SI injections and hind end issues

[Mel2599]

Hi there. I’m fairly new to this site, but I’ve read many threads on here and figured this might be a good place to get some more advice on my mare’s issues. Apologies for this being a long post. I feel I should probably give some background.

So, I have a 10 year old Fjord. I’ve owned her for 4 years, and she’s always had the drafty issue of being very heavy on the forehand- doesn’t steer well, won’t go on the bit, etc. My eventing trainer and I have tried nearly everything to get her to understand.

Recently, we realized that she was very out behind and had our vet come out (specializes in sport horse injuries) who diagnosed her with bad hock arthritis most likely due to being slightly cowhocked and having gained weight and not working for a year due to health problems I was having :(. She’s been losing weight, though. The hocks were done this summer. We had a lesson with a new dressage trainer in August and focused on half-halting to get her off the forehand. She felt like a completely different horse- she turned on the forehand and on the haunches beautifully, tried to round herself (she was somewhat out of shape). The thought was that she had always known what to do because of groundwork, but had trouble translating it into the saddle.

Shortly after we starting practicing what she had just showed us she could do, she started to feel awful again. She wouldn’t use her hind-end, wouldn’t turn, wouldn’t respond to half halts, tried to evade the bit. When asked to go forward, she would, but would throw her head up and stiffen her back. We had the vet out again and vet felt that my horse had a lot of stiffness in her pelvic area and SI probably because her hocks had been out for so long. So we decided to inject the SI last Thursday (ultrasound- guided. Very difficult because horse has a lot more dense muscle than average in that area). Mare was given turnout the next day and we could resume easy walk-trot work on Monday and gradually increase to her normal work load by the end of the week. It’s been 9 days since her injections and she feels the same if not worse than before. She seems to loosen up at the canter now, but will not turn or stay round for her life. I’m worried that she’ll hurt herself again by not carrying herself properly. My questions are: Is this normal after SI injections, how long do they usually take to kick in, could there be other problems, and could having her hocks injected and thus allowing her to use her back properly have caused her SI soreness- as in, she was asked to use an area of her body that was never really used before and hurt herself because of that?

And finally, I just want to say that I don’t believe any of this is behavioral. She’s a sweetheart of a horse, tries her hardest to please, and seems to only become resistant when she’s uncomfortable.
Thank you all.

[asterix]

It can take up to two weeks in my experience but it can dramatically help.
Of course there could be other things going on bc of long term discomfort. I’d give it a bit more time.
Next steps could include a bute/banamine test to see if she improves, a session with a good bodywork vet (Chiro/acupuncture), and a bone scan.

[quietann]

Asterix is right – improvement can take weeks after SI injections. I also hope and pray that OP’s vet used ultrasound to guide the needle, because it’s a very tricky joint to inject. My vet also prescribes a week off work, hand walking only, turnout fine after 2 days as long as the horse is quiet, and then a very gradual return to full work.

I like the idea of a bute/banamine trial if the horse hasn’t improved soon.

[riopony]

I would give it some time. It can take a good three weeks to see results. I read a whole bunch of the posts on SI injections on here and many people said that it took 16 days or so to see real results.

Good luck!

[Personal_Champ]

My mare had her SI injected September 10th. She still isn’t quite right. Vet said to give her the winter off - which I usually do anyway as I don’t have an indoor - and to start her back up this spring.

She was already seen by the chiro/acupuncture vet prior to injection. We did bute trials and it helped, but not 100%. Her Lyme titer, pulled at the same time, was inconclusive - so we are repeating that in a couple of weeks.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=Personal Champ;8374527]
My mare had her SI injected September 10th. She still isn’t quite right. Vet said to give her the winter off - which I usually do anyway as I don’t have an indoor - and to start her back up this spring.

She was already seen by the chiro/acupuncture vet prior to injection. We did bute trials and it helped, but not 100%. Her Lyme titer, pulled at the same time, was inconclusive - so we are repeating that in a couple of weeks.[/QUOTE]

LOVE your vet’s little “hedge!” I can guarantee you that practically ANY horse will show significant improvement after “the winter off”–particularly if turned out 24/7. We used to call that “Dr. Green.” If she comes back sound, it was most likely the TIME, not the injections, that had anything to do with it.

Back before there WERE “injections,” we used–wait for it–TIME OFF! Which worked at least as well as anything else. If the beast COULD be fixed, six months to a year would fix it. After that–what you’ve got, you’ve got.

[beau159]

Have you also had her checked by a good chiro? If not, I would definately do that.

[candico]

I have had better and more immediate luck with Sarapin for the SI area, but second finding a good chiro.

Do you have a video? Some horses, IMO, are better off not going “round” in the traditional sense, but you do still want to get them off the forehand. There is a Haflinger that is a bit more on the drafty side around here that has done very well in lower level dressage tests that doesn’t really go “on the bit”, but is ridden in a very balanced and correct way for his particular conformation which the judges like to see vs forcing him round where it really is not quite right for his particular build.

[Mel2599]

[QUOTE=quietann;8373535]
Asterix is right – improvement can take weeks after SI injections. I also hope and pray that OP’s vet used ultrasound to guide the needle, because it’s a very tricky joint to inject. My vet also prescribes a week off work, hand walking only, turnout fine after 2 days as long as the horse is quiet, and then a very gradual return to full work.
I like the idea of a bute/banamine trial if the horse hasn’t improved soon.[/QUOTE]

My vet did use ultrasound. It was a bit difficult since my mare has very thick skin and a lot of dense muscle, but everything went great. Best vet I’ve had in a while. Thanks for your input.

[Mel2599]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8374775]
LOVE your vet’s little “hedge!” I can guarantee you that practically ANY horse will show significant improvement after “the winter off”–particularly if turned out 24/7. We used to call that “Dr. Green.” If she comes back sound, it was most likely the TIME, not the injections, that had anything to do with it.

Back before there WERE “injections,” we used–wait for it–TIME OFF! Which worked at least as well as anything else. If the beast COULD be fixed, six months to a year would fix it. After that–what you’ve got, you’ve got.[/QUOTE]

I’d love to give her time off, but I’ve been strongly advised against this by two different vets and my trainer. Once she’s out of work, she doesn’t do so well with her hocks and she turns into a stressed out basket case without a job

@beau159;8374782

Have you also had her checked by a good chiro? If not, I would definately do that.

My vet has been doing chiro for years. We actually tried that first. It worked a for a bit and then didn’t hold.

[QUOTE=candico;8374842]I have had better and more immediate luck with Sarapin for the SI area, but second finding a good chiro.

Do you have a video? Some horses, IMO, are better off not going “round” in the traditional sense, but you do still want to get them off the forehand. There is a Haflinger that is a bit more on the drafty side around here that has done very well in lower level dressage tests that doesn’t really go “on the bit”, but is ridden in a very balanced and correct way for his particular conformation which the judges like to see vs forcing him round where it really is not quite right for his particular build.[/QUOTE]

I don’t have a video at the moment. She seems to enjoy being “on the bit” when she’s physically capable so I’m not sure she’s really being forced, but I’ll definitely see if we can work on just being more balanced. Thank you.

[Mel2599]

I just wanted to thank you all for your advice. My girl seems to be doing better since I posted this question. We’ve been cantering more and that has been helping her to relax her back and neck.

[Personal_Champ]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8374775]
LOVE your vet’s little “hedge!” I can guarantee you that practically ANY horse will show significant improvement after “the winter off”–particularly if turned out 24/7. We used to call that “Dr. Green.” If she comes back sound, it was most likely the TIME, not the injections, that had anything to do with it.

Back before there WERE “injections,” we used–wait for it–TIME OFF! Which worked at least as well as anything else. If the beast COULD be fixed, six months to a year would fix it. After that–what you’ve got, you’ve got.[/QUOTE]

Yep, she’s out 24/7 all the time anyway. He said if the injection worked, keeping her in work would be best to keep the muscling around the SI strong. However, since it didn’t work as well as hoped, she likely has more inflammation and rest would be the best for her. And since I’m not in any sort of hurry, I’ve got the time.

[Victorious]

Not to be uncool, personal champ, but your vet doesn’t seem to mind spending your money! However, I do get the frustration that comes with murky soundness issues and TO is always an easy option. It’s a lot easier to see a horse recovering in a field being a horse than in a stall constantly being poked for sedation or injections. The SI injection I had done on my horse didn’t do much at first and I was kind of bummed. He is the exact opposite of your horse, OP, except in the kind and willing department. However, my vet said to do a lot of collection work for the first month-like sitting trot, collected canter, poles etc and I’m not kidding-after a month, that horse was like butter! I think the results take a while with the SI, but I absolutely felt it. Good luck with your girl!

[candico]

I found a video of that Haffy that you might enjoy. She consistently scores around an average of 70% and I believe she is now getting ready for second level. The rider is adorable, but you can see that although the horse is not traditionally round, he is not plowing around on the forehand either. She does say that walk pirouettes are now helping get a better roundness.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8OtL-SPFKQ

[Personal_Champ]

[QUOTE=Victorious;8376201]
Not to be uncool, personal champ, but your vet doesn’t seem to mind spending your money! However, I do get the frustration that comes with murky soundness issues and TO is always an easy option. It’s a lot easier to see a horse recovering in a field being a horse than in a stall constantly being poked for sedation or injections. The SI injection I had done on my horse didn’t do much at first and I was kind of bummed. He is the exact opposite of your horse, OP, except in the kind and willing department. However, my vet said to do a lot of collection work for the first month-like sitting trot, collected canter, poles etc and I’m not kidding-after a month, that horse was like butter! I think the results take a while with the SI, but I absolutely felt it. Good luck with your girl![/QUOTE]

Hey, my bill was $225 for a full lameness workup, ultrasound SI injection, and a Lyme titer. I’m absolutely fine with that. Since my mare will tolerate stall rest but doesn’t enjoy it, that’s not an option for me - and let’s not even mention the mare’s severe, violent needle-phobia.

I’d rather give her time off and movement - she’s earned retirement here with me whether she comes performance sound again or not, and she is totally 100% pasture sound. I have one beautiful foal out of her I’m having a blast with and will be starting next year.

[stargzng386]

Have you tested for Lyme disease? Failure to hold a chiropractor adjustment is one of the symptoms my horse showed.

[mfglickman]

We did a bone scan following hock injections and blocking of fetlocks, suspensory, and stifles on a horse that was just NQR behind, not refusing to work but not as happy to move off of hind end, push off for jumping, etc… Turned out to be the hip joint. Never would have found that without the bone scan. YMMV but wanted to put it out there. Hope she makes a full recovery!!!

[Lord_Helpus]

17 posts and not one suggestion of saddle fit or ulcers! A new COTH record.

My young jumper was weak and sore behind. The chiro said it was Rt hind. But she found that the L front was also sore due to the trot being a diagonal gait; since he was favoring his rt hind, the l. front had to do more work.

So I got the vet out to see about injecting (he had never been injected nor needed it before, but I thought it might be an option). The vet said it was right stifle and L hock (although I could barely see anything on the flexions).

But, having gotten the vet out for his opinion, I went with injecting those joints. The dressage rider who flats him between jump schools said she felt a HUGE improvement. He was softer in his front end and tracking up much better behind.

LSS: Stifles can also be the culprit, or at least a contributing factor, and also consider front end problems which might have been caused by the hind end pain.

Oh, and don’t forget the saddle fit and ulcers.

[Haven_tJumpedInALongTime]

[QUOTE=candico;8376837]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8OtL-SPFKQ[/QUOTE]

Can I just say I’m in love with the adorableness?