Signs of Ring Sour at Horse Shows

[50ShadesOfHay]

So I have a lovely Dutch WB mare that is 6 coming 7 that has impeccable ground manners (kind as can be in the stall/cross ties/leading/standing at shows/longing/loading). Great at home in and out of the ring and riding out alone or with company, but at shows she has started to not want to go into the ring for her over fences rounds… If she has a really good lead into the ring she is usually ok, but without it she will try to avoid going into the ring, back up etc.

I do not want this to escalate into a more dramatic situation or a dangerous one.

She has very good flat work (moves forward on the bit, is supple, and has great lateral work) and jumps around a course of fences. Showed last year about 1 to 2 times a mo. and this year started at about the same. I try to keep things interesting for her, riding different patterns/figures, changes in direction, ground polls, transitions, etc.

Wanted to see if anyone has dealt with this and how they worked on this issue? She only does this at shows and never at home… Does it both with me and trainer.

My idea is to work her mostly out of the ring, and then making the ring the place where she wants to be (ie. treats, little work, and pats in the ring). Basically switching around the dynamic.

[Ibex]

It sounds like she just does this at shows…? Are these multi-day shows and is it right from the first day, or does the behaviour start a few days into showing??

[50ShadesOfHay]

[QUOTE=Ibex;8607405]
It sounds like she just does this at shows…? Are these multi-day shows and is it right from the first day, or does the behaviour start a few days into showing??[/QUOTE]

Ibex,

I doesn’t matter if its a one or more day show. She is very smart. For instance it even happens at show that are held at home/where she lives. Happens at shows we ship to for the day, or are several day horse shows. It doesn’t really get better or worse, basically the same for all.

Yes only at shows.

[50ShadesOfHay]

To add on to my post:

She had a full vetting including back/neck x-rays when I purchased her a little over a year ago. My Vet has also successfully treated for ulcers (scope/re-scope, on preventative daily and ulcer guard at shows), has flexed and done an complete exam on her at home, including Lyme test (all negative).

The chiropractor and masseuse are out quarterly as well to treat her.

Her saddle was also fitted professionally.

Her teeth have been done yearly since I’ve had her.

She is also on Depo. (we tried Regumate but Depo seems better for her)

[joiedevie99]

When you ride at home, are you ever in the ring alone?

I’d try to simulate a show, i.e. ask your friends to stand outside the gate for 5 minutes. Then you enter alone, do something, and leave.

[clanter]

My family showed a Morgan nationally, she put up with it for several years the spark just turned off in her eyes

We took her out of the show biz and started competitive trail riding with her. Her first competition at her first pulse and respiration check (P&R) she thought she was being judged in a line up… squared up, head up, ears forward … looked very pretty as all the other horses had dropped their heads between their feet to reduce their respiration rates . It took her a few rides to figure out what to do and later became a national champ

But later in life she returned to show ring where she excelled once again

[50ShadesOfHay]

I ride both alone or with company at home.

Joiedevie99,
I’ll see if I can have a few friends stand outside the ring, and practice entering patting/treating and exiting some.

Thx

[Tiffani_B]

If everything physically checks out with the horse, and she NEVER gives any indication of this type of behavior when not at shows (i.e. she isn’t a brat), I would then say the only other piece to this puzzle would be the rider.

Have you had someone else try to ride her at shows? It’s possible that you are nervous and communicating that to the mare. Even if you don’t feel nervous, just the tiniest bit of excitement or extra concentration can be picked up by a sensitive horse.

[chunky_munky]

Don’t park her at the in gate for a long time standing with her friends. That is what usually causes this. She doesn’t want to leave after she has been hangin’ with her homies for awhile. I have had many that do this. Stand her at the side of the ring with no other horses, warm up and walk right in ring. I will be surprised if that doesn’t help significantly.

[PNWjumper]

Is there someone standing at the ring when you walk in for shows?

I have a mare that I was warned was dangerous trying to get into the arena at shows when I first got her. Word was that she’d run backwards, rear, and absolutely refuse to go into the ring. The daughter of the trainer was able to ride her through it (sort of) by getting after her strongly, and presumably often backing into the ring.

I never had much of a problem with her (though for the first year I always had someone nearby to lead her in just in case). And it took a chance encounter with her old trainer at a show (and her panicked reaction that sent her running backwards) to make me realize that the real problem had not been the gate or arena (or anything about the show at all), but the fact that the trainer she was afraid of always stood at the in gate whenever the kid or “trainer daughter” tried to ride in.

Anyhow, just a thought that perhaps there’s something about the people standing at the in gate that could be practiced/addressed at home?

[50ShadesOfHay]

Tiffani B,

She does this both with me and my trainer/professional on her.

Chunky Munky,

Thanks for the suggestion. I try to not have her hang out by the gate too much but sometimes the ‘hurry up and wait’ happens. But, I’ll definitely try to keep her away walking doing something and be more direct getting into the ring.

[Go_Fish]

[QUOTE=chunky munky;8607498]
Don’t park her at the in gate for a long time standing with her friends. That is what usually causes this. She doesn’t want to leave after she has been hangin’ with her homies for awhile. I have had many that do this. Stand her at the side of the ring with no other horses, warm up and walk right in ring. I will be surprised if that doesn’t help significantly.[/QUOTE]

I’ve never understood all this hanging around at the in gate. It’s a recipe for making a herd-bound horse. Plus, it allows “cool off” of muscles and mental sharpness after schooling for your class. Get your final grooming then go walk around outside the ring until it’s your time to enter the ring. Keep moving…

My gelding started this crap in his second year of showing. It blows the class, but he got his butt beat when he started backing up and getting a bit light in the loafers when it was his time to enter the ring. My trainer took the crop to his ass immediately. Yes, the judge sees it and you’re now out of the ribbons no matter type of round you have. But, the judge sees your horse having to be led into the ring anyway, and you could get dinged just for that. Best to blow one class and nip the behavior in the bud, before this bad behavior starts to become an issue that you can’t overcome in the ring.

My horses never go directly back to the barn after their class, either. They go back to the schooling ring and walk around, I dismount, then lead them back to the barn. While horses are not the smartest bulbs, they are smart enough to get sour right quick if you let them have what they want all the time. And what they want is hanging around with their friends and dinner.

[inca]

@Go Fish;8607521

I’ve never understood all this hanging around at the in gate. It’s a recipe for making a herd-bound horse. Plus, it allows “cool off” of muscles and mental sharpness after schooling for your class. Get your final grooming then go walk around outside the ring until it’s your time to enter the ring. Keep moving…

Well, for some horses that hanging quietly at the gait is a GOOD thing. Let’s them chill and not be too excited about going in to jump. I have one that was MUCH better if she got to stand there long enough to get bored.

And the current gelding that I show, if he is a little fresh and feels like he is getting more fresh as I canter in the warm up, I go stand at the gate and let him chill. He is one that gets a little nervous in the warm up ring but is perfectly happy to chill at the in gate. But, he is also one that if I mis-time things and get to the ring 2 minutes before I have to go in, he is fine with one lap at a canter around the warm up ring and then in we go.

So, different things work for different horses!

[mvp]

OP, if she does this only at shows, it might be that she has figured out that the rules that apply at home will not be enforced at shows.

IMO, you want to teach her that, yes, same rules apply in all times and all places.

Can you guys find a way to “pull over and school this” at a show? Can you set things up so as to “invite her to make a mistake” so that you can correct it? How about doing that early one morning when the rings are open for schooling?

In your case, and with a smart, young mare, you really don’t want her to learn any more about differences between situations than she already knows. More specifically, you don’t want her to learn that she must go into the ring when you say in the early AM when you are schooling… but that you won’t enforce that in the afternoon and in public.

So if I were going to school this, I’d invite her to make the mistake and be hard on her in the correction the first time. After that, when I had the obedience, I’d ride her into the ring and then hop off, giving her lots of praise… or school her outside the ring, trot briskly in and end the session there. By my way of thinking, you want this mare to have two experiences with the ring: Decisively losing a fight about it (that she started) and having an unexpectedly nice experience in there. You can use the latter…(especially if, when showing her, you repeat that “praise comes in the ring” ride… Come in and then give her a nice walk around and a pet until her ears go up. Then pick up your reins and ride your opening circle.) But you also need her to have experienced the former so that she has no question left in her mind about whether or not there’s ever a time that you won’t enforce the rules.

Take what you like and leave the rest. I may or may not have gotten insider your mare’s head well enough.

[Limerick]

Does she get Bute at the shows? Could her tummy be hurting bc of that? What is footing like at shows compared to home? Is she wearing a different bridle than at home?

[IPEsq]

Hi 50Shades, as you know I’ve ridden this horse. At the time, she was a bit gate sour. Nothing major just needed a big PUSH to go away from the gate and a big whoa coming back towards it. Nothing nasty. Fairly average 5-6yo behavior, IME. I’m glad that she has totally stopped this the majority of the time, and I’m not surprised that with a regular program she is great almost all of the time. But as you say, she is smart and has figured out this whole horse show routine. I bet it is a phase that will pass. I would agree, however, with those who say don’t hang out at the gate. Even if you get into a hurry up and wait situation at a show, keep on walking around, don’t park. The gate is not a parking place. I used to have to walk a lot of circles with my lazy baby horses, and they also might get a quick smack before walking in the ring (also, not at the gate but on the approach or in the last circle or two away from the gate, then it’s working walk into the arena). Usually to wake up the lazy ones, but in either case, it is a fairly subtle cue of, hey, you, I mean business! Time to go to work!

[findeight]

With mine that did this, and about half of them tried it, I never stood anywhere near the gate during the trip before me, just checked in with the gate and went away. When it was time, we walked brightly in on contact with leg…sometimes with a smart, quick tap behind the leg with a stick-which I then usually dropped with my pissy mare so she’d get over being offended before the first fence. They get it pretty quick if you are consistent no matter how much they got away with under prior owners/riders.

If course, it’s much easier not to ever let this get started. Just never let them hang with buddies or even stand alone at that gate for more then a few minutes and never, ever right before your round, it needs to be all business when you go in that ring alone with the herd standing at the gate.

One caveat, if it gets worse with each class or day or even week? There’s more going on then herd bound. They are saying no, tired, feet hurt, sore hocks or sick of life on the road in a 10x10 for weeks. That you need to figure out why and deal with the cause, not punish for showing symptoms.

Sounds like OPs horse needs to not be allowed to join the herd lounging around the gate and a reminder about forward before he enters. If there’s a delay? Go stand elsewhere, get off if it’s more then a few minutes, canter around the schooling ring once when you get back on and go right into the show ring from that.

[sandsarita]

[My gelding started this crap in his second year of showing. It blows the class, but he got his butt beat when he started backing up and getting a bit light in the loafers when it was his time to enter the ring. My trainer took the crop to his ass immediately. Yes, the judge sees it and you’re now out of the ribbons no matter type of round you have. But, the judge sees your horse having to be led into the ring anyway, and you could get dinged just for that. Best to blow one class and nip the behavior in the bud, before this bad behavior starts to become an issue that you can’t overcome in the ring.

My horses never go directly back to the barn after their class, either. They go back to the schooling ring and walk around, I dismount, then lead them back to the barn. While horses are not the smartest bulbs, they are smart enough to get sour right quick if you let them have what they want all the time. And what they want is hanging around with their friends and dinner.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this completely. One of my trainer’s horses came with the reputation of refusing to go into the arena. One session like you are describing is all that it took to change his behavior. One thing we do as well with all horses is make them think that the show arena is a nice place. That doesn’t mean that if they mess up we don’t correct them, we do, but it becomes a place of less work. If they disagree, they get worked hard outside of the arena. They also get most of the work done at home, so all the time at the show is practice and warming up, no actual “training” beyond what is necessary. That way the show is a happy time and enjoyable for them. It seems to work.

[silverdog]

My gelding is a complete idiot at two venues I show at near to home. This past weekend we actually made some forward progress with his nonsense. I have convinced myself he is unlikely to buck me off so now when he acts like he is getting explosive I just ride him forward for 5 min or so and then offer him a break. As long as he is behaving he can walk. The minute any nonsense starts off to work he goes. By the 2nd day he was chilling in the warmup with everyone else. He will walk into the ring (thankfully he does the jumpers) and then tries to whip around and run out. So when we go in I now make him stand motionless for a minimum of 10-20 seconds before he can get going. Seems to be working. I am actually going to be brave and school him at the even scarier venue in the fall. He has been a nightmare there.

[findeight]

Next time he tries the spin and run out? Let him run out. Then keep going to the schooling ring and make him work. He’s learned you get off when he leaves the ring therefore if he leaves the ring you will get off.

We have issues with Hunters who learn to count to eight and run and be done, lighting the jets down the last line to speed their exit and you getting off. If you do your rounds back to back or in a short rotation, it’s gets worse every round. The only way to solve this is jump a few extra fences before leaving the ring in a schooling round or do as above, go to the schooling ring and make him work for a bit instead of getting off.

They learn from repetition and repeat exactly what they are taught…not what we think we taught them. It’s worth throwing a few classes when this crops up so they can unlearn unintended lessons and the shiw ring itself is the only place they’ll get the point, otherswise they continue enjoy immunity in front of a judge.