Single Harness to pairs question

Pardon me for possibly sounding dumb here… :lol:

I’m going to buy my mini a new biothane harness. Ultimately, i want to find him a matching pony one of these years and have a team. What would i need to convert his single harness to a pair harness? Do i just need to be sure the breast collar has a D to hook the front swingle tree to and detachable tug loops?

Just want to be sure i buy something i could continue using. I’ve only driven a team a couple times now, but couldnt remember anything else really being different with their harness.

Pairs breastcollars are not single horse breastcollars. I don’t think I would want to use a single horse model with a pair, no padding, no neck strap support, along with no front D to attach to pole. Single breastcollars are built much lighter, since there is no pull up or down on the chest area with no D attachement to vehicle.

OK, first thing is a Pair vehicle comes with a pole. On the end of the pole is either a pole head or a yoke. There is NO front swingletree device!

I THINK you are talking about a yoke, straight bar with snap ends. Bar of the yoke is attached to the pole end in the modern version. This will allow for very short pole, yoke snapped on breastcollars.

Old fashion buggy style yoke had a LONG pole with a wooden cross piece that slid a leather collar over the pole end, then each end of the wooden yoke buckled onto the neck collar of each horse. Leather collar held the yoke on pole and pole off the ground. This would be called a Drop Pole, seen on many buggys, light vehicles, horses holding the pole and yoke up all the time. Horses are hitched a bit tight front and back, preventing the yoke from coming off the pole end. Too much play in traces, pole straps with loose hitching can be a disaster if the pole drops off yoke carrier and spikes into the ground!!

A fixed pole, self-supporting, has a pole head on the far end, with short arms, 4-6 inches, sticking out to each side. The arms could have ring ends, or cast D shapes, where you ran the pole straps thru and back to the horses. Pole length when correct, is about even with horse nose when hitched. Length is NEEDED to give horses leverage in managing the load behind. Pole strap is about straight by the time it gets from horse to pole head arm, horses are NOT being pulled from sideways, just forward. This kind of pole is used on heavier vehicles, more stylish carriages.

Safety note here, do NOT get brass pole heads. Brass is soft, wears easily and fast, bends or breaks easily under stress. Even in the “olden days” a pole head was steel, could be painted. They didn’t use brass pole heads. However modern folks want all metal matching, so demand for brass pole heads has caused them to be produced. Just be aware they are not safe. Stainless is available now, is considered a neutral metal like bits in silver color. Works with whatever metal the harness and other parts of the vehicle have. Antiques might have steel pole head, painted black. Legal and correct in setting up your vehicle.

So without knowing your Pair vehicle in the future, you don’t know what you need. PLEASE avoid the Meadowbrook cart model with a pole. VERY tippy. Pole is a LOT of weight on the horses or minis pulling it, weight is always bearing down. Easy to get sore necks and other problems with that vehicle. They do seem to sell, folks want an all-purpose vehicle without spending much money, don’t consider safety.

Hmmm… Well, i was looking at getting one of these harnesses:
http://www.countrycarriagesusa.com/betabiharness.html

Which does have a padded breastcollar with D to attach to the yoke (yes i meant yoke, not swingle tree… I’m getting there, bare with me… :lol: )

They also sell this harness for pairs… Which i’m assuming the only difference would be the lack of shaft tugs? They dont give a picture of a pair in harness for me to compare with.

No, i do not know what vehicle i’m going to get for them, it will be a carriage of sorts, probably a small wagonette or if i get lucky and find a decent mini sized marathon carriage in my price range used, that would be nice. Not that i’ll compete with this pair, but i figure it will handle whatever abuse i throw at it if we take them off road. That and i’m pre-spoiled using the equipment at Muffy’s.

I do know that the team we have been driving at Muffy’s has harness that has shaft tugs on them, thus i assumed i could get something similar that would be more multi purpose. I’m not looking at getting a cheap piece of junk harness, i want it to LAST. I’m done with stuff falling apart on me.

Your best bet is to consult with Claudette and with Muffy about what pieces you can use and what pieces have to change in order to use a single harness for pairs

the breeching on pairs is also not exactly the same as for singles (where it attaches to the shaft)

Both your contacts have been around for a long time and know what is needed and they will know the equipment that you have already, so . . . they can help you the most, with the least angst.

[QUOTE=butlerfamilyzoo;4815804]
Hmmm… Well, i was looking at getting one of these harnesses:
http://www.countrycarriagesusa.com/betabiharness.html

Which does have a padded breastcollar with D to attach to the yoke (yes i meant yoke, not swingle tree… I’m getting there, bare with me… :lol: )

They also sell this harness for pairs… Which i’m assuming the only difference would be the lack of shaft tugs? They dont give a picture of a pair in harness for me to compare with.[/QUOTE]

Looking at the photo, the D in front appears to be small, so I would think that it is for the false martingale. Pole straps are 2-3 inches wide, thick, to take strain of a vehicle. So Ds on a Pair harness are MUCH larger in all the breastcollars I have seen. Ds are like 2-3 inches across, with thicker metal, almost pencil thick for horse equipment. Also they are mounted vertically, not horizontally, unless this is a new style in harness. Pair breastcollars are just heavier built, thicker, as well as padded. Shoulder strap is wider, thicker, to take the strain of pole pull. I was not clear on that, sorry.

Our Pair breastcollars have the buckle-in traces, but ends are longer than single horse breastcollar. Where the shaft loop hangs from a strap under terret, there is a buckle to let that strap support the ends of the breastcollar. Ends come over the harness saddle, so traces may be shorter.

As Drive NJ said, the breeching is fastened differently on a Pair, than on a single. A common method is a loop ended strap from breeching ring to buckle into the longer ends of the Pair breastcollar, under the traces. So two strap ends in the same buckle.

There are other ways of changing two single harnesses into a Pair harness, using various straps and changing some things around. You will have to buy Pair reins, can’t get around that. As mentioned, Claudette and Muffy are experts at this, so would be the most help by being right there for you.

Not picking on you about the yoke, maybe you had only seen photos, which often show no details! Unrwapped, it can look like a singletree.

You can buy harness that does switch from singles to pairs, tandem & teams. All of my harness does this quite easly. It cuts down the cost of having to buy set after set to go from singles and so on. If you have a training stable or if you are unsure of where you want to go with driving it’s a good idea to buy a harness of good quality that will change over.

As well as Muffy & CC Marjean at Camptown is selling a switch over harness that I know, use & really like.
Best of luck.
Robert

Thank you Robert, i knew there had to be something i’m missing here since i’ve had my hands on Muffy’s harnesses that did both. She directed me to a few websites, but we didnt really talk specifically on what i should buy. I have no issues going the opposite direction of buying a pair harness and getting pieces to make it work for single if the pair harness is more heavy duty. Frankly though, i dont see a difference between what we’ve been using at Muffy’s on the minis than what i’ve seen single on a mini when it comes to biothane, and that is what i want. No molding leather and gobs of maintenance for me please!

I keep going back and forth on the camptown website, convenient because they are close, but i just thought the country carriage harness looked a little fancier and more polished, maybe they just have better pictures… :slight_smile: I will have to write camptown and ask them more questions.

I just dont want to end up with something that i’ll have to sell when i find a match down the road for my mini team. I’m really hoping i’ll luck out at the Perry auction and i’ll find a 37" bay roan mini gelding… Fat chance, but maybe!

AAAAHHHHHHhhhhhh Minis! ! !

that’s why you cant see much difference

the parts are so tiny anyway
its hard to see the size change between collar and breeching straps - single to pair

where on a horse there might be inches different in a strap
in a mini its probably only quarter inches :wink:

Call and ask.

I bought my beta harness from Claudette, and she has been great about answering my thousands of ridiculous questions and bizarre descriptions of things I think I need - most recently as I acquire those pieces I need to use my harness to put the wonder pony to my new marathon carriage (Thanks Ashemont!!) I do really like the look of her harness.

My harness will all change from singles to pairs and I’ve sets in webbing and leather that will do that.

So it is indeed available.