Sigh - more designer breeds

[DownYonder]

Rather than bumping up the other thread where designer breeds were discussed, I thought I 'd mention that I have recently seen two posts on FB regarding “new” and deliberate crosses.

One was a from a doodle breeder who bragged about how big her operation was and how long she has been doing it, and how many different crosses she was breeding. Golden Doodles, Labradoodles, Cockapoos, Pekapoos, Maltapoos, Yorkiepoos, Berniedoodles, yada-yada. And told someone looking for a Berniedoodle she had sold the last litter before they hit the ground so didn’t have any available at the moment, but she was expecting a Pyrdoodle(!) litter in a week or so.

The other post was from someone looking for intact Corgis and Shetland Sheepdogs for the specific purpose of “creating a new breed.”

I do not understand these people, or the people that pay $$$$$ for these mixed breed dogs. AKC currently recognizes 197 different pure breeds. Surely those buyers could find something on that list that strikes their fancy.

[Marla_100]

Doesn’t bother me at all if people want to create their own dog mix. Many Northern working dogs are a mix of 3 or 4 working breeds which were purpose bred to get the best of the best for winter
sports and work.
Why do people get so upset over this practice? I hear many purebred breeders complain but then I suspect it’s because they believe it takes money out of their pockets.

[S1969]

@Marla_100

Why do people get so upset over this practice? I hear many purebred breeders complain but then I suspect it’s because they believe it takes money out of their pockets.

No it’s because most of them are crap breeders who take breed two mediocre specimens and don’t conduct any health testing, and then charge $2-3K for a mutt.

If you’re going to pay $3K for a dog, at least get it from a reputable breeder, and heck, for that price - get some serious titles in the pedigree.

[Marla_100]

There is definitely a market for these mixed breeds or they wouldn’t be so popular and sell so quickly. Many, I believe sell for much less than 2-3,000. more like $750. or so.
And some people do not put any value on titles. Or conformation championships.
There’s many great pet quality dogs that are mixed breeds. Some are also great farm dogs.
Many are great family dogs. Not everyone wants a show dog or conformation speciman.
I still don’t see the problem here. Live and let live.

Heck most of our pleasure horses are mutts too. Good enough for many people. there’s definitely a niche here that the mixed breed dogs are filling.

[S1969]

@Marla_100

There’s many great pet quality dogs that are mixed breeds. Some are also great farm dogs.
Many are great family dogs. Not everyone wants a show dog or conformation speciman.
I still don’t see the problem here. Live and let live.

Most purebred dogs are not conformation specimens.

But, in theory, they are predictable - the buyer has an idea of the temperament, exercise needs, health and lifespan. Things that should matter to pet owners, or they end up with the wrong dog in their family.

There is nothing predictable about most of these mixes, so buyers really have no idea what to expect.

That said, I think many pet owners aren’t prepared for any dog they buy, even the purebred ones. They impulse buy, and this is one of the things that keeps the ‘rescue’ market thriving. Dog turnover.

But - any breeder that doesn’t conduct health screenings in this day and age deserves to be condemned. It’s inexcusable.

[Texarkana]

The reason these “doodle” crosses sell like hot cakes is because they make such good house pets. I didn’t understand it until I experienced it again and again.

AKC papers do not make a breeder any more or less reputable. AKC papers also do not make a dog suitable for a person’s lifestyle.

I will never understand why people pay thousands of dollars for dogs. People spend more on dogs than I do on racehorses, the sport of kings! Yet I also don’t understand why someone breeding one of the 197 AKC recognized breeds is superior to someone breeding what buyers want, especially when the latter is more likely to fit into their lifestyle leading to a better quality of life.

[OverandOnward]

@Texarkana

AKC papers do not make a breeder any more or less reputable. AKC papers also do not make a dog suitable for a person’s lifestyle.

Exactly.

Given the damage that breeding for show has done to so many registered dog breeds, it’s true that being an AKC breeder doesn’t mean anything for finding a sound, healthy dog. It will be more about the individual breeder than about registration papers.

I also don’t see the problem with “custom” dog breeds. If a happy dog is in a home that is happy with the dog and caring for it well, that’s a good thing.

[S1969]

@Texarkana

The reason these “doodle” crosses sell like hot cakes is because they make such good house pets. I didn’t understand it until I experienced it again and again.

I think just as many people could find examples where this is just not true. A double-coated, intelligent breed with hair that doesn’t shed is a nightmare for lots of people. They need exercise, training, and a lot of grooming.

@Texarkana

AKC papers do not make a breeder any more or less reputable. AKC papers also do not make a dog suitable for a person’s lifestyle.

Of course not. The papers only prove what the breeder says; the quality is not defined by the paper, or whether the dog will make a good pet.

My breed is supposed to be an all-day hunter. Literally. The standard says “A compact, closely knit dog of medium size, a leggy dog having the appearance, as well as the agility, of a great ground coverer. Strong, vigorous, energetic and quick of movement.”

They are designed to be leggy and a great ground coverer on purpose. So they can hunt without getting tired. They are not a great pet for lots of people, and crossing one with a poodle and saying it will make a great housepet is absolute false advertising.

And again - without health testing, the offspring would be prone to genetic disorders that are predictable and the risk can be minimized - like hip and elbow dysplasia, congenital eye disorders, cardiac and thyroid issues. Most mixed breeders don’t perform basic health screenings, even though it is relatively inexpensive.

[Texarkana]

@S1969

@Texarkana

The reason these “doodle” crosses sell like hot cakes is because they make such good house pets. I didn’t understand it until I experienced it again and again.

I think just as many people could find examples where this is just not true. A double-coated, intelligent breed with hair that doesn’t shed is a nightmare for lots of people. They need exercise, training, and a lot of grooming.

@Texarkana

AKC papers do not make a breeder any more or less reputable. AKC papers also do not make a dog suitable for a person’s lifestyle.

Of course not. The papers only prove what the breeder says; the quality is not defined by the paper, or whether the dog will make a good pet.

My breed is supposed to be an all-day hunter. Literally. The standard says “A compact, closely knit dog of medium size, a leggy dog having the appearance, as well as the agility, of a great ground coverer. Strong, vigorous, energetic and quick of movement.”

They are designed to be leggy and a great ground coverer on purpose. So they can hunt without getting tired. They are not a great pet for lots of people, and crossing one with a poodle and saying it will make a great housepet is absolute false advertising.

And again - without health testing, the offspring would be prone to genetic disorders that are predictable and the risk can be minimized - like hip and elbow dysplasia, congenital eye disorders, cardiac and thyroid issues. Most mixed breeders don’t perform basic health screenings, even though it is relatively inexpensive.

Believe me, I’m not condoning bad breeding.

Nor am I saying crossing a poddle with something automatically makes a desirable animal.

But reputable doddle breeders produce pets that are desirable for a reason. Breed fads come and go, but the labradoodle/goldendoodle one has persisted for quite a few decades.

My irritation lies in the fact that some people automatically proclaim them to be nothing but designer dogs carelessly bred to be impulse bought by the ignorant at an over-inflated price. There are many breeders carefully producing these crosses for families who have done their homework.

[GoodTimes]

Unfortunately the answers come down to education.

Educated buyers would put a stop to unscrupulous breeders. Educated buyers would reduce the number of dogs that end up needing rehomed.
Educated buyers wouldn’t buy pups from parents that aren’t health tested.
Educated buyers understand that there can be somewhat predictable differences between different lines within the same breed, and can discuss this with a reputable breeder.

All of that applies to both purebred and mixed breeds.

[Scribbler]

Honestly what ends up in our local shelters are pit bull types and crosses. Not loads of golden doodles. So I’m assuming these dogs function as pets.

[luvmyhackney]

Lots of rescue labradoodles in my area with matted fur, hyper active, destructive behaviors.

I don’t find them that cute and think a poodle is way easier as a good family dog. The labradoodles I’ve seen in my previous neighborhood are way high energy and very athletic. Many had odd behaviors and were extremely nervous dogs.

[Mosey_2003]

I wish they would at least stop using performance and LGD breeds for these cute crosses. You don’t need a high energy, high drive dog mixed in for a housepet/family dog. It’s not good for the dogs or the people to deal with. The LGD mixes make me sad especially, that’s wasting good working dog genetics.

[Texarkana]

@luvmyhackney

Lots of rescue labradoodles in my area with matted fur, hyper active, destructive behaviors.

I don’t find them that cute and think a poodle is way easier as a good family dog. The labradoodles I’ve seen in my previous neighborhood are way high energy and very athletic. Many had odd behaviors and were extremely nervous dogs.

Define “lots.”

A cursory search of Petfinder for my state has produced 4. For comparison, it also produced 20 poodles and over 600 labs. Pit bulls were over 700.

I’m not trying to be snarky. I believe you. I hear people say this but have never actually seen it.

I have been on a local doodle rescue’s waiting list for over 2 years now and nothing.

ETA: I actually clicked on the pet finder listings and they were 4 postings for the same dog out of state: a labradoodle cross. So really, there are none in my state.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

I don’t mind thoughtful, carefully bred cross-breeds–the doodles, etc. What’s really bothering me lately is the attempt to “miniaturize” various breeds… turning good working breeds into fashionable accessories.

It happened with Australian Shepherds and the latest one I’ve seen is Miniature Huskies. I’ve got to think that breeding for miniaturization creates health problems–not to mention completely divorcing the dog from its working purpose.

If someone gets the idea of creating miniature border collies, I’ll just be beside myself…

[GoodTimes]

Anecdotal of course. But locally I see a lot of rehoming on Facebook of young dogs, mostly doodles, labs, and goldens. I hypothesize that in my area these are the easiest puppies to impulse buy in my area. These dogs seem to get snapped up quickly, they’re cute and look friendly in pictures.

The shelters and rescue groups tend to have more shepherd types. Often northern dogs that have been brought to the area for adoption.
Small mixes as well. You can often tell from the pictures they they have dental issues.

Ontario has had a ban on pits for many years, so there aren’t many of those types.

Strays are non existent here.

[luvmyhackney]

Facebook pages, group pages, new mom groups, poodle adoption group.

I’ve probably seen 20ish plus or so just in January in my small subset on Facebook. I haven’t seen any in the shelter as they get pulled crazy fast by rescues.

I’m in North Virginia area and they are the “in” dog at the moment

[Texarkana]

@luvmyhackney

Facebook pages, group pages, new mom groups, poodle adoption group.

I’ve probably seen 20ish plus or so just in January in my small subset on Facebook. I haven’t seen any in the shelter as they get pulled crazy fast by rescues.

I’m in North Virginia area and they are the “in” dog at the moment

I’m in Maryland so it’s odd none of that comes up in my searches. But I’m not in your local FB groups.

I see the same thing both you and @GoodTimes pointed out— they get snapped up quickly when advertised in social media groups. But usually people are selling them for the same over-inflated price they were purchased for. And it doesn’t seem like anyone has any trouble doing so.

[mommy_peanut]

@Texarkana

The reason these “doodle” crosses sell like hot cakes is because they make such good house pets. I didn’t understand it until I experienced it again and again.

AKC papers do not make a breeder any more or less reputable. AKC papers also do not make a dog suitable for a person’s lifestyle.

I will never understand why people pay thousands of dollars for dogs. People spend more on dogs than I do on racehorses, the sport of kings! Yet I also don’t understand why someone breeding one of the 197 AKC recognized breeds is superior to someone breeding what buyers want, especially when the latter is more likely to fit into their lifestyle leading to a better quality of life.

WOW. I have to STRONGLY disagree with your statement about them making good house pets.
Every single doodle (regardless of mix) that I have met has been some shade of a neurotic mess, many with poor coat quality, which turns into a nightmare as most pet owners don’t have a clue about proper coat maintenance.
I’ve heard more often than not, directly from the owners, that they wish they hadn’t gotten the doodle dog.

As for AKC, it is simply a registration organization. It does not mean a dog will be well bred or not.
It does typically mean that the dog will have many/most of the expected characteristics of their breed.
Or that is comes from a reputable breeder.
That is on the buyer to do their due diligence & research.

[Texarkana]

@mommy_peanut

@Texarkana

The reason these “doodle” crosses sell like hot cakes is because they make such good house pets. I didn’t understand it until I experienced it again and again.

AKC papers do not make a breeder any more or less reputable. AKC papers also do not make a dog suitable for a person’s lifestyle.

I will never understand why people pay thousands of dollars for dogs. People spend more on dogs than I do on racehorses, the sport of kings! Yet I also don’t understand why someone breeding one of the 197 AKC recognized breeds is superior to someone breeding what buyers want, especially when the latter is more likely to fit into their lifestyle leading to a better quality of life.

WOW. I have to STRONGLY disagree with your statement about them making good house pets.
Every single doodle (regardless of mix) that I have met has been some shade of a neurotic mess, many with poor coat quality, which turns into a nightmare as most pet owners don’t have a clue about proper coat maintenance.
I’ve heard more often than not, directly from the owners, that they wish they hadn’t gotten the doodle dog.

As for AKC, it is simply a registration organization. It does not mean a dog will be well bred or not.
It does typically mean that the dog will have many/most of the expected characteristics of their breed.
Or that is comes from a reputable breeder.
That is on the buyer to do their due diligence & research.

It’s odd our experiences are so different, but that’s dogs.

I had a pet sitting business. I worked as a small animal vet tech on and off. My entire extended family owns them (most from the same breeder).

I am not a dog breed person. When I take on a new pet, I head to the shelter or offer my home to a pet that needs one. But I’d take a doodle in need of a home in a heartbeat (for a normal adoption fee, not thousands of dollars).