Sorry those people got scammed but good on them to do something about it by reporting it. And good on that media outlet to run the story. Maybe it prevented other potential buyers from making the same mistake and helped educate the general public a little bit.
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The art and sport of breeding purebred dogs is waning. Sorry. 
It could be worse - go watch a pointing dog Field Trial. Their numbers are shrinking rapidly - it’s not just the purebred sports part, but it’s the decline in gun sports as well.
The reality is that people still like DOGS. So breed clubs should step up to be inclusive - welcoming members who have rescue dogs of their breed, and not shunning them like red-haired step children. And embracing performance sports of all kinds - the field trial folks in my club truly despise the Barn Hunt events, and think that allowing them at our national events will somehow ruin the breed. (You know, because just knowing that someone else competes in Barn Hunt is likely to negatively affect a bird dog…??) Still trying to work that one out.
There are lots of events that don’t require purebred registration or good conformation, but would invite people into breed clubs and participation. And maybe those people would then be more inclined to choose a well-bred puppy the next time around.
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JRT Trials are a lot of fun! We did a few of those as family day fun. Our terrier’s first time trying the lure across the pond race - they opened the box they ran down to the pond, he took one quick look at the boys in the rowboat and ran around the pond to their shoreline destination and waited for the lure there! The organizer said he wasn’t the winner but he was the smartest one there.
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Thank you - this made me smile !
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I wouldn’t think that at all.
I would expect good breeders to be very particular about who their puppies go to, and what sort of people come onto their properties and into their homes.
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I purchased another Standard Poodle from a lovely breeder. Still paid less for a known bloodline and genetic testing than a doodle price.
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I think the problem is that people decide they want a dog. They want the dog now, they want a cute puppy and they don’t want to go through more hoops than adopting a child. You used to be able to go to a shelter (or the Walmart parking lot) and pick up a cute puppy. Not any more. The shelters are full of Pitts and nothing is under 4 months of age. At least with a designer dog, you have a rough idea of size. Doodles are not flooding the shelters so they must be doing ok as pets for the most part. I’m not saying it’s right, but doodle breeders found a market and are successful at exploiting it.
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This. This is what is exasperating about this conversation.
If one is not in the world of purebred dogs, it is intimidating to say the least to try to find a puppy, if I’m just someone or family who wants a nice dog as a companion and a pet. The public has absolutely no idea where to start. They know nothing about breed organizations. If they find a list of breeder ads, the ads don’t make much sense to them, and they have zero idea if it’s a puppy mill or a reputable breeder.
Everything that has been mentioned in this thread about how breeders keep to themselves and place puppies through their own networks is why the general public does not buy purebreds from reputable breeders.
It’s because of the system created by the breeders themselves, with limited availability and especially no outreach or lines of contact with the public.
So why all the harumphs about the pubic not buying purebreds from good breeders when the good breeders have made it impossible for the public to do so – and have no thoughts of changing?
And frankly the “regular” dog owner wannabe is worried that breeders look down on and judge people like themselves for not being in the world of purebreds, and for not knowing as much as the breeder. That makes them uncomfortable about reaching out to make contact. It makes me uncomfortable about trying to contact a reputable breeder who is likely to brush me off as unknown and unnecessary.
Unless reputable breeders of purebreds make an effort to reach out to the public, communicate and help the public feel comfortable approaching them, nothing will change about who buys from reputable breeders. That’s reality.
If, as has been pointed out, reputable, conscientious breeders don’t have that much puppy supply and have no trouble placing puppies through their connections, then there is nothing for the general public to buy from them anyway.
So all of this rant and kant about “people who won’t buy a purebred” is really pointless when the situation is one created by the reputable breeders themselves. The GP has nothing to buy except from the doodle-breeders and the shelters and so forth. If you aren’t going to help them, then stop the bashing and just let them get on with it.
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Yes.
And even some of the breed rescues are insane wrt their requirements.
Fortunately not all of them, or I wouldn’t have gotten my last 2 dogs.
But I had a PB Irish setter and a Golden that I got solely through “connections”.
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This is literally what parent clubs are for. Educating the public about the breed is one of most parent clubs’ main missions.
My breeder friends do try to educate the public, but let’s be real - they work other jobs, they compete with their dogs, they have families, etc. They don’t make a profit by selling puppies. And a lot of them breed once a year. Or less. Most of them are not going to have a massive web presence, and some don’t have one at all. Websites are work to maintain and cost money.
If someone really wants a purebred dog, it’s not really that hard to find a breeder - not anymore. Not with social media. You can find purebred groups on Facebook and you can find the parent club for each breed on Facebook as well.
My clubs’ website is crappy but there is a section about the breed and they link back to AKC for tips on finding a good breeder, etc. The Breeders of Merit listed at the beginning of the listings are all well known in the breed. So between Facebook, AKC, and the parent club, you could find a breeder in 5-10 minutes if you really wanted.
@OverandOnward
Or you could do what people used to do in the days before everything was online, you could go to a dog show, walk around, observe, and introduce yourself to breeders. In many areas of the country there are shows available within a reasonable distance at least every month or so.
By the way, conscientious breeders think “limited availability” is a good thing, especially since most of them will take a puppy back if it doesn’t work out.
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Sure, maybe you could find a breeder in 5-10 minutes, but that’s not the same thing as finding a breeder willing to sell you a puppy.
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Something I’ve just started wondering about now while reading these posts:
Given that breeders would rather place their puppies within their familiar circle instead of advertising to the general public, and given that breeders are all getting old, what will become of these breeds as the familiar circles shrink? Who will bring in new blood, human as well as canine? Will the gene pool shrink along with the familiar circles?
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I don’t think it is true that a breeder won’t sell a puppy to someone outside their familiar circle. It certainly isn’t true in my breed, where medium/large litters are common and the dogs make good family pets (if appropriate exercise is provided).
What good breeders don’t want to do is sell someone a puppy that just decided they needed one without doing any research into the breed, into owning a dog, who has no idea what vet they would use, doesn’t have a plan for where the dog will be while they are at work, etc. And add to that the ones who only want a certain color, gender, and don’t want to drive more than 2 hours to get it.
And who can blame them?
By the time a breeder has puppies on the ground, it is likely they are already sold. Not because you have to be on a waiting list for years, but because if they don’t start trying to sell the puppies they might end up with too many puppies without homes at 8-10 weeks. No one wants that situation - it’s bad for many breeds and by then the dam is often fed up with them.
Gestation is only 8 weeks, and they are best suited for placement around 8 weeks after that. It’s not a lot of time. Buyers need to plan ahead a little bit.
That said - I could hook someone up with a breeder today who would sell you a puppy to be born within the next 2 months. You just have to be a little patient, ask around, and be willing to take a road trip. It might be farther away than 2 hours. And, then you would have to demonstrate that you were prepared to be a good home for an active dog that will live 12-15 years.
My breed is not rare, but it’s not incredibly popular. So, I suspect there are a lot of breeds that would be similar. Obviously some breeds that tend to have very small litters might be harder to obtain. And rare breeds, of course.
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I’m not a dog show person. I’m not looking for a show dog. I don’t even know how to find a dog show.
No one in the general non-dog-show public knows about any of this. And I would not be comfortable accosting strangers who have no idea why I am there as an uninvited guest.
The breed associations / breeders have zero effort to get such information out to the people they say they want to educate and steer away from “designer breeds”.
The dog show would be a waste of time for me anyway because they aren’t selling me one of their puppies, an uninvited stranger who accosted someone at a dog show. Their puppies are going into their breed network. That’s fine. But maybe they can stop disrespecting people who couldn’t get one regardless.
And how are breeders letting the public know that people wanting a nice pet dog should go to a dog show they know nothing about and introduce themselves to complete strangers, who won’t place their puppy with an unknown person anyway?
Do you see how this scenario is imaginary and unrealistic?
And not for nothing, we are talking about a LOT of random strangers who are interested in owning a dog. Do dog shows really want so many wandering around asking about buying a puppy? It’s pretty clear the breeders aren’t interested in doing anything more than exclaiming to each other and blaming the people they don’t want to deal with anyway.
If the breed associations and breeders truly cared about better educating the general public and getting better quality puppies out so that there is less of a market for so many doodles and designers, it would be happening. The simple truth is that the breeders don’t want to do that, they want to stick with their insider group.
The simple truth is that the puppy mills, doodles and designers are filling a hole that the breeders aren’t interested in touching. That’s fine, the breeders have no obligation to do that, but maybe they can realize the scope of the situation instead of carrying on endlessly, publicly, pointlessly, complaining and complaining about pet owners and their pets.
Limited availability means the rest of us aren’t getting one of the purebreds anyway. The supply is a few million dogs short of the demand. And that’s the end of that story.
So why keep complaining and complaining about where those millions of owners are getting their dogs?
Since those dog owners aren’t going away, and it would take a major culture shift to change their approach and attitudes, maybe just stop alienating them further with all the public disrespect?
Is there any chance that the dedicated breeders and breed enthusiasts ever see that their disrespect toward these owners and the dogs they buy, and the breeder’s lack of any plan or outreach, are part of the problem, not the solution?
I believe the saying is “be the change you want to see”. But it’s been outlined thoroughly in this thread that purebred breeders have no intention of changing, they are happy with the way things are. So maybe just stop going after other people and their dogs because they don’t fit some ideal that the purebred people aren’t going to help them with anyway.
It would be better if more dogs were bred with more care and thoughtfulness, but the purebred breeders are not interested in helping fill the gap in the demand for pet dogs. That’s what it comes down to. That leaves a huge gap for the “greeders” to step into. So from one point of view, the greeders didn’t start it, the quality breeders started it, when they closed their networks and limited their dogs.
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Actually no, I don’t see how that scenario is imaginary or unrealistic. It’s exactly how I met a great breeder whom I got my last two dogs from.
But I do understand that it’s easier to sit around and complain than to try something new and unfamiliar that might involve a little work.
By the way, no one said that breeders only sell dogs to people they already know. That’s been refuted several times above. But if you go to a show and meet a breeder–well, then they know you.
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My cousin got her Dalmatian by introducing herself to a breeder. My cousin had found out that the breeder was not only interested in conformation showing but encouraged her puppy owners to do “performance” events. My cousin had shown her family’s Siberian Husky to only an AKC Companion Dog title, but she had been a member of the local dog club since she was 16 years old.
Domino was only “pet” quality, but my cousin kept the breeder updated on all of the titles and working things (like carting) that Domino earned and learned. So much so, that when the breeder had a “puppy” (a year old) returned, she contacted my cousin to see if she would be interested in him. (Unfortunately, my cousin was unable to take the dog.)
My cousin has, in the last few years, talked to breeders both at shows and over the phone. She is interested in some unusual breeds—Boykin Spaniel, American Water Spaniel, etc.—and she is “meeting” those who have them. When her last “foster” (sweet pitbullX that belongs to her son’s friend, but my cousin has had “temporarily” for the past 2+ years) passes on, she will get a puppy of whatever breed she has decided upon.
(An aside–One of our dog club members wanted a Corgi, checked out and contacted a breeder, and when weaned, drove from Michigan to Oklahoma to pick the puppy up.)
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That scenario does not seem imaginary or unrealistic to me. It seems a very good way to see well-bred dogs of the breed a prospective buyer is interested in and learning who the breeders and handlers are.
I think it is bench shows where spectators are able to meet the dogs and their people?
If I wanted to go to a dog show to see my favorite breed I would Google shows and see if there were any near me.
If I were in a position to buy a dog of my favorite breed I would Google all shows and try to go to several. I would also research the breed club and see if there were any breeders I could contact to ask if I could visit.
These days it is not hard to look up almost any interest on the Internet. Even before the Internet, there were dog magazines to research, breed manuals at libraries, and vets to ask.
I am not a people person, I am very shy around strangers, and I get very anxious traveling on my own. But if I were in a position to buy a dog I would get wherever I had to go to meet some.
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You seem really angry about this.
But everything you’ve posted above is just not true.
It’s fine if you don’t want to go to a dog show or show your dog, but it’s entirely untrue that show breeders don’t sell to pet homes. There simply are not enough show homes available for most puppies; it’s not that popular.
My middle dog was one of 12 and only 3 went to show homes. This was from a top breeder in the country. My other breeder had a litter born in October from last year’s Westminster winner and a famous dog (frozen semen) and even still 3 of the 7 puppies went to pet homes. My most recent puppy was one of 7 and 4 went to show homes but that wasn’t by design; it just happened. But they actually advertised widely to sell the last puppy because they didn’t have them all sold. She went to a pet home.
I don’t know why you believe that breed clubs have made zero effort to get information out to “the people” - have you gone to their websites?
They can’t exactly do a door to door campaign, but if someone wants more information it is out there.
As for dog shows - they are spectator events. Shows like Westminster are literally designed for people to actually go and look at all the breeds and ask the owners questions. And AKC sponsors huge “Meet the Breeds” events at Westminster, the AKC Nationals and a lot of other large shows.
It might be intimidating to go to a dog show the first time but people do expect to be approached by spectators and many kennel clubs publish a program for spectators to follow along and best practices to ask questions. (e.g. not when the person is walking into the ring, ask before petting, etc.) Some shows even have a little “introduction to dog show” event.
If you’re in the Northeast and ever want to go to to a show - let me know. I’ll meet you at the Big E in West Springfield sometime and be your guide. I love it when spectators want to pet my dogs because you can’t mess up their hair and my dogs find it boring. So if someone will pet or play with them I’m thrilled.
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I actually think both “sides” have valid points. DH is an avid bird hunter. He hunted once behind a SM and decided that was his next breed. So, he searched around on the parent club page, went to a NAVHDA training session, met a few breeders and we waited for his puppy to be born.
When I lost my dog - just a dog to be w/ me on the farm - I wanted a puppy pretty quickly so went through a rescue and selected a medium sized wash and wear dog who is a good pet.
I think both markets exist - one for people who just want a pet and one for those who want a dog w/ specific traits for a job.
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