I completely agree with all of this.
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Well most of the PWDs I’ve ever seen are a much more reasonable size than the doodles I’ve seen, like 45 lbs vs 75 lbs. My friend has a Bernerdoodle who must be more like 90 lbs. She adores him (he’s a big curly chill dude, really charming), and I have to say, if you want a poodle but way mellower and much bigger, that would be a good cross to go for. She had a series of Standard Poodles so she went in with her eyes open, anyway. She is in her 80’s and didn’t think she could handle the energy of a Standard any more. So there’s logic to a few purchases anyway.
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I’ve had about a dozen PWDs… two of my females were appx 45#, but the others were all around 52-55. Males were 55-65. The one thing about them besides intelligence is high energy. Lots of extra energy coupled with a wild type of intelligence that is a) manipulative and b) will seek their own ‘adventure’ if you don’t provide enough stim. Mine were all working dogs so i never had destructive problems, but counter-surfing is a real thing in this breed. They can levitate onto your counter top pretty easily (when they’re young-ish)
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Does not sound like a dog for neophytes, really!
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my very first dog ever was one. I’d say it just takes a certain kind of individual. If you’re an active, energetic person with a kind of personality that enjoys a bright mind as your ‘second’, well, a PWD might just be a perfect match for you!
I saw a flyer near my work for a backyard breeder who was selling golden doodles and cavoodles. She claimed to be a “registered breeder” (the only registry I can think of here in Australia is the state dog breeder registrar, so I sent her a DM on Instagram asking what her supply (identification) number was. She promptly blocked me. 
Needless to say, I’m happy to report her to the state so they can follow up.
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OMG, perfect description. My brother has one.
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This sounds like a hideous cross!
Labs are fine to train. Biggest mistake people make is using food to train labs - that just gets them focused on the treat. It works but if you want to really get their drive out and about, train with praise or a toy - I worked this out when watching my flatmate train her rescue lab in scent work. PARTY PARTY PARTY when he found the scent really improved his drive. (Yes, act like a lab when your lab gets it right 
.) You also need to exercise them enough - about the same as a border collie from my experience and we have BCs and Labs together. It works well.
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I do know several cattle dogs that are successful not on a farm full-time.
Albeit, they are failed farm dogs - in NZ, we have a “Retired Working Dog rehoming” group. Not all dogs are “retired” due to age or infirmity - some are just because they are not interested.
A friend got a 2 year old for agility - that was a fail but he is an Obedience Grand Champion now.
A friend of mine paid $15k for a 2 year old NZ heading dog bitch - with one puppy from her first two litters going to the breeder. This was at a “Ready to Run” dog sale in Southland, New Zealand. He went there deliberately to buy a good bitch to replace the one he had just dropped off at her retirement home.
This bitch (a farm dog) was very well trained for sheep, cattle, goats and alpaca - a heading dog is a cross but there is a lot of BC in it as they have a strong eye as well. She is a very valuable part of his farm workers and will work with most of the workers -mainly so they can open the gates for the stock to move! Farmers in NZ tend to have more dogs and less humans working on a property.
No, not all farm dogs are genetically tested EXCEPT in the crucible of actual farm work. As with other reputable breeders, they dont breed a dog without physical stability and ability to work and learn.
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That is a lot to pay for a dog.
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But not for five years wages for three ranch hands, which is about what one good dog replaces.
The annual Red Bluff Bull and Gelding Sale in California is also the premier auction for working stock dogs; it follows one of the toughest trials in the country. This year’s top dog went for $50K, and the next down for $21K. Now, these are wealthy ranchers who are going for bragging rights as much as a useful dog – the other dogs were more in line with your friend’s purchase.
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The dog could also probably replace either a couple of horses or 4-wheelers. Plus the offset on taxes for the purchase.
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Wow! That’s incredible! The famers and ranchers I know are small time. There’s no way they could afford that much for a stock dog.
These would be ranchers who measure their ranches in square miles. Different out there.
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Many years ago we paid the princely sum of $700 for a wellbred and forward Aussie pup. That doesn’t seem like much now but at the time, for us, it was a chunk for a dog. But that dog could run up the sidehills to gather sheep for me and hold a gate and guard the kids/house and push cows. He ended up being worth every penny and more in country that I couldn’t saddle a horse and go (cuz toddlers in tow) and had to do so much off a 4 wheeler or out of a truck. The ranch was measured in sections and he covered every square foot of it at one time or another. We’ve never paid more than $300 for a dog before or since but he was worth it.
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Top price for a Border Collie bitch was £28,455 in 2021. The price for most BC puppies from a reputable breeder is about £700-1500. But many of the best sheep dogs are sold privately and quietly between a select group of shepherds and farmers and the prices are kept quiet. For years the people working the dogs refused to sell them to the general public and one never saw them as domestic pets.
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Could wish that was still true.
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That’s in line for a fully trained dog that will work for 5 years or so. Heck, I’ve looked at puppies that are $5K or more in certain breeds because the parents are titled in various disciplines.
Like what?
Just curious. To get a $5K pricetag in my breed it would be a dog in training (for example a started field dog) that had field placements already OR a titled dog being sold for breeding purposes. A puppy from even the most accomplished sire/dam would be outrageously priced at $3K+ unless you were looking for something specific – e.g. a specific sire that was only available via frozen semen because it was deceased, for example. Typical price is $1500-$2500 from top breeders.
But - my breed is not terribly uncommon, and tend to have med/large litters, so that is definitely a factor in price. My middle dog was one of 13 puppies. Yikes! His breeder nearly had a heart attack.
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