sitting trot, rising trot and muscles

[prestigemystery]

Hi guys, im a novice rider in my teens and have rode for about a year and a half. Would appreciate if you could give me some advice

So i take weekly lessons and i find that my thighs (especially the inner thighs and the back) are sore nearly almost after every lesson. is this normal considering i only ride once weekly? or am i engaging the wrong muscles.
Another thing, I cant post without stirrups and i realised this is because as i relied too much on my stirrups to post (ie i have this habbit of posting from my stirrups and rely on them when say im unstable or when my horse bolts). Hence, nowadays i try to combat this problem by gripping with my thighs and possibly my knees, not sure if its thats the correct way to post? but thats also probably causing my muscle soreness.

Another thing, in ordder to do the sitting trot without stirrups I just need to let my legs hang and not grip anywhere right? So just to confirm, the muscles we engage to do sitting and rising trot is different? Also, i dont actually feel my abs getting sore so i was also wondering how do i use my abs??

oh dear im so confused HAHAH so would appreciate some advice and have you experienced it b4? PS i cant chose the saddles or horses i ride as i ride in a riding school… i acknowledge that saddle fit might be a contributing factor but i cant do anything about that thank you!

[SinMiedo]

Welcome to COTH!
There are tons of crazy knowledgeable folks on here that are far better qualified to answer this than myself, but I have had similar problems since returning to riding after an extended break.

For me, most of my problems came/come from a simple lack of fitness/time in the saddle (I also was only riding once a week or so at first) and very little flexibility in my hips.

At the risk of sounding stupid, I’ll leave the serious riding advice to people who know more than I do, but I will say that Pilates and Yoga/stretching has helped me immensely. Being tight through my hips really amplified my tendency to instinctively pinch with my knee and clamp with my legs rather than allow my leg to drape like it should.
As I’ve gotten stronger and more flexible, I find it much easier to “wrap” with my leg rather than clamp. (Clamp mode still happens far too frequently, but it’s getting better!)

Best of luck!! I’m really looking forward to reading everyone’s answers to your questions. There’s always something to learn on here!

[fjordmom]

What you really need to do is strengthen your core. That involves understanding the use of the psoas muscles. Check this out.

I highly recommend Tom Nagel’s little book Zen and Horseback Riding. You’ll find a simple exercise for strengthening your psoas. If you can attend one of Tom’s clinics, definitely do it. He’s a great guy and very informative teacher when it comes to helping you become aware of your body and how to use it efficiently for riding (and more).

[Graymaresrule]

Another good book is “Ride with your Mind Essentials” by Mary Wanless. It’s available on Kindle. Her other Ride with your Mind books are good also.

Can you get up out of a chair without pushing yourself up with your arms? Many people can’t and it’s a sure sign of lack of core strength.

Are you concentrating on “heels down”?

Don’t

That tends to cause all sorts of seat and leg issues.

How much weight do you have on your stirrups? It should be pretty negligible. If you push on them your seat will want to go up. That’s not always a good thing. A pair of jointed stirrups might help here. MDC used to rent them on trial. Most of your weight should be supported by your thighs with your knees as a pivot. The horse does most of the work posting.

Do your toes point out? That means that your whole leg is rotating out from your hip joint and is possibly one source of your pain. Your knees and the front of your thighs should be pointing forward. You might have to think of pointing your knee toward the horse’s opposite ear and posting with your hips to the horse’s ears for a while.

To get the feeling of the correct hip movement sit on a balance ball with your feet on the ground(don’t worry about your knees pointing a bit sideways) and bounce. Put your hands on your thighs. You will feel your hips and elbows opening and closing like you should when your horse trots. You will also feel the front of your thighs. :eek:

[CliffordsMama]

Hi! and Welcome! I love posting on this group, and I hope you will have the same positive experience. It really is a great group of people.

I will second a bit to what SinMiedo. When I was only riding about 2-3 times per week my legs were sore. It really was just a lack of fitness. I worked on strengthening my legs by running and also increasing my riding and it improved quickly. I ride about 5-6 times a week now and I feel like I am a much stronger rider now then I was 2 years ago. So I guess my advice would be to ride more when you can but also incorporate other exercises that will help strengthen your core and legs.

[merrygoround]

A great book to understand using your self, is the “Classical Seat” bu Sylvia Loch. It really annoyed me when I read it because I’d spent so much time learning what she wrote the hard way. There really is so much published and written now hat riders have a much better chance of figuring things out even without an instructor.

It is not surprising that your inner thighs are sore, but I suspect you are using them for the wrong reasons. In the rising trot you lead with your hips, rolling up on your thighs. The inner thighs and your core muscles are stabilizing but you do not keep your thighs closed constantly.

[atlatl]

Core, core and more core. Also, I find that my back aches only when I do not tuck my seat under and, you guessed it, use my core.

Good suggestions already on books, but if you can find someone to give you lunge line lessons and really work on your seat you’ll be miles ahead of the game.

Good Luck!

[netg]

You absolutely should be sore if you’re riding only one time per week!

However, I suspect you are a strong candidate for the advice Do not ride without stirrups!

Riding without stirrups CAN be good for people. But for someone who already tends to grip with the legs as you describe, it can cause even more gripping. Unless you’re working on draping and it makes your legs tired enough to make you quit.

Hips forward in posting is a key part of what will make gripping unnecessary. “Use your core” probably makes zero sense to you now, though. The hips forward and roll along your thigh is part of it - you can’t do that without using your core. When sitting in a chair, put one hand in the small of your back and one hand in front at the same height. Try to push into both at once. This is referred to as “bearing down” by some (I think Mary Wanless started the use of that phrase, I’m not sure) or my trainer just says “stick your belly out.” I suspect you do not have a naturally hollow back but rather tend to have to work to sit up straight instead of hunched based on the fact you said you don’t have sore abs. Because of that, “belly out” may work for you. As someone with a naturally hollow back, thinking of it as belly out just makes me arch more and not engage the core so I visualize my hands in front and back to do it. This is the basis of how to use your core while posting - and it should both lighten the weight of your feet in your stirrups and make the rolling to post much easier. It will also encourage your horse to use its own core and come rounder and more completely on the bit.

[MissAriel]

If you can find longe lessons, that would be great, but as you mention you are in a riding school, they may not do longe lessons. At the barn where I am we have a riding school for beginning riders, but quite a few found the school didn’t progress beyond a certain point and have started taking lessons with the dressage trainer. All of them have benefitted from longe lessons. I have been riding for decades, and still benefit from periodic longe lessons. Especially with your eyes closed!!

You got good advice regarding your core and rolling on your thighs when you post. It is a feel thing, and hard to put in words how to engage your core properly. You might need to tuck your tailbone under, or have your trainer bring your leg off the horse’s side, rotate your knee in then lay your leg back in the right position to get the right position.

When learning and teaching one person responds to one description, another to a different description. Find a trainer or instructor who has a lot of ways to say the same thing. When my trainer first told me to “ride with my bones” when cantering I had no idea what she was talking about, but I got better. I don’t know what exactly I was doing, but it is a difference that is seen and felt, and that instruction just “clicked” but she had tried many other ways to get my seat improved at the canter!

Best of luck, and please do come back with updates.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

Find a GOOD biomechanics instructor and take a few lessons, maybe once a month or whenever he or she clinics.

[CenteredRiding]

It is a difficult problem, the doing as well as the explaining.

A book with pictures is maybe more helpful. I’m using one called “Balance in Motion.” It has TONS of pictures as well as description of which muscles to use, how much weight should or shouldn’t be on the stirrups, etc.

(When I tried sitting trot without stirrups, recently, I was surprised at how much I could feel it in my abs. They are used to hold your torso upright so that it balances on the saddle. When you get your upper body properly positioned, you will find you can balance there, but not without work. There are certain muscles (lower abs, mid-section abs) as well as some back muscles need to engage to hold you in the upright, balanced position.

Some very good ways to achieve the upright balanced position, using visualizations rather than mechanics so much, are given in Sally Swift’s book … I forget the name. Oh . . right! “Centered Riding.”

For sitting trot without stirrups you will also need to flex your feet (pull toes up by engaging the extensor tendons) so that they are in heels-down position. This lengthens the hamstrings and other muscles along the back of leg to further stabilize your seat, as well as shortens the muscles that run across the front of the knee, thus preventing or relieving knee pain.)

I do want to just warn against jointed stirrups. I tried them recently and discovered true pain for the first time. They’re a lot like riding with no stirrups because you can’t feel the pressure on your feet so you don’t have the feedback, which is the purpose of steady-state stirrups, in assisting balance.

They kind of stretch downwards when you put pressure on them. I couldn’t tell where my feet were or whether my heels were down. I assumed they were, but one day instructor told me I shouldn’t be stretching my toe down to reach the stirrup. Wha-a-a-a-a? I had no idea. Hence the pain. Toes down = knee and inner lower leg pain as well as knee and calf pain, some kind of tendons along leg to be overstretched, others to be over-flexed.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=CenteredRiding;8852830]
It is a difficult problem, the doing as well as the explaining.

A book with pictures is maybe more helpful. I’m using one called “Balance in Motion.” It has TONS of pictures as well as description of which muscles to use, how much weight should or shouldn’t be on the stirrups, etc.

(When I tried sitting trot without stirrups, recently, I was surprised at how much I could feel it in my abs. They are used to hold your torso upright so that it balances on the saddle. When you get your upper body properly positioned, you will find you can balance there, but not without work. There are certain muscles (lower abs, mid-section abs) as well as some back muscles need to engage to hold you in the upright, balanced position.

Some very good ways to achieve the upright balanced position, using visualizations rather than mechanics so much, are given in Sally Swift’s book … I forget the name. Oh . . right! “Centered Riding.”

For sitting trot without stirrups you will also need to flex your feet (pull toes up by engaging the extensor tendons) so that they are in heels-down position. This lengthens the hamstrings and other muscles along the back of leg to further stabilize your seat, as well as shortens the muscles that run across the front of the knee, thus preventing or relieving knee pain.)

I do want to just warn against jointed stirrups. I tried them recently and discovered true pain for the first time. They’re a lot like riding with no stirrups because you can’t feel the pressure on your feet so you don’t have the feedback, which is the purpose of steady-state stirrups, in assisting balance.

They kind of stretch downwards when you put pressure on them. I couldn’t tell where my feet were or whether my heels were down. I assumed they were, but one day instructor told me I shouldn’t be stretching my toe down to reach the stirrup. Wha-a-a-a-a? I had no idea. Hence the pain. Toes down = knee and inner lower leg pain as well as knee and calf pain, some kind of tendons along leg to be overstretched, others to be over-flexed.[/QUOTE]

Some people love jointed stirrups others hate them. You won’t know until you try. That’s why I suggested MDC…they rent them.

I do have a bunch of hardware in my left ankle which might make a difference. I also use Thin line wraps on my stirrups.

[Dressage_Strider]

[QUOTE=CenteredRiding;8852830]

Some very good ways to achieve the upright balanced position, using visualizations rather than mechanics so much, are given in Sally Swift’s book … I forget the name. Oh . . right! “Centered Riding.”

.[/QUOTE]

I l-o-v-e Sally Swift’s Centered Riding

Colleen Kelly also has a Biomechanics that is fabulous

[J-Lu]

Good advice so far! I want to add…how responsive is your horse?

If your horse isn’t amazingly responsive or you are teaching him/her how to bend, then you’ll be using your legs and hips in a somewhat strenuous way in your lessons if your instructor is working bend with you. It is one thing for you to deliver aids, it’s another thing for your horse to respond quickly and lightly to them.

Yes, sitting the trot engages your abs and you should “feel it” in your abs. But keeping your horse on your aids might equally engage your inner and outer thigh muscles, your lower back muscles, and your arm muscles. Also, you should feel relaxed when sitting on a horse who is relaxed in the sitting trot. It should feel comfortable and relaxed and easy to sit when done correctly. But this might take time and strength on your and your horse’s part to get there.

[ThreeFigs]

Wonderful advice for a basic but important problem that riders grapple with!

Single-offset stirrups helped my position immensely – and that was after about 50 years in the saddle. Single-offsets help some people with conformational flaws that prevent them from “draping” their legs nicely around the horse. They are hard to find, though. Most stirrups offered (at Dover, say) are double-offset and are used more by the hunter crowd. Double-offsets encourage a “pinched” knee and a locked ankle. Not good for us dressage folk.

Single offsets encourage stretching the outside of the rider’s leg, encouraging the “draped” leg. Basically it makes doing the wrong thing harder.

In posting, the simplest advice I can give is what my very first instructor used to tell me: “Let the horse push you up”.

When riding the sitting trot, try “fluffing” your legs away from the horse’s sides momentarily to release those gripping muscles. Allow your seatbones to sink into the saddle. Feel the side-to-side and back-and-forth and up & down motion of the horse’s back and roll with it. Balance and gravity hold you in the saddle, your ability to follow the motion helps you stay “with” the horse. As you gain that skill, you’ll be able to aid the horse better and in rhythm with his movement. The better you get, the better the horse will get.

Best of luck and have fun!