Sick Dog - Long

[Logical]

Izzy my distemper survivor has presented with a puzzling problem. Last year she ‘crashed’ on me. She stopped eating and socializing with me. She had dark colored splotches on her belly and her gums got dark as well. Blood-work showed that her white cells, red cells, and palates were very low. Giant palates were seen on the slide. Her red cells were responsive. Everything else was normal on the blood-work results. Diagnosed with pancytopenia and immune mediated disease. Treated with prednisone and minocycline.

As she recovered the splotches and dark gums went away. Blood-work pulled 3 months after she recovered (6 months after she ‘crashed’) showed normal on everything. Recently the splotches came back, treated with low dose prednisone for three days, and they disappeared. Repeat this three times. I noticed that each time before the splotches came she would not be as excited for her kibble. It looked like she would look at her kibble and want to throw up. Then she would eat a couple of bites and walk away letting one of the other dogs have it.

This entire time she has been eating 4Health. The other four dogs in the house are fine. Finally, this last time I switched her to Nutro Wild Frontier Woodland Trail and FreshPet beef and buffalo. She seems to have really come back to her old self. Been on the new diet for 3.5 weeks. Vet wasn’t sure if kibble played a part or not but to leave her on this diet and see if it happens again. BUT it is driving me up the walls trying to figure out what it is in the 4Health that is causing/caused this problem because I am convinced it is the kibble. (Although, I am open to other possibilities.)

When on the 4Health we rotated between different flavors. Izzy hated the whitefish, duck, pork, turkey, salmon, and chicken. She would start off eating her whole amount and then taper off quickly to just a few bites. She tolerated the lamb; ate whole amount longer than above flavors before tapering off to just a few bites. She would eat the beef almost completely; only occasionally leaving some behind. As I noticed her not eating certain flavors, I stopped buying them.

This is not a case of picky eating. The first time she got sick and stopped eating altogether we were offering her anything and everything to get her to eat something. Beef liver: ate it for one day. Hamburger patties: ate it for one day. Canned dog foods: would eat 1/2 can that day and refuse the rest. Other high end treats like that and what ever table scrapes were given to her and she would only eat a little bit. When she got better she started eating the kibble on her own again.

Any ideas? Suggestions?

[Action42]

It sounds as though your dog is experiencing relapses in a possibly immune mediated thrombocytopenia (low platelets) or possibly more pancytopenia. The red splotches you describe as well as the dark gums are petechiation or ecchymoses which is evidence of free bleeding within the skin. This happens when platelets, specifically, are low or they don’t have adequate clotting factors. This also means she is at a drastically increased risk of bleeding spontaneously elsewhere in her body which could be life threatening.

Immune mediated diseases often need long term immune suppression to live a normal life, short courses of low dose steroids may not be sufficient. Other drugs like long term prednisone or azathioprine may be recommended. Sometimes they can be weaned down from these drugs, but not always.

Please talk to your vet asap about other possible courses of treatment. This is not likely to be food related at all given her history and needs to be addressed immediately! This is my advice as a DVM myself.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=Logical;8735500]
Izzy my distemper survivor has presented with a puzzling problem. Last year she ‘crashed’ on me. She stopped eating and socializing with me. She had dark colored splotches on her belly and her gums got dark as well. Blood-work showed that her white cells, red cells, and palates were very low. Giant palates were seen on the slide. Her red cells were responsive. Everything else was normal on the blood-work results. Diagnosed with pancytopenia and immune mediated disease. Treated with prednisone and minocycline.

As she recovered the splotches and dark gums went away. Blood-work pulled 3 months after she recovered (6 months after she ‘crashed’) showed normal on everything. Recently the splotches came back, treated with low dose prednisone for three days, and they disappeared. Repeat this three times. I noticed that each time before the splotches came she would not be as excited for her kibble. It looked like she would look at her kibble and want to throw up. Then she would eat a couple of bites and walk away letting one of the other dogs have it.

This entire time she has been eating 4Health. The other four dogs in the house are fine. Finally, this last time I switched her to Nutro Wild Frontier Woodland Trail and FreshPet beef and buffalo. She seems to have really come back to her old self. Been on the new diet for 3.5 weeks. Vet wasn’t sure if kibble played a part or not but to leave her on this diet and see if it happens again. BUT it is driving me up the walls trying to figure out what it is in the 4Health that is causing/caused this problem because I am convinced it is the kibble. (Although, I am open to other possibilities.)

When on the 4Health we rotated between different flavors. Izzy hated the whitefish, duck, pork, turkey, salmon, and chicken. She would start off eating her whole amount and then taper off quickly to just a few bites. She tolerated the lamb; ate whole amount longer than above flavors before tapering off to just a few bites. She would eat the beef almost completely; only occasionally leaving some behind. As I noticed her not eating certain flavors, I stopped buying them.

This is not a case of picky eating. The first time she got sick and stopped eating altogether we were offering her anything and everything to get her to eat something. Beef liver: ate it for one day. Hamburger patties: ate it for one day. Canned dog foods: would eat 1/2 can that day and refuse the rest. Other high end treats like that and what ever table scrapes were given to her and she would only eat a little bit. When she got better she started eating the kibble on her own again.

Any ideas? Suggestions?[/QUOTE]

It sounds like your dog is experiencing nausea. The timing makes it seem related to her immune disease. (sorry,I tried to quote the last sentence of the second paragraph but it did not work.)

Have you considered a second opinion from a vet. internal medicine specialist? Or a vet specializing in autoimmune disorders? They might have something to offer.

[horsenut_8700]

Please listen to Action 42! Her eating habits are a symptom of her disease, not the cause of the issue. Immune mediated bleeding/clotting disorders are life threatening and I would personally recommend consulting an internal medicine specialist.

[Beckham03]

I also completely agree with Action. Your dog needs a specialist and a long term treatment plan…possibly hospitalization. This is nothing to mess around with.

[Logical]

[QUOTE=Action42;8735599]
It sounds as though your dog is experiencing relapses in a possibly immune mediated thrombocytopenia (low platelets) or possibly more pancytopenia. The red splotches you describe as well as the dark gums are petechiation or ecchymoses which is evidence of free bleeding within the skin. This happens when platelets, specifically, are low or they don’t have adequate clotting factors. This also means she is at a drastically increased risk of bleeding spontaneously elsewhere in her body which could be life threatening.

Immune mediated diseases often need long term immune suppression to live a normal life, short courses of low dose steroids may not be sufficient. Other drugs like long term prednisone or azathioprine may be recommended. Sometimes they can be weaned down from these drugs, but not always.

Please talk to your vet asap about other possible courses of treatment. This is not likely to be food related at all given her history and needs to be addressed immediately! This is my advice as a DVM myself.[/QUOTE]

Action42:

THANK YOU!! Not that I like your answer but it helps to look at other possibilities than what I was thinking. The vet we see now isn’t a specialist and though I trust him immensely, he even admitted he wasn’t sure. I don’t know if this will make a difference or not but the splotches weren’t red. The first time I noticed them, they looked like grease spots. I tried washing them off with a wet rag but they wouldn’t come off. They started small and very light in color and got darker and bigger but never crossed her center line on her belly. They are like bruise color. Blueish/Blackish in color. ??

Now wouldn’t the above mentioned conditions show up on later blood-work? She had the first normal 6 months after her ‘crash’ and then when the splotches reappeared this year, another blood-work was done that was also normal. In fact, all her blood-works except for that one have been normal.

I guess I will be looking for a specialist as I do not like the guy here in town. He got very angry with me when I refused to do a surgery on a lab for wobblers. He said it wouldn’t make him better, so why would I spend $3,500?

[csaper58]

Try here? www.vetspecialists.com

Will jingle for you and your pup.

[Zu_Zu]

Jingles & AO for Izzy ~ ((hugs)) for her family ~

[Action42]

OP - the splotches from bleeding can range from red to pink to blackish/bruise-like so don’t rely on the color too much.

You would think that further bloodwork may show a low platelet count, but do you know if the numbers were truly “mid range” normal or possibly low normal? That may make a difference. Also, tick borne disease can cause some intermittent red cell/platelet issues so testing for those as well may be warranted.

You may also want to ask your vet to run a coagulation profile on your dog, this may help rule in/out some disease states. I think a visit to an internal medicine specialist is not a bad idea.