Signs that a horse dislikes/hates jumping?

Your horse is probably fine, but needs a lot of time (and muscle strength) to be able to jump. Take a breath.

You said he’s done dressage - to what level? Can you get him to go in a Training Level frame? First level? How much lateral work does he know?

Any horse can jump. Jumping with a rider on board and in good form is a different issue. Until your guy is using himself properly - working off his hind end, equally in both legs, jumping is going to be a nightmare.

So, take him back to the beginning. Poles on the ground, until he (and you) are cantering confidently and in balance through 4 and 5 stride lines. Don’t forget single poles in random spaces - off corners, in the middle of the ring, etc. You should be able to ride to the distance or not (he should be confortable with just striding over a pole). No big moves from you (they’re just poles on the ground, after all).

Don’t forget working him (properly) on the longe over poles. He needs to realize he doesn’t have to be stressed out about them.

Take some time now to establish the horse you want to have for years. It rarely comes quickly, but putting in the slow, confident work now will pay off in the future.

Best of luck!

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Post videos of you flatting and jumping him.

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If you can post some videos of your riding this horse on the flat and maybe over a ‘course’ of poles ridden like a 2’ course, you might get some valuable feedback. The signs you’ve described: speeding up over jumps, refusing jumps, swishing tail and pinning ears, are all clear indications of discomfort, whether that’s ulcers/back/saddle fit, or lack of confidence from you frequently cantering to a big miss and catching him in the mouth or back. Without video, we can only assume the worst from your description.

Have you experimented with different tack at all? Maybe a softer bit, borrow a friend’s saddle, etc. Go back to flat work, work on suppling both of you. If he was a decent dressage horse, he should understand spirals, lateral, changes within the gaits. Schooling all these will help you trust eachother a little more. Don’t work canter until you can do all of the above at the trot. Don’t try to jump until you can do all of those at the canter. Then, if things have improved (less ear pinning, light in the bridle and to all your aids) you can think about the next step. The next step is NOT jumping. Next you introduce poles. Lots and lots of poles! Trot poles until you’re both bored. Then canter poles until you’re both bored. Do ‘courses’ of them, practice getting 1-2 more strides in a ‘line’, then 1-2 less, until you can switch back and forth perfectly. Develop your ‘eye’ and your horse’s confidence. Then start making a few of those poles into low X’s. The second the horse starts to speed up unasked, or refuses, you need to back up two steps.

Think of jumping a course as a house, and all the flat work detailed above is the foundation. If you try to put a house up with no foundation, the house will crash and burn, just as your current jumping is. You need to build a strong foundation, brick by brick, to have a strong house. The bigger the house (jumps) the stronger that foundation needs to be. There’s no timeline associated with this. You can’t be in a hurry.

It sounds like perhaps this wasn’t the right horse to purchase for a rider with jumping aspirations but without deep pockets to fund training rides. However, if you have a vet (and possibly also a chiro or bodywork specialist) give the horse a good going over, and all looks okay, going back to the very beginning, as above, you may be able to progress to jumping small courses successfully with this horse. However, once a horse has ‘learned’ to refuse, they never unlearn it, and it may always be a problem. Perhaps his true calling is as a LL dressage horse.
One more note. Without pictures it’s hard to know. But many paint horses are built downhill and naturally on their forehands. A horse with this conformation will always find jumping harder than a horse with sporthorse conformation. That may be another complicating factor.

One more note: based on the description of the escalating jumping problems, and the fact the horse had very little experience as a jumping horse, which is what you purchased him for, I’d be asking myself some hard questions about my trainer. The fact that he/she encouraged you to buy this horse, isn’t coaching you on how to solve the problems, and hasn’t jumped the horse him/herself to try to figure out the issues, means they may not be the right trainer for you. It might be time to take a good hard look at the program, the quality of instruction, and the progression of your riding and that of your barn-mates. Just my 2cents.

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Thank you for this! He was doing dressage at first level, starting on second. He’s incredibly gifted in dressage and I don’t want him to stop, but my knowledge of dressage is limited and I’ve been working with what I know. I think his previous owner may have rushed him into jumping, because he only started this year and he was already showing at 18”. Maybe he wasn’t ready for it yet. I definitely think he lacks confidence and thus jumping makes him really stressed. I honestly thought he was just very excited to jump, but it was probably anxiety. I’m gonna go back to dressage with him and start from the beginning. I think I started to lose patience and confidence with him too, so it will be beneficial to us both. Thank you again, I was so worried.

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It Sounds like saddle fit to me, and if he doesn’t like full seat canter either, that makes sense also. When you are jumping, the tree points could be hitting him on landing, and his resistance before the jump is in anticipation of the pain. Have you checked saddle fit?

If this horse was incredibly gifted in dressage the owner would have sold him as a dressage horse. If he was showing first and genuinely schooling second he is worth more as a dressage horse than as a greenie jumper. If the owner had just started him over 18 inch rails I would not call him a jumper.

I am seeing red flags here. Horse flunked out of dressage, was sold cheap I am assuming?

OP do you actually have.competrnt coach in the mix? Or are you alone with this horse in a back yard somewhere, or is your “coach” a 19 year old wannabe with no real experience? Or what?

Because it is more and more clear that you don’t understand the basics of teaching a horse to jump. No, bolting around jumps is not a sign of enthusiasm. No, a second level dressage horse shouldn’t have bolt in his repertoire and should be used to a sitting canter. Do you actually have confirmation this horse has dressage training? What moves can he do, like leg yield and shoulder in? Does he have a flying lead change (typically first level horses don’t)?

What’s his confirmation? Typically Paints are not incredibly gifted dressage horses.

The story just doesn’t really make sense as told.

I agree that you need a better trainer. If you are going this alone you are going to ruin the horse and get hurt and if your current trainer has let things get to this point they are incompetent to say the least.

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I’m going to suggest you check your saddle fit. I would also highly suggest finding a new trainer.

I have jumped him in 4 different saddles, narrow and wide, and he seems to have the same reaction in all of them. The saddle I currently use is the closest in shape to the one the saddle fitter recommended. I’ll take a second look at it. We’ve been trying different bits, but I’ve yet to find one that works.
When the vet came to do the PPE, he had very long toes and was tripping lots during lunging. I had X-rays done on all legs just in case, nothing off. He is now obviously trimmed and also I’ve put shoes on all four of his feet because it’s very recommended for working horses where I am.
ive been trying to post videos and photos since yesterday but I for some reason I can’t post my own stuff nor view other peoples photos so I have no idea what’s going on.
My trainer has her flaws but she’s very good at what she does and in my city it’s hard to find that. Not to mention I often drive up to an hour just to get to a barn and it’s one of the closest. Again, he was very different at his previous barn compared to now. And to be fair, I was not looking for an incredible seasoned 140cm jumper.

Your trainer agreed with you on buying a horse that has been a career Dressage horse to do jumpers with. Same horse pulled the same thing with her. Sorry get a new trainer.

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She did advertise him as a dressage horse. Where you’re from it may be different, but he was from the middle of nowhere in Florida. I believe she couldn’t afford to keep him and needed to sell him quick, so she wanted him to be more well rounded. Dressage is not popular at all in Florida, she knew she would have more chance of selling him if he at least had some jumping experience. She was right, because the only people who went to try him out were interested in him for jumping. And he is a pretty jumper, despite being a paint. He has leg yields and shoulder ins, and automatic flying changes, he has overall great movement. He was training at the second level and showing at first. He is used to the sitting trot and the sitting canter, he just prefers light seat and I do too. He has no problem with me sitting on his back as he canters. He is downhill as most paints are, he is built like a paint, his bloodline is paint and quarter horse, but he has talent, i don’t know what else to say. The owner was jumping him at 2’6” and showing him at 18”, I don’t think he was ready for that height yet. My trainer is very competent.

Why did you buy a horse that was tripping? Why was a horse that was proficient in dressage and schooling jumpers and bring actively marketed so behind on his hoof care that he was tripping? And while I fully understand barefoot performance horses and think that’s a great option, the fact that this horse was barefoot with long overgrown hooves that he couldn’t even trot with, is a huge red flag to me because it tells me the horse was not in regular work when you bought him. He had been standing in a pasture for months.

OP, confess. Is this horse really a rescue or a pasture puff or freebie? Can you verify anything about his background or is it all just second hand from the seller? How did you do a test ride if horse was tripping?

If you bought the horse out of a field theres a hood chance people gave up on him because he had behay or soundness issues. If he’s s rescue horse then all bets are off.

Do you even know if he is actually broke? What dressage moves does he know?

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You do realize that Florida has the largest dressage scene in the USA around the winter circuit shows and that people will indeed drive a couple hundred miles to view a horse that is going well and decently priced?

If the horse really was going as well as you say, and all of the bolting and stopping had occurred on your watch then you need a new trainer.

Question: how do you know your trainer is excellent?

And if your trainer is excellent why aren’t you getting help from them on this?

”‹”‹”‹”‹

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Okay this screams fake. Pretty jumper despite being a paint? Dressage not popular in Florida? Now the owner was jumping him 2’6” not 2’? Has an issue with riding in a full seat but this post says he’s fine?

OP either you got this horse without a trainer/don’t have a trainer or your trainer is garbage.

ETA: What the heck is a “sitting canter”?

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Ok so I made this post last night very late. I was completely paranoid and sleep deprived. I don’t have to explain my reason for buying him or my riding or my trainer’s competence because I’m just repeating myself. Thanks for all the helpful replies. Ill have a vet come out and I’ll go back to flatting him and see how we go from there. Not selling him.
I honestly was not under the impression that dressage was popular in Florida at all. When I talked to other people, it seemed like it was dying out. My mistake. I may have been riding for a while but I never thought to join the equestrian community so I’m new to it all.
thanks again.

I meant full seat

OP if you like the horse and are fine not jumping great! Do you live in Florida? I know a lot of people in the smaller towns. And really, reevaluate your trainer.

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There is nothing shameful in being at the start of your equestrian experience or in needing to learn more. Riding is a journey for all of us and we all can and should be constantly learning.

There are 4 stages to learning.

Unconscious incompetence where you don’t know what you don’t know.

Conscious incompetence where you realize what you don’t know which can be quite scary and can be attended by denial and defensivenesd.

Conscious competence where you can go things right but only by concentrating. Only having perfect EQ seat sometimes is like that.

And finally unconscious competence is when you have perfect muscle memory and don’t need to think about it.

Obviously different riding skills progress at different rates especially when we switch disciplines. But everyone goes through these stages.

Your defensiveness here is unfortunate because there are many experienced trainers riders and horsemen here that have seen similar situations and even been in them early days. I learned to ride self taught, there just were no trainers in my area, and I think back on how helpful just a little good instruction could have been. More recently I watched a 19 year old yeehaw rider with a green horse try to coach a 14 year old over fences and fortunately only the wannabe trainer was injured in the process.

OP I have been around horses long enough to know that all the things you are saying cannot be true.

A competent coach would have put a halt to the bolting and had you back on flatwork.

There are 3 possibilities.

Your coach is incompetent.

Your coach does not exist and you are doing this alone in a backyard in the middle of nowhere.

You have a “coach” in theory or maybe a former coach but can’t afford to take lessons and are doing this alone essentially.

It is not possible that the problems you describe have developed under the eye of a competent coach and that coach has done nothing to fix things before they escalated.

If you are honest about your situation and post done videos you will likely get life changing advice from people who know what they are talking about.

If you go off in a huff well, good luck and invest in a top of the line MIPS helmet because you will be hitting the ground a lot.

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I know you mean well, but you’re making a lot of assumptions. The only thing I said about my trainer was that she encouraged me to buy the horse. Another thing I said was that she believed that the reason for his behavior over jumps was I wasn’t commited or pushing him to the jumps.
please understand that he does not bolt anymore. He did it when he first arrived at my barn for a few weeks. I did jumped him only once during that time, and it was awful. So we went back to trot poles, canter poles, circling, and some dressage. He rarely gets quick with me now, and he definitely no longer gallops around the arena. He’s very adjustable. My initial question was “does he hate jumping.” I wanted more than just the opinion of my trainer, so I asked other people at my barn, and decided to ask on this forum as well. Once I told her about my concerns, she suggested I do a few dressage lessons and start from the beginning.
my trainer runs a huge program and is a very busy woman. I don’t expect her to be by my side at every moment. I knew that when I decided to buy the horse.
i really came here for a second opinion, not because I was not being coached well.
Ive had bad trainers in the past, and I really think she’s a fantastic coach.

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Grabs another cup of coffee, waits for the “you don’t know me or my horse”

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Your trainer should be giving you enough guidance that the problems you describe are not happening.

Your answers btw are starting to do that thing where significant details get added after the fact that do make it look like you are inventing things as you go along.

I believe at this point that there is s teenage rider and a Paint horse in backwoods Florida but have a lot of doubts about the rest of the details because the responses you have been giving show the first stage of learning to such a degree I can’t believe you are under instruction.

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