sighthound owners?

[EKLay]

Just hoping for some feedback from other sighthound owners.

Current puppy is a sighthound (Ibizan Hound) and I love the staff at our clinic and have been going here for quite a while with all our other pets, but they have been very upfront that they don’t have much experience with sighthounds.

Not a problem, I do my research well, and have worked at clinics before, so made sure to explain on his first visit that I’d like all his shots split up and wanted to just do the standard shots for our area, not the optional/extra ones.

Breeder was fantastic and gave us a copy of all his vet records from her vet, so we had all that to hand over to our clinic. They were extremely impressed with the records, remarked multiple times about how detailed they were, etc.

Kinead checks out with flying colors on all visits except when he got his last bordatella booster last week. The vet said he heart a slight heart murmur (1-2/6) that hadn’t been present before, wanted to keep an eye on it, and suggested a referral to a cardiologist for an ultrasound if it hadn’t cleared up by about 6 months. Saw the vet again today for his rabies and vet says the heart murmur is still there.

We spoke with the breeder and she said that vets who are not familiar with sighthounds can frequently diagnose normal-for-sighthound hearts as having a murmur, because sighthound hearts sound different. She explained it as a combination of big heart + deep/narrow chest + low body fat can make things sound “off”, when that’s completely normal for a sighthound. I’ve read similar things all over the internet, but there don’t seem to be any studies on sighthound puppies that discuss this. Can anyone point me to any articles or studies that I could give my vet on this topic?

I’d really rather not shell out $600+ on an ultrasound if his heart’s completely normal and this is only being brought up because our clinic isn’t used to sightounds. As fascinating as it would be to watch a heart ultrasound, that’s an expensive test when there are no symptoms.

He has absolutely no other problems and is a completely healthy, very high energy puppy otherwise. My thought is that since Kinead has no symptoms and this seems to be a ‘thing’ where sighthound hearts sound abnormal to vets that aren’t used to them, I’d rather wait and only do the ultrasound if we were to notice symptoms. He’s from a pretty active family with no heart issues, and this breeder’s dogs are very competitive in lure coursing, so I feel like this would have been weeded out/noticed in some of her other dogs if it was really something to be concerned about.

This clinic does tend to recommend a very high level of care as a rule, so it is not unusual for them to present/lightly push every diagnostic possible, though they are polite if you decline.

[Mallard]

We have retired racing Greyhounds and their hearts are different.
Not sure about other sighthound breeds.
Greyhounds also have very different blood and thyroid values.

Here is a link to info on Greyhounds from Dr. Couto, the leading Greyhound vet in the world (?) , but other sighthounds are mentioned.

http://www.coutovetconsultants.com/blog/are-sighthounds-really-dogs.html

[Houndhill]

You might want to keep your eye out for any health clinics connected to dog shows or offered by all-breed or specialty clubs (Cavaliers especially) in your area. Often they will have board-certified cardiologists offer echocardiagrams for screening breeding stock. I just had an Irish Wolfhound echoed at a specialty show for $125.

It might be worth it for your peace of mind. Some of the sighthound breeds do indeed have some cardiac issues, although most of the common ones (atrial fibrillation, cardiomyopathy) do not typically develop until a bit later. We usually echo everyone beginning at age two, annually if possible. (Irish Wolfhounds)

[S1969]

I agree about looking for a clinic; although I know that they are sometimes hard to get into. But I’d really be surprised if you had to pay $600 for a cardiac ultrasound…we had one for our dog once and I’m positive it wasn’t that expensive.

Definitely wait the 6 months and let him grow; sometimes puppies have little “murmurs” that disappear anyway (or so I’ve heard my breeder say), so I would imagine a lot of times it is because they are small and growing. In 6 months, let your vet listen again, but if they still think there is a murmur, I would get the ultrasound. Call around to see where you can have it done and for how much. It’s not difficult, and doesn’t require any sedation or anything…I’d expect to pay $200 or so, but not $600…(barring other problems).

[S1969]

I agree about looking for a clinic; although I know that they are sometimes hard to get into. But I’d really be surprised if you had to pay $600 for a cardiac ultrasound…we had one for our dog once and I’m positive it wasn’t that expensive.

Definitely wait the 6 months and let him grow; sometimes puppies have little “murmurs” that disappear anyway (or so I’ve heard my breeder say), so I would imagine a lot of times it is because they are small and growing. In 6 months, let your vet listen again, but if they still think there is a murmur, I would get the ultrasound. Call around to see where you can have it done and for how much. It’s not difficult, and doesn’t require any sedation or anything…I’d expect to pay $200 or so, but not $600…(barring other problems).

[Simkie]

Pictures? No thread about a puppy is complete without pictures

Can you have the breeder’s vet listen to the puppy? Or start with just a consult with the cardiologist and have that person listen? I don’t think there’s any reason to jump straight to an echo, but I’d want someone with more experience to take a look.

[Houndhill]

Yes we want pictures of the adorable Beezer Baby!!

Some of my IW friends also have Beezers, they all seem very entertaining!

[Bicoastal]

COTHers demand photos of a rare breed puppy! And how do you pronounce Kinead? I’m stumbling on it.

[EKLay]

Here’s some pictures. He’s hard to get good shots of, as he’s rarely still long enough! The last one is one of the stack pics the breeder would send out every week, of him at 7 weeks. He’s 15 weeks now, and is going through a very awkward stage, all legs and nose and paws.

Good to know about the clinics, I’ll check around for one of those. We have, unfortunately, confirmed the price as $600 for the echo, more if he were to need sedation to be still enough, as he is very squirmy and doesn’t stay still well! This is apparently the cost for the procedure and having a cardiologist do the procedure and interpret the findings. I told our vet I wanted to at least wait until 6 months, which he was fine with.

The breeder’s vet is a couple states away from us, otherwise having them listen would be a great idea.

The sound our vet is calling a murmur is transient, and popped up at 14 weeks - had not been noted before that by either the breeder’s vet or our vet. I can hear it at the clinic, and occasionally when he’s at home and very worked up about something, but before/after regular exercise or if he’s calm you can’t hear a thing. It’s always up high in the left armpit area too, which does coincide with the anecdotal info I’ve been reading about “normal” for many sighthound hearts. His pulse/respiration recover very quickly after any kind of exertion, and he’s just really a very exuberant, goofy, active puppy!

We’re going to show him and get into lure coursing later - got signed up for a ring handling class with him as I’ve never shown dogs before. I think the woman that teaches the class has a Beezer also, so I’ll probably talk with her about which vet she uses and see about getting a second vet to listen.

His name is pronounced kin-aid, slight emphasis on the last syllable. We tend toward odd pet names, I guess. Thank you all for the input, it’s helpful!

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/AnimalChronicles/10629739_10153239843142788_969198948522566120_n_zpsb2b3d4c2.jpg

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/AnimalChronicles/10629739_10153267470212788_8346140836859727203_n_zps796b1e2c.jpg

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag159/AnimalChronicles/10579981_10153188744402788_7749344869724394384_n_zpse499c99f.jpg

[S1969]

If you’re going to show him, definitely look for shows that are sponsoring things like eye and heart clinics. The one I was at over the summer had heart evaluations for $30, Doppler for $185 (so…yes, I guess my $200 estimate is low if $185 is their discount rate…still surprised at $600 though).

He’s adorable. Are you showing him yourself?

[MrWinston]

I totally agree with HH. You can also look for Doberman specialties that might have heart testing clinics. Unfortunately, Dobermans are affected by DCM way too often. If there is a Vet University near you, you can sometimes take advantage of clinic days they have for heart testing. It’s usually much less expensive. Best of luck with your adorable new puppy.

[QUOTE=Houndhill;7818272]
You might want to keep your eye out for any health clinics connected to dog shows or offered by all-breed or specialty clubs (Cavaliers especially) in your area. Often they will have board-certified cardiologists offer echocardiagrams for screening breeding stock. I just had an Irish Wolfhound echoed at a specialty show for $125.

It might be worth it for your peace of mind. Some of the sighthound breeds do indeed have some cardiac issues, although most of the common ones (atrial fibrillation, cardiomyopathy) do not typically develop until a bit later. We usually echo everyone beginning at age two, annually if possible. (Irish Wolfhounds)[/QUOTE]

[Houndhill]

Kinead is seriously adorable!!! And very handsome!!

If you can find a cardiologist who is experienced in doing large sighthound echoes in non-hospital settings, the experience can be very nonstressful. The wonderful Dr. Bill Tyrell has done the IW ones at our specialties for years, he does them with the hound standing, and without clipping. He crawls around on his knees! He managed to do 30 IWs in one day last month. I bet it didn’t take 10-15 minutes, including taking the pictures and writing the report! Also including an ECG. The hounds all love him and are very cooperative, plus the owners are right there holding them.

I believe Dr. Janice Bright is at Colorado State vet school, she has also done them for us the same way. Maybe she would be available at clinics in your area?

I bet you could get Kinead to stand still for someone like that in a situation like that. If he could be enticed to stand still long enough for those stacked photos (I see the can of enticement!) and if you are going to be training him to show in conformation, I bet it would be very possible to do the echo without sedation.

I have seen echoes done in a specialty vet clinic, with the dog lying down after being clipped, and those seemed to be much more stressful for all concerned.

Anyway, he is darling, and I am sure you are going to have a blast with him! It is probably nothing, but I know I would want to be sure. Although it is unusual in such a young puppy, young sighthounds (Scottish Deerhounds, Irish Wolfhounds, Greyhounds, and Salukis that I can think of cases offhand) do sometimes die suddenly of cardiac issues with no previous symptoms.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=S1969;7818749]
If you’re going to show him, definitely look for shows that are sponsoring things like eye and heart clinics. The one I was at over the summer had heart evaluations for $30, Doppler for $185 (so…yes, I guess my $200 estimate is low if $185 is their discount rate…still surprised at $600 though).

He’s adorable. Are you showing him yourself?[/QUOTE]

I forgot, my $125 echo was partially subsidized by the Irish Wolfhound Foundation, they even do eight year olds and older completely free!

I have paid closer to the $185 (though I think maybe a little less) at an all-breed clinic, as S1969 mentions.

[EKLay]

Yes, I’ll be showing him myself - should be fun! Thank you for all the nice words, he is pretty special. Hubby is joking about getting him a winter blanket that reads Adorable^n. I’ve been very surprised by some of the reactions we’ve gotten from random strangers in public about him though - wow! Had no idea there were such nasty people out there. Never gotten any nasty comments about our other dog, so was really unprepared for that.

I’ll definitely look into some of those resources too. If we could get a sighthound specialist, that would be great!

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=EKLay;7819171]
Yes, I’ll be showing him myself - should be fun! Thank you for all the nice words, he is pretty special. Hubby is joking about getting him a winter blanket that reads Adorable^n. I’ve been very surprised by some of the reactions we’ve gotten from random strangers in public about him though - wow! Had no idea there were such nasty people out there. Never gotten any nasty comments about our other dog, so was really unprepared for that.

I’ll definitely look into some of those resources too. If we could get a sighthound specialist, that would be great![/QUOTE]

Sympathize with the nasty comments!

When I was 12 or 13, and walking a five month old IW ( truly an unfortunate age for this breed, boney protuberances, skinny body, leggy) I had someone actually cross the street to tell me that she was the ugliest dog they had ever seen. I just said, " Thank you very much" and continued on.

But, these are not the calendar cute cocker spaniel type puppies many people are used to.

But, like fine wines, they are an acquired taste!

[alto]

@Houndhill;7820005

Sympathize with the nasty comments!

But, these are not the calendar cute cocker spaniel type puppies many people are used to.

BUT he’s GORGEOUS!!!

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=alto;7820022]

BUT he’s GORGEOUS!!![/QUOTE]

I know, right?!

[Rudy]

1. $600 for an echo is ridiculous. For a boarded cardiologist I usually see them run from $150-350 but never have I seen them at six even in some giant cities. Geez…

2. Please please please get an echo done on your beautiful pup. If it turns out to be something unpleasant you will absolutely kick yourself over it. I do not care what breed they are and what breeders say about their heart sounding ‘different’…you do not want to be the owner that I got to work with a few weeks ago. Beautiful 8 month old purebred working breed with severely distended abdomen (massive amounts of fluid), heart murmur, and suffering from end stage heart failure. The murmur was noted at 3 months old but the owner elected not to have an echo done and she overall appeared healthy until the last week of life when she turned in to a balloon. She was such a happy puppy right up to the end.

[pegasusmom]

I took a look around and came up with www.greyhoundadoption.com This group Is Colorado Greyhound Adpotion and might be able to point you in the direction of vets with sighthound experience.

[Bicoastal]

[QUOTE=EKLay;7819171]
I’ve been very surprised by some of the reactions we’ve gotten from random strangers in public about him though - wow! Had no idea there were such nasty people out there.[/QUOTE]

What kind of comments? Like Houndhill’s experience? (and what a troll to behave that way to a child! :mad:)