excellent working description 
of the stretches!
[QUOTE=NWDressage;5861483]
Yup, the back and SI have been severely overlooked 
I am convinced that in dressage, we will see more SI and back injections over the next ten years because issues there are more prevalent than we thought ten years ago. Furthermore, it would not surprise me if we see that many pre-purchase exams start to include radiographs of the back, and we will see a greater number of horses with Kissing Spine (because we will look for it more, not that we are doing anything to hurt our horses backs or anything like that). We will probably also see a decrease in stifle injections, for it seems that in dressage, the stifles are frequently not as stressed as the SI and most issues that were treated as stifles were probably instead SI or back issues. That all said, it is amazing what mesotherapy and back/SI injections can do for a horse :)unfortunately, joint injections bring the vets far more money than hands on therapy; "You canât do much for the hindquarters except inject the hocks and stifles; that means that vet doesnât know what to do; I have seen horses diagnosed as wobblers:eek: and given the surgery with he baskets :no:in the neck
when the original diagnosis should have been fractured pelvis; OTOH; because of the first horse diagnosed with that; though treated as a wobbler, I was able to help friends who later had a horse come in with a fractured pelvis:eek: the last time I saw the horse, he was jumping around a course at a Morven Park, Clear Round Jumping Show!
Out of curiosity, for those who have dealt with SI issuesâŠare horses generally sore when palpated over the SI area? or not necessarily?
Can SI issues present as hock issues? My 5 year old gelding has had on an off lameness in his right hind for over a year after developing a large hematoma on the thoroughpin. Ultrasounds and X-rays always clear. My vet sent these to his friend at New Bolton and nothing. Took him to a leg specialist and nothing. Resting for months and then a steroid injection allows him to be sound for a couple of months at most. Noone can figure out what is truly wrong. Our next step is blocking from the bottom up then possibly and MRI or bone scan. Should I mention the SI when the vet comes out? When he goes âbadâ he misses changes, bucks, and gets super cranky when ridden but never really shows a ton of lameness.
Could certainly be his back, S.I., kissing spine, or even a fractured pelvisâŠhard to say, but horses as we know often compensate heavily to avoid pain in another area, thus making a different area sore (ie, hocks). Have you looked into any of those things?
I have not looked into SI or kissing spine. I believe we ruled out fractured pelvis when the injury originally happened. I do know blocking the thoroughpin he goes sound. I am going to ask my vet about SI join when he comes out later this week though. Thanks!
That is odd. Thoroughpin usually does not cause lameness, itâs basically a cosmetic blemish much like wind puffs of the ankle (though it can be catalyzed by some sort of trauma originally). Sounds like he may have arthritis of the hock, exacerbated by over-using it to compensate for pain elsewhere. Oy, sorry about your conundrum 
Another thought - a common, but often missed area of pain is the elbow, and while it doesnât jump out as related to this necessarily, you never know, and so perhaps this type of thing (elbow, or something else) needs to be explored. Do you have a good racetrack vet you can consult with or have take a look at him? They often approach things differently than the sporthorse vets do ⊠because they see so much volume and variety of issues.
Nope! X-rays show beautiful hocks! No arthritis. My vet has done racetrack and sporthorse vetting. He sent all of his x-rays/ultrasound pictures to a vet at New Bolton and he had me take him to a leg specialist when the problem creeped up again and he was out of town. This is stumping all of them! From ultrasound you can still see a little fluid in the tendon sheath but nobody can figure out where it is coming from. He had 9 months off after the initial injury. Came back great. 2nd show I had to pull him out of the hack class. We injected with steroid but then he developed EPM so after 2-3 months off he was sound and we started again. When it developed again we took him to the leg specialist and he was also stumped and agreed with the steroid injection. He did fantastic at his next show but then the weekend after at Medal Finals he bucked for no reason mid-course (one of his signs that he is clearly uncomfortable on the hock) and we pulled him. He has been sitting in the field for a couple of months now and I am NOT riding him until we figure this bugger out!
We actually took x-rays of the entire leg to see if we were missing something. Beautiful x-rays all up and down the leg.
Since he had EPM, I wonder if it is manifesting itself in some neurological wayâŠ
Mysterious pain case study
Hoping to resurrect this thread. My horse has had a saga of issues over the last several months and now Iâm thinking SI. I will post updates as I find out more, but he is an interesting case study, so I thought you guys might be interested. Here it goesâŠ
In late summer he started becoming difficult to push forward, and would sometimes kick at my leg. He became grouchy and girthy and very inverted. When the leg went on, he would get nervous and his head would go into the air and his stride would get shortâlike he was moving through mud. When palpated, he was negative in his back. Had him scoped: negative for ulcers. Had him tested for tick born illness: also negative. Eventually he started buckingâBIGâmostly at the canter. (Note that his saddle was custom made for his back.) My gut told me it wasnât a behavioral issue, but I had my trainer rule that out for sure. His lameness evaluations were clean, and he only exhibited discomfort under saddle. Eventually the vet decided that I needed to bring him in for a bone scan. The bone scan lit up a few areas (although all areas were âminorâ or âvery minorâ)âwhich, upon further investigation, revealed a ligament tear in his back at the L1 region.
For the past four months he has been essentially out of workâlong lining at walk and trot, per the vetâs recommendation. However, ultrasounds are starting to look clean, and he is still exhibiting the same reluctance to move forward and kicking at my leg when Iâm in the saddle. He is especially bad tracking right. Refuses to move off the left leg, and his butt drifts to the left tracking both left and right. The vets feel that his four months off and 5 shockwave treatments have essentially healed the ligaments (the ultrasounds confirm this) and he should be asymptomatic by now. The discomfort really feels like it is in his hind end and his lameness evals are still clean. In order to figure out what might be going on, the vet blocked the area in his back affected by the ligament tear and he still exhibited the same behavior (possibly worse than it was before the bone scan)âwhich means that the discomfort we have been treating was NOT related to the ligament tear.
I went back to the bone scan report and one of the areas that lit up was the right SI. He will be having a chiro and acupuncture treatment this week and will be having his SI injected March 14. My vet is quite perplexed at this point, so I would be curious to know what you guys think based on this. Does it sound like SI? Do you think that chiro and/or acupuncture will work? What about the injection?
Taking wagers now, and Iâll report back over the next few weeks.
[QUOTE=evilc123;8545694]
Hoping to resurrect this thread. My horse has had a saga of issues over the last several months and now Iâm thinking SI. I will post updates as I find out more, but he is an interesting case study, so I thought you guys might be interested. Here it goesâŠ
In late summer he started becoming difficult to push forward, and would sometimes kick at my leg. He became grouchy and girthy and very inverted. When the leg went on, he would get nervous and his head would go into the air and his stride would get shortâlike he was moving through mud. When palpated, he was negative in his back. Had him scoped: negative for ulcers. Had him tested for tick born illness: also negative. Eventually he started buckingâBIGâmostly at the canter. (Note that his saddle was custom made for his back.) My gut told me it wasnât a behavioral issue, but I had my trainer rule that out for sure. His lameness evaluations were clean, and he only exhibited discomfort under saddle. Eventually the vet decided that I needed to bring him in for a bone scan. The bone scan lit up a few areas (although all areas were âminorâ or âvery minorâ)âwhich, upon further investigation, revealed a ligament tear in his back at the L1 region.
For the past four months he has been essentially out of workâlong lining at walk and trot, per the vetâs recommendation. However, ultrasounds are starting to look clean, and he is still exhibiting the same reluctance to move forward and kicking at my leg when Iâm in the saddle. He is especially bad tracking right. Refuses to move off the left leg, and his butt drifts to the left tracking both left and right. The vets feel that his four months off and 5 shockwave treatments have essentially healed the ligaments (the ultrasounds confirm this) and he should be asymptomatic by now. The discomfort really feels like it is in his hind end and his lameness evals are still clean. In order to figure out what might be going on, the vet blocked the area in his back affected by the ligament tear and he still exhibited the same behavior (possibly worse than it was before the bone scan)âwhich means that the discomfort we have been treating was NOT related to the ligament tear.
I went back to the bone scan report and one of the areas that lit up was the right SI. He will be having a chiro and acupuncture treatment this week and will be having his SI injected March 14. My vet is quite perplexed at this point, so I would be curious to know what you guys think based on this. Does it sound like SI? Do you think that chiro and/or acupuncture will work? What about the injection?
Taking wagers now, and Iâll report back over the next few weeks. :)[/QUOTE]
Should of started your own thread this ones 5 years old.Your not going to get the responses with an old thread.
[QUOTE=sassy45;8545705]
Should of started your own thread this ones 5 years old.Your not going to get the responses with an old thread.[/QUOTE]
Okay, good call. I love this thread but Iâll start a new one.
[QUOTE=evilc123;8545725]
Okay, good call. I love this thread but Iâll start a new one.[/QUOTE]
You can delete your post here and thread will go back to rest,iâll delete mine if youâd like also??
[QUOTE=sassy45;8545734]
You can delete your post here and thread will go back to rest,iâll delete mine if youâd like also??[/QUOTE]
K. Iâll delete mine.
Bumping up this old thread because Iâm currently at a loss for what to do with my guy.
Vet injected IRAP into his hocks for the first time in January (had been injected with steroids once before, 8 months prior) and coffins with steroids. That is his maintenance protocol based on history. Vet said hocks may need to be redone since it was first round of IRAP and she has noticed lately that some horses were needing follow up doses. Very horse dependent, so I put him back to work.
Several weeks go by and he just wasnât feeling that great behind, but it felt and looked higher up. Vet came out to do a recheck and he was slightly positive to hocks, and positive to left stifle flexions. Another round of IRAP to the hocks and one steroid injection to the left stifle.
Here we are three weeks later and no big difference. There was a slight improvement about a week after the second round of injections. Symptoms are: Unwilling/unable to really step under himself tracking left at canter. Constantly switching which hind leg is resting. Not being overly thrilled about being on the bit, but not naughty/bucking/kicking out, just grumpy. Not sore to back palpation. Top line doesnât look quite as good as it should since horse has been in correct/consistent work for some time.
Today for the farrier he was grumpy about having his LH done, and when farrier went to pick up RH he did NOT want to fully stand on LH, which is not normal for him. I called the vet office when he was lame under saddle (not shoes, farrier came back and checked) and she is going to try and get out this week. Unfortunately this will probably be the third $400 vet bill Iâve had this yearâŠ
SI? Stifle? Something else? I trust my vet and she is very thorough and is the practiceâs go-to for injections, so he is in good hands. Just curious what others may think.
I would start your own thread, maybe - lots of people will see the date on this thread and ignore it, you might miss out on good tips.
With that being said IME, hocks are almost always secondary to something higher up. Did you take rads of the hocks? Stifle? Or just go off flexions?
I learned the hard way to never inject unless you have a clear picture of the joint beforehand. Oddly, lots of horses DONâT need injections - they needed something else looked at first, like saddle fit, their SI, KS, etc.
