that is a bit different, a horse getting into a trailer because another horse does, or riding over an obstacle , following another horse, etc ,versus a horse watching a man-over on the ground or riding and then performing that manover just by watching. heck, you could have them watch a training DVD , then perform perfect flying lead changes, sliding stops, etc
My horses all load because they are solid on giving to pressure and they lead.
We raised horses for many years, and the first time any of them were asked to load, was when being hauled for a trail ride for the first time, or to a show or sold.
They all loaded first time. A loading problem is a leading problem. Horses dont need to learn to load, just be solid on leading, without questioning where they will or will not lead.
[QUOTE=Alpha App;7795205]
I think horses learn bravery from other horses. The bridge didn’t fall when they walked over it, it shouldn’t when I do either. I don’t think a horse would see another horse pivot and think, “hey, I’ll just spin around my hind hoof.” It would be so much easier that way though. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Horses are herd animals, and sure, they will follow a seasoned horse, it is their herd prey mentality, trusting in that horses leadership, but that is miles apart from watching a trained horse perform a skilled manover and then understanding how to do it. Ever have a horse just watch another horse sidepass, turn on the haunches, turn on the forehand, ect and then just absorb that procedure, so that when the rider gets on, they have learned how to sidepass, etc.
[QUOTE=KIloBright;7796955]
Horses are herd animals, and sure, they will follow a seasoned horse, it is their herd prey mentality, trusting in that horses leadership, but that is miles apart from watching a trained horse perform a skilled manover and then understanding how to do it. Ever have a horse just watch another horse sidepass, turn on the haunches, turn on the forehand, ect and then just absorb that procedure, so that when the rider gets on, they have learned how to sidepass, etc.[/QUOTE]
I was agreeing with you.
Alright, I’m bringing this thread back from the dead. Zombie thread!
Sabino Mare had to be retired earlier than I thought :sigh: so we have been doing our SMS regularly now. Everything has been going great… except, I realized today she is pivoting on her left foot! Ugh! I feel like a fool for not realizing it until now.
Can I get some advice on getting her to switch to her inside foot? Google gave me some answers but all for either undersaddle or reining spins. TIA
[QUOTE=sabinomare;8120447]
Can I get some advice on getting her to switch to her inside foot? Google gave me some answers but all for either undersaddle or reining spins. TIA[/QUOTE]
If she’s been pivoting on her “outside” hind foot, then she doesn’t have true forward motion in her pivots. Because if she pivots on the outside hind, that means the inside hind has to step BACKWARDS to get out of the way.
Of course the correct pivot has the inside hind planted, with the outside hind stepping FORWARD around the foot.
Honestly, start from scratch. Act like she doesn’t know how to pivot. Re-train her. Start with her doing just a couple steps correctly and build on that. Make sure she is moving FORWARD.
yes^ has to be a forward movement, trick i’ve been taught is to make sure you’re almost but not quite asking the horse to move forward. Could ask for a step over and then a step forward, step over then step forward, make sure your shoulders and body position is where it should be (videoing yourself really helps with this!).
Reading some of the older replies, there are lots of references to poking the horse’s shoulder to get it to move with the head and neck. I used to use this method, but found it puts my body out of position and creates more problems than it helps. I just have to tap the shank to get my horse to straighten up and have found it helps many others as well. If that doesn’t work for your horse, I’d recommend using a crop to get the shoulder moving so your body can be in better position.
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