Dalpal -
Could you PM me the name of your chiro?
Also the name/contact information for where you got the SI injection done at? And… if you don’t mind… the total cost?
I am close to Raleigh.
Thanks!!
Chiro came to adjust mare (SI was done in July, last Chiro adjustment late June)…I’ve been working mare on a regular work program…
Chiro started laughing and said…“You know, I just can’t really find anything that needs adjusting on her today…two vertebrae in the neck and that’s it”. :yes:
Before SI injection, we were having to adjust her pelvis every single visit.
this is all great news!
My guy was done about 2 weeks ago. We started him back and have been very pleased so far…then he went and gave himself a nice stone bruise! So, we’ll try again in a few days.
parked out? yep
[QUOTE=ShaSamour;5799001]
Have any of your horses done the parking-out thing?[/QUOTE]
Yes big time, my guy was parking out. He has mltiple issues but pentosan is working wonders on them. And he is moving better than ever. (as a funny: my regular farm vet was out taking care of my horses’ other issues and I told his vet tech about my horse camping out…vet tech was like…nah, hes just been trained to do that… so tech sets him up to stand all parked out…and the look on my horses face was like ahhhhh! thanks, that feels better…but the tech is positive my ex eventer irish sport horse has been trained to park :lol:…it was then I knew to run screaming directly to my equine lameness vet.
So I did…explained horse was NQR in his hindend. He was parking out… He also had muscle atropy in his croup, a weird dip (the opposite of a hunter bump) in his SI area. Vet came out… paplated his back, when he got back by his SI, BOOM! horse about collapsed. My vet reccommended chiro first, if he wont stay in alignment over the winter to bring him in in spring, before riding season, and have an ultra sound guided SI injection.
[QUOTE=Du Hast;5860803]
He also had muscle atropy in his croup, a weird dip (the opposite of a hunter bump) in his SI area. [/QUOTE]
Like this?
It’s slight, and the background lines up inconveniently, but you can just see the little dip on his topline.
The longer I follow this thread the more it seems to be about my big guy. It’s been one thing after another around here and I still haven’t had a chance to get the chiro out and look at him… After a few weeks off we’re gradually reintroducing slow, stretchy work, and he’s doing much better. I still notice him parking out once in a while, and one lead is definitely stickier than the other. He doesn’t seem to be suffering but I hate to think he might still be uncomfortable somewhere…
Yup, the back and SI have been severely overlooked I am convinced that in dressage, we will see more SI and back injections over the next ten years because issues there are more prevalent than we thought ten years ago. Furthermore, it would not surprise me if we see that many pre-purchase exams start to include radiographs of the back, and we will see a greater number of horses with Kissing Spine (because we will look for it more, not that we are doing anything to hurt our horses backs or anything like that). We will probably also see a decrease in stifle injections, for it seems that in dressage, the stifles are frequently not as stressed as the SI and most issues that were treated as stifles were probably instead SI or back issues. That all said, it is amazing what mesotherapy and back/SI injections can do for a horse 
Since I’m fairly new to this board, I would like to revive this thread. I have read each and every post and it has been such a huge revelation! There has been something NQR with my horse for the past 6 months or more and it has been nagging at me. He has not been ‘lame’ per se so felt it would just be money wasted to have the local vets come out for a lameness check, flexion tests, etc. because I already know that whatever it is - it’s not going to be something obvious to the vets in my local area.
Reading all the symptoms described here along with the very informative links to articles regarding SI pain, I feel like this is exactly my horse’s problem.
I started asking around as to who I should take him to to get him checked out, called and made an appt for the 19th of this month. It’s a 2.5 hr trip each way but will be worth it if they can help him. I am anxious to see what they find.
[QUOTE=NowThatsATrot;5861275]
Like this?
It’s slight, and the background lines up inconveniently, but you can just see the little dip on his topline.
The longer I follow this thread the more it seems to be about my big guy. It’s been one thing after another around here and I still haven’t had a chance to get the chiro out and look at him… After a few weeks off we’re gradually reintroducing slow, stretchy work, and he’s doing much better. I still notice him parking out once in a while, and one lead is definitely stickier than the other. He doesn’t seem to be suffering but I hate to think he might still be uncomfortable somewhere…[/QUOTE]
That’s the exact look that makes me say “Check the SI!” It can be very minor, but…
My guy has a pretty smooth topline now, and any time he needs chiro is gets a little bumpy right in that area. In this photo you can just see a tiny dip. It didn’t really bother him until he took a nasty fall in turnout and it looked more obvious after, but he no longer has it at all.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/27770_617340427676_510683_33356801_5560779_n.jpg
Since posting on this thread, I did finally have the chiro out for my big guy a few times, and she agrees that it’s a troubled spot but didn’t think injections were quite necessary yet… It seemed more like general discomfort and bad muscle memory than outright pain, and like me, she would rather try less invasive routes first. He would improve for a few rides after her visits but he’s very hard on himself, mentally and physically, so the adjustments never stuck as well as they could have.
Even after seeing other injections (hocks) work well for my older guy, I’m reluctant to go for the needle unless I’m absolutely sure it’s necessary. Although I’m starting to think it might have been cheaper to just get the SI injections than all the other things we’ve tried along the way. (He came with plenty of other baggage that I’ve spent the past year working on… I’ve given him the benefit of the doubt and medically ruled out as much as I can.) At this point I just can’t gamble a chunk of change like that on a non-emergency procedure, though, not unless my vets agree to a generous payment program… If my situation changes and we do try it, I’ll be sure to check back in with this thread.
Hmmmm… wish I had read this thread months ago. Inky began bucking into the canter transition. We sent him to our trainer this month to see if she could get a handle on whether it was horse or rider. Since being there, he has not bucked, but she says he feels like ‘2 different horses’ in each direction, and we’ve noticed that he really steps under himself with the RH, not so much with the LH, and that development in his croup is uneven. I think I will have a discussion with our vet re the possiblity of SI issues.
Thank heavens for finding this thread! Going to the vet next week fully armed to get them talking about SI as i was considering kissing spine as his issues, but SI ticks so many boxes.
Can i please get the exercised as these will help whether or not he is diagnosed.
thank you everyone
pm me your email and I can send them to you
I saw this thread was recently brought back and after reading through, I have a question…
I have a horse that likely would benefit from SI injections (after reading through these responses and the various links discussing it). He always comes up sore in the SI area during chiro adjustments, and the adjustment only makes a difference for a short time before he’s back to where he was. He displays a lot of the signs of SI pain- bucking, impossible to get to really push with his hind end at any gait, tendency to just lean onto the forehand, difficulty gaining muscle in the hind end, drags right hind, now occasionally cross canters to one direction, rarely gets a clean lead change anymore or will swap back to “old” lead, impossible to canter if he isn’t super fit and consistently working on hills, would prefer to take off long to jumps (but is still VERY honest), will do an upward transition into the canter from the halt or walk if you work really hard, but is clearly not truly comfortable when he does it…all of that despite having an EXCELLENT work ethic and being very business-like- he doesn’t ever quit on you.
My question…when I first bought him 7+ years ago, he had poor training, bad habits, and wasn’t doing anything other than mostly walk/trot. His walk to canter transitions were easier then and he was easier to canter than he is now (although he wasn’t asked to use his body the same way as I ask him to do now). Still little push with the hind end, but he didn’t drag you down and wasn’t impossible to get a canter if he wasn’t super fit. Still issues with taking off long to fences, but didn’t cross canter and could do a clean lead change. Is it possible that he didn’t have the SI soreness so much then because he hadn’t ever been asked to really use his hind end, and he has it now because he’s consistently been asked to push with the hind end and work harder? So it’s developed? Sorry if that question is either too vague or has an obvious answer…just curious. He was 10 when I purchased him and is 17 now. He’s been having these issues since I started working on actual dressage work when he was 13 ish and it seems like they’ve gotten worse the more I’ve asked him to work that way.
Either way, I may consider the SI injections if they could help. I love the horse, he’s a fantastic athlete with so much scope and power to him, not to mention that work ethic that I love. It’s just hard to keep him going when there are these issues preventing him from going correctly. It’d be amazing if this were the key to getting him truly sound and happy.
Can someone post the exercises for strengthening on the forum since there are many of us who would like to know? Pleeeeeease :winkgrin:
My mare didn’t need her SI injected, but THANK HEAVENS I did find a great body worker NOW. She’s 5 years old and her SI was WAY WAY WAY out. It was adjusted and THANK GOD it had not yet fused, so there was still hope. The changes in mare’s attitude are like night and day. I recommend everyone get their horse checked in their 4-5th year before big things like this can FUSE into TERRIBLE positions.
My mare was acting like she had back or pelvic pain years ago. Chiro adjusted lumbar and SI. No improvement. I had an utltrasound and culture done. Her uterus was horribly inflamed, fluid and infection. She was also given a caslix. After treatment she was a different horse and didn’t act like she would fall down when I saddled her.
Just something to think about!
What does SI stand for please?
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;7871760]
What does SI stand for please?[/QUOTE]
sacroiliac
Okay this is a copy and paste of a word document I was emailed from CoTHer Lieslot, if I remember correctly: Below are the stretches I did religiously every single day, however at present I only do them twice a week. Not all of them are specifically for the hindend, but I figured he could benefit from some neckstretches too :).
With the stretches just make sure you don’t force the stretch. If the horse can’t do it, then don’t force the stretches, I used to say to myself, “there’s always tomorrow”.
Some of the stretches were given to Mozart by her vet and others I found here & there.
I don’t think they would hurt a horse provided you don’t force the stretch upon the horse, but to be safe you could always check with you vet.
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1. Lift up each hindleg like you do for hoofpicking and make figures of eight, 3 x
2. Lift up each hindleg and bring it forward very slowly and low to the ground, holding the limb by holding the fetlock with both hands (* see bottom). Horse will yank the leg back at some point, remember that point and ask to bring the leg forward again but stop just before the horse pulls back. At that point hold the leg. After a while horse will sink full weight of limb into your hand and give a little more stretch before putting leg down right there. Do same with opposite leg. I only do this once but try to get him to hold it for 20+ secs. (**). If horse can do this easily whilst holding, you can do the figure of eight here too.
3. Lift up hindleg and bring the leg backward by pushing out at the cannon bone just above fetlock with one hand, supporting hoof with other hand, again hold until horse stretches it down even. I do this once.
4. Stand next the horse’s hindleg and pickup the opposite hindleg from underneath horse’s body, bring it forward low to the ground and inward just past the midline and hold again until horse gives you just that little bit more stretch and put it down thereabout. If horse yanks back before release, repeat but don’t ask for that much stretch. (Ronaldo couldn’t do this one at all when I first asked of this, this particular stretch releases tension in the SI region)
5. Belly lifts, with hoofpick tickle at girth until horse lifts wither & back, then move back with hoofpick towards sheath, so entire back gets a lift, about 3x.
6. Pelvis tip & tuck. With hoofpick draw a line about 1,5 handwidths away from midline going down all the way past the dock at about 1 handwidth from dock and down to below the level of the bony protrusion. Horse should first roll the pelvis forward and as you draw the line over his gluten and then tuck his pelvis in lifting his back when you draw the line between the semitendinosus & semimembranosus. I do this about 3 times.
7. Hip push, find bony protrusion right next to tail, put palm of hand on there and lean into the horse with all your weight. Horse should figure out to push back at you. I do this for 20 to 30 seconds each side. My guy totally LOVES this.
8. Stand in front of horse and pick up a front leg, bring leg forward slowly and low to the ground, holding limb up by holding the fetlock (*). Find the position where the horse doesn’t yank back and hold again until release. Ideally horse fully stretches out frontlimb, but neither of my horses can do a fully extended front leg at present, the knee is still bend quite a bit. This one will take a while.
9. Stand next to horse and lift up a front leg holding it up in the grove of the bent knee and let the rest of the limb dangle straight down. Then lift limb upwards, so essentially you are gently lifting the shoulderblade upward just that little bit. I do this about 3x.
10. Pick up the front leg, have knee in bent position, with cannon bone & hoof pointing rearwards (as in hoofpicking), hold leg at knee & fetlock and make large figures of eight by which you can feel you are abducting the shoulder blade doing so. Again about 3 times
11. Kneed or apply stroking pressure in the grove just above the shoulderblade where the neck starts on each side. Do for as long as horse enjoys
12. Massage base of neck muscles on each side very well, so you loosen & warm up the muscle before neck stretching
13. Have some treats in your hand. Put horse square and hold treat at his mouth but move it straight out and down, so you ask the horse to go into the grazing position but doing so with his neck stretched out forward when going down, so more stretch than grazing.
14. Hold a treat at mouth and slowly bring treat to point of shoulder, so horse has to lift base of neck and round in. Once each side
15. Stand with your own back against horse’s shoulder blade and with hand furthest away from horse’s head, hold treat at horse’s mouth and slowly move it in a circle to right in front of you or even further if the horse can do so. In the end you want the horse to be able to take the treat from his hipbone, (for that you stand outwards, not leaning against the horse anymore).
16. Hindend strengthening acupressure points :
Apply pressure to Bai Hui, which is on the dorsal processes just before the sacrum, at the coupling basically, you may feel a little indent there.
Apply pressure to B40, which is in the crease just below the biceps before the hindleg starts so to speak, say you lift up a hindleg, you will see a crease that separates body from leg at the back, that’s where B40 is, apply thumbpressure for a few seconds.
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After these stretches I take him to my ring and walk a large figure of eight over a crosspole jump, about 3x.
Then we do 5 steps of backing twice.
Thereafter I ask him to do several turns on the forehand making sure he crossed the hindleg underneath his body putting it down towards the midline each time.
I also put out 6 poles, 3 rows of two and space them 2 horselength’s apart. I raise them with some small blocks and we walk a diagonal line over them, so he alternately has to raise one hindlimb at an angle. I do so 5 to 6 times.
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* I held the fetlock with my hands when doing limb stretches because I was worried about my fingers. But in theory you are supposed to hold the hoof at the bottom with your fingers. If you have a horse that won’t slam his feet down too quickly, it’s probably okay to do.
** The amount of time to hold a stretch is confusing, some say 30 secs others say no more than 10 secs and Kerry Ridgeway even talks about minutes. So I’m doing about 20 secs on all of the stretches.
I did find that some of those hindlimb stretches were a killer on my own back, so mind yourself :).
Dr. Joyce Harman with the help of Penelope Smith, a/c
