I’m looking at the Cane Corso for my next dog, One of the breeders I’m considering has titles before and after most dogs names.
I’m glad to hear this about Dobermans. When I was following the dog show world, show Dobies were elegant, high-strung, goofy dogs with little resemblance to the intimidating serious athletes used for K-9 and Schutzhund.
Dobies seem to have lost out to Mals for that population. Good for the Dobes!
I still feel that the Doberman is much better for personal protection vs straight igp work. They are so much about ‘their’ people, that it comes naturally for them. Nice to know a breed can still perform the work that they were developed for.
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My point was that you should post the photos if it’s so obvious.
And I don’t think that Brittanys are the exception. I think a lot of breeds really haven’t changed much at all other than perhaps grooming for shoes. Which is very evident.
I can’t post pictures as I don’t have a photo-sharing account anywhere. However here are some links:
Discussion of the evolution of the English Bulldog
I could go on but I have to go do my barn chores now.
I don’t even count the Australian Shepherd, because nearly from the beginning of its show-dog career beginning in the 1970’s the breed began to split into purely working lines and the tiny-founder-base show lines, which continues to this day. Although they are crossed in the name of “versatility”, they are basically unrelated breeds with the same name and a vaguely similar appearance.
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The article about Corgis describes how the queen crossed Dachshund and Corgis, so it doesn’t really give a good side by side from an early Corgi to a modern one. What exactly is the difference?
As for the bully breeds - yes, I think we can all agree that they are breeds that have been significantly altered over the last hundred years or so.
The English Bulldog article has a photo of what is very clearly a French Bulldog …as well as a drawing of a Bull Terrier from 1919 with a very Roman nose, so I’m not sure it’s a trustworthy source of anything. But I will agree that the modern English Bulldog is a dog that has been changed to be essentially useless and has health problems that go along with that change. It certainly cannot be considered a “fighting dog” based on it’s conformation.
It’s always the same 3 or 4 breeds that are discussed – GSD, bulldog, I guess we can throw in the Bull Terrier…what else? Oh, usually the “show” Border Collie and how useless it is…??
There are hundreds of breeds that have not changed significantly - not just the Brittany.
And - I have no idea, but it is possible that the parent clubs for Bulldogs and other breeds are trying to reverse trends for exaggeration. Again - maybe not, but those of us who aren’t involved in the breed don’t really know if there is an effort or not. I hope so anyway.
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I’d imagine there’s a cleaving of interest - those that want to win in the show ring, and will therefore produce what it takes to do that, and those that love the breed itself and want to eliminate the health problems.
Anything being bred for exclusively a look and not much else is going to be rife with problems (mentally, physically, etc.). Horses are not exempt - Egyptian Arabians anyone?
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Source? Is this the GSD national champion or something? (Which would mean that’s the ideal dog?)
Is the dog from 1960 a show dog or a field dog? And, it’s not stacked the same, so if it was, would it look like the 2009 dog if it was? Same with the 1925 dog, although I can see that it is straighter.
But…how about this?
Is this a change in the Brittany breed standard?
No. It’s the national field dog and the national specialty show winner from the same year. (Guess which one is incorrect).
Breeding isn’t the same as breed.
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I mean, that really is the crux of the matter isn’t it? What is the ideal dog? Because in many breeds (GSDs included), there is a divergence between the show and working lines. Why is that?
I think it’s more interesting as a video, and as you stated the ones in the photo aren’t stacked similarly. This goes after both sides of the pond so at least americans aren’t alone. 
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There are obviously horse breeds/lines with the exact same problems.
I posted the corgi page because of the group picture of the Rozavel dogs. Those were the main founders of the Pembroke Welsh Corgi. No dachshund in them, they look like the small Welsh farm dogs that they are. Notice the coat. The biggest change in American lines came when imports from the UK became possible in the 1980’s sometime. My first corgis were very much the “big dog in a small package” advertised in the breed club glurge. Then I stopped breeding, and bought a pup of imported lines as everyone was all gaga over them. This was an entirely different kind of dog, a plush fur toy, yappy and overexcitable, perfect for that ever-alert gaze at a piece of liver. The coat went from a workmanlike double coat to a super densely-undercoated dog that lent itself to backbrushing for a dynamic show look. The legs were no longer defined as having different bony parts to them, exchanged for the new straight little thick posts look.
Since I love the working dog temperament – steady, loyal, ever-helpful, staunch – it was a grave disappointment. I did try one more time, thinking I had something of an anomaly. No, I didn’t. This was when I made the switch to the working-type Aussie.
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The divergence in type in breeds is almost entirely in those breeds that are still used for something, and also have a strong group of show-only breeders. When you breed for an ideal working dog, but the dog is never really tested at its work, much less selected primarily for its working ability, you get a dog which is a group’s idea of what a working dog should look like, not a dog which actually has that talent. And this appearance, unanchored to any actual working test, can move quite far in odd directions.
Meanwhile, the people who still use that breed quickly see that the only way to keep the work in their dogs is to sever their lines from the show lines. This is explicit in Aussies, Border Collies, some gun dog breeds (there are still working Irish Setters, they look nothing like the bizarre show Setter), and a few others. Then there are Labs, which resemble the Quarter Horse pattern, with different lines being bred for a number of specific uses. Field Labs are rangy and eager, not much like the blobs blearily waddling around the show ring.
Since showdoggers are not selecting AWAY from the original talent, it often dies a slow death, with some individuals retaining ability generations from their original use. I once knew an extremely gifted Bearded Collie, a master herder with all the moves, though all the other Beardies I saw attempting to herd were absolutely useless at the job.
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You make some good points, and I particularly like your description of the modern show bred and even pet-bred Labrador Retriever. The local Lab club holds its annual speciality nearby and for some years, I dropped by to observe. It was enough to totally turn me off from the breed - the puppies were of course very cute, but the adults reminded me of obese pigs. Ich.
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Portuguese water dogs. The multiple breeders I know, including my dog’s breeder, do the breed ring, agility, rally, obedience and water work. My dog’s parents have so many titles they barely fit on the page. A bunch are now also doing scent work.
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Good to know! I think a certain kind of person gravitates toward this handful of breeds, the kind that loves to compete in many venues with their dogs , not just trot them around a small lawn on a string. This energetic ambitious type attracts similar others. There is a strong subset of the show Aussie people who are like this; although no show Aussie I’ve ever seen has any herding ability to speak of, they are still very athletic and bright and love to please, so do well in lots of other venues. Shelties are another.
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It’s a broad enough statement that you can drive a semi through it.
Yes, there are some breeds that have chased the limits looks & structure wise. The common “ruined” breeds people talk about are GSD, pugs, boxers, bull terriers, and english bulldogs. Most breeds haven’t done this.
Sight hounds have mostly seen minor changes in the heads, my belgians have gotten a little lighter in bone in the show lines but are virtually unchanged, and most of your “ancient” breeds look nearly identical to what they were back when egyptians were painting them on walls. Form also follows function and, as the primary function changes (see poodles), the definition of ideal form also changes.
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While the show lines may have changed, depending on geographic location.
The working lines have remained the same for the most part, again slight variations depending on geographic location.
The SV & USCA are both working to do away with the exaggerated/overdone conformation that has been plaguing the showlines for some time now, as well as penalizing breeders/dogs that are oversized.
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Wouldn’t it be nice if breed judges for both horses and dogs hewed to the size standard!
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