Situation at the barn-- aggressive horse and owner doesn't understand severity of the situation

[signmypapyrus]

I didn’t know where to put this, but the situation is escalating to the point that 1. the owner is going to get hurt (not necessarily something that I can worry about) and 2. it’s impacting other boarders since we have to deal with the horse.

I know that I haven’t been on here for a while, but I have no idea what to do and this situation is causing me immense anxiety since I can’t handle horse treatment like this. Plus, it’s hard to witness escalation like this where you know someone has gotten hurt and they’re going to get hurt again.

Some background: This lady at my barn purchased horse as a ten month old because she had baby fever, but she had zero experience with or around foals or yearlings. She decided to do “consent” training, which honestly, I don’t know what that is. I just know what she told me: if the horse didn’t come to the fence to be fed, she wouldn’t feed it because the horse didn’t consent.
I do not know if the horse is malnourished, but my impression is that he could be, but he also could just be going through an awkward stage. He is a Missouri Fox Trotter gelding and looks wonky and awkward, as most three-year olds do. He was a crypt, too.

When he was stalled, he would lunge at us through the pen. I took this behavior as him testing boundaries, so I just walked back at him and he would stop that baby nonsense. So, he started out behaviorally relatively normal.
The owner did not know how to handle his “baby” brain, so when he reared at her (as babies do), he knocked her down several times and learned he could knock her down. The incidences I observed when he was still around a year:

1. She was trying to lead him, he reared up at her, and she immediately let him graze.
2. She had him tied to her trailer, he reared up at her, and she untied him and let him graze.
3. He started charging her around this time.

Around the age of two, he started pawing her since she “trims” his feet. I use this term loosely because she has lamed the baby and her older mare. The observations I made:

1. He pinned her onto the ground several times when she tried to trim his feet, so she stopped trimming his feet.
2. He started pawing her when she tried to go back to square one and teach him to just pick up his feet.
3. He began kicking at her and at us boarders if were passing by him in his pen and when he was turned out in the pasture.

One thing I want to specify is that none of these behaviors were corrected in any way. His first vet examine (at our barn) went really bad and he had to be put into the stocks because he tried jumping onto the vet. Before I discuss the recent situations, this lady’s assessment is that the horse was abused by the breeders and the vet abused him (I don’t know how the vet abused the horse). My assessment is that the lady doesn’t want to take account for her lack of horsemanship so she’s blaming other people.

The recent situations:

1. The horse has lunged aggressively at me, other boarders, and my family (before I realized he was going to do that). I now don’t bring anyone else out to the pasture and I bring a whip with me when I get my horse. When the colt lunges at me, he flattens his ears and bares his teeth. He has also tried to kick me multiple times. I just drive him off with the whip and avoid the pasture as best as I can.
2. Recently, the horse attacked the owner-- he was clearly scared and reacted out of intimidation and fear-- and pinned the owner onto a round bale, crushing the owner. She let him. ALL OF US were terrified and tried to keep the situation as calm as possible. I am not sure if the owner is okay, and at this point I don’t want to know.
3. The most recent incidences involved the horse striking at the owner and reaching to bite her. Her response is to move out of his way.

My barn friend and I are terrified that he’s going to kill this lady, FYI.

Those of us who deal with this horse chase him off or ask him to stay out of our way. When I go into the pasture to fetch my mare, I bring a flag and I won’t let this colt within a certain proximity of my space since he has lunged at me and tried to kick me (I essentially just chase him off). My barn manager told me that she has “disciplined” him (I don’t know what that entailed) since he has tried to kick at her.

My concerns: I think the horse is at the point that he should probably be euthanized. He hates his owner and everyone at the barn is aware of this. The only best case scenario I can imagine is only a professional who has experience with aggressive horses taking him.
There are deeper issues going on this with woman, but something a few of us at the barn have talked about is liability. This lady’s mare isn’t safe either, but she at least doesn’t attack anyone. There isn’t another barn in the area to move my mare since I live in a very rural area, but what is at stake if the lady’s gelding were to hurt anyone? My barn told me they have insurance.
At this point, none of us can talk with this lady since she’s convinced she’s doing everything 100% correctly.

Advice? Help?

[NancyM]

Keep yourself clear of this situation. Find another boarding barn, if you can. You can’t help “stupid” or “crazy”. She will be hurt, and the horse will go to auction. Problem solved. Just make sure to keep yourself and your horse safe and clear of what goes on. Good luck.

[signmypapyrus]

Thank you. Is there anything I can do until I find another barn? My friend and I are trying to look together since my location is so remote.

(I basically avoid this woman like the plague, FYI).

[OverandOnward]

Others with more experience with such a terrible situation will have more to say about the horse. As far as I’m concerned, the horse isn’t even something you need to worry about.

You need to remove yourself and your horse from this situation. You can’t fix it, and it is not yours to fix.

There is nothing complicated here. Either the aggressive horse goes, or you and your horse, go, by the end of the month.

It would be great if you and the other boarders could present this message to the barn owner together. But if you can’t get them together to do it this week, you do it yourself on your own. In my opinion, you and your horse need to be out of there ASAP.

Let the other boarders know that you’ve done so and hopefully their voices will be added. At least it might wake up the barn owner.

This lady is like someone who is refusing to leave a burning building. In fact, she set the fire.

There’s nothing you can do for her. Don’t even stay acquainted with someone like this if you care about the people you know. You can only save yourself.

She is on her own life path. She is choosing to stay in his damage range, and choosing make him more dangerous. She knows.

The barn owner has her own decision to make. The barn, owner, too, is on her own life path, and you can’t fix that, either. All you can do is look after yourself and your horse.

A horse this aggressive towards people will be aggressive towards other horses as well. The response by the owner will, of course, make this worse and worse, as you know. As you know, this is beyond dangerous.

You simply have to save yourself and your own horse. Get out of the burning building. Get away from the person who set the fire. That is all you can do.

[Jealoushe]

@signmypapyrus

I think the horse is at the point that he should probably be euthanized. He hates his owner and everyone at the barn is aware of this. The only best case scenario I can imagine is only a professional who has experience with aggressive horses taking him.

I’m sorry but there is no possibly way you could know this simply by being a fellow boarder.

I understand you think you have a handle on this entire situation but it’s likely you don’t, not to mention it’s not your horse or your business OTHER than you being at risk and worrying about the owners safety. Those issues should be addressed with the barn owner. If the barn owner doesn’t care then you either accept it or leave.

To say someone’s horse is at the point it should be euthanized because it’s a young and untrained baby is crazy talk.

[signmypapyrus]

Thank you for your input. It’s difficult because there aren’t other boarding facilities in the area, but my barn friend and I are looking.

I don’t think I can save this horse; I’m more concerned about liability.

[OzarksRider]

I was horrified reading this. This is 100% the owner’s fault but there’s a very good chance the horse will pay the price with his life. The owner needs a serious intervention . . . could the barn owner do this? IIWM, I’d tell the owner to get that horse and herself some training or find another barn.

As for the horse . . . of course he hates his owner. I would too if I were him. The owner is clueless and the horse knows it. I think the horse’s only chance is to get with a trainer that can instill some respect, and it could be tough to do this because the horse has had a long time to develop these bad habits. And training the horse won’t do any good in the long run if the owner doesn’t change her ways.

[OverandOnward]

Why are you concerned about liability? You don’t have any liability.

You sound like you are getting emotionally involved in the situation. There’s nothing you can do. Keep yourself and your horse safe, that’s all. Just get out.

[signmypapyrus]

A few of us have talked with the barn owner and last I was aware the barn owner is pushing the lady to find a trainer. I’m not sure how far that went. I do know that the lady found a trainer, but then the trainer backed out. I’m not sure why.

One of the issues is that this is the ONLY boarding facility in the area so everyone just tries to get along.

I can talk with my barn owner about what the plan is with the horse and if the lady is sending him to a trainer.

[signmypapyrus]

Please read my responses about the boarding situation.

[OverandOnward]

Sometimes something happens that forces us to make a radical change, even when we think it can’t be done, even when we think we aren’t ready.

I suspect that there are other options. You just have not yet been willing to explore them fully. But now you are being forced to do this by an untenable situation.

Keep an open mind to other possibilities that you haven’t yet considered. And good luck!

[luvmyhackney]

TBH it’s none of your business about this owner and the horse.

The situation should be handled between the barn owner/manager and the horse owner. If you aren’t happy with the barn owner/manager’s actions, move.

Otherwise, close your eyes and avoid the owner. Not your horse and you aren’t paying the bills.

[2DogsFarm]

So Many Red Flags

BO needs to address this ASAP, but from the practices you describe, ain’t gonna happen.

1)3yo cryptorchid? Has surgery been done?
If not, this is not a gelding.

2)Turnout is a mixed herd? Mares & geldings?
WTF is BO thinking? See 1)
Is there no other pasture?

3)Owner is clueless. Explaining horse’s behavior as due to abuse is idiotic. And allowing the kind of physically dominant behavior she has is not going to end well.
Horse has put her on the ground repeatedly, this alone is the most dangerous behavior.

Get out.
What you describe is not going to be handled by BO.
Owner will eventually get hurt badly. Leaving barn workers to handle this horse.

If I was the BO, this moron would get a 30-Day notice. And I’d immediately get a Horsemen’s Lien put in motion.
Horse would not be put out with the herd.
If there’s no other pasture he can go alone, then he stays stalled.
Might not be happy about it, but can be fed, watered w/minimal interaction.
If owner doesn’t move him, sell (with full disclosure) send him to auction, or euth at your expense.

[Sparrowette]

First, Yes about the leaving, and not your job to fix the horse, and it should be worked out with the BO. All of that.

Second, Before you go, give her a copy of the Buck Brannaman CD (I forget if it’s in the movie “Buck” or in the 7 Clinics series) but she needs to see the palomino stallion he was working with, and what he has to say about that situation. Of course the situation isn’t completely analogous, but I see many similarities in the horse, and she should hear what Buck has to say about how the horse is acting and what his future will be if he continues without correct training.

But that’s just my 2¢

[ChocoMare]

Your barn manager and/or owner have already made it abundantly clear they will not do anything. A responsible manager/owner would have given the owner 48 hours to vacate the barn. As Maya Angelou used to say “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” You’ve seen it, now believe it.

Get creative and get out… co-op barn, self-care acreage, whatever. Just do it. Cuz trust me, any owner/manager that would let this continue is going to do it again.

[2DogsFarm]

I saw the movie & the palomino stud.
Pretty horrifying to watch & hear the backstory.

If this Asshat Owner did see & listen, doubtful she’d equate it to her poor, “abused” Floofy

[ShenanAnna]

Look beyond “boarding barns.” Any properly fenced field will probably do. You and your friend can take turns feeding, etc. while you either modify your field or find a more appropriate situation. When something is this dangerous, drop your standards and take whatever you can get, assuming it’s safe®.

[signmypapyrus]

I’ve been looking for anything for over a year; I even looked into putting my mare in my backyard. When I say I live in a rural area, I mean outside our city limits, there isn’t a gas station for over fifty miles and then almost another hundred miles. I’m worried I sound like I’m making excuses; it’s a rough area to live.

My first PT was going to let me move my mare to her property, but she had three horses on five acres; my current PT has horses so I’m going to ask her. I’ve contacted a lot people, including people I don’t know, to move my mare. I just need a big enough pen for her basically, but people around here (I live near the Canadian border) are a little strange and standoffish.

When I say this is a boarding facility, my mare is just out on acreage and gets hay and water. It’s self-care.

Yes, the gelding (he was gelded when he was two) is very similar to the palomino stud in Buck. Also, I’ve been to a Buck Brannaman clinic and he would make that lady cry.

[endlessclimb]

Is there a way to get your horse into a different pasture than this horse?

If not, then moving is your only option. No WAY would I be going into a field with a horse like this.

I don’t understand some BOs. Is she that hard up for money that it’s worth having this idiot around? Give the 30 days!!

[firecracker]

You really have two options here: stay or go.

If you stay, all you can do is steer clear of this lady and her horse as much as possible. It’s a shame that the barn manager is allowing a situation like this to occur… but it is happening, and it is out of your hands. Keep yourself safe, and keep carrying a whip or flag when you have to go into the pasture. If at any point you feel like you cannot enter the pasture safely, then at that point you really must go.

Try to emotionally disconnect yourself from this situation. I know it’s hard for us horsepeople, since we care about the horses, and we want to try and help. It took me a long time to learn this, but I am much happier when I focus my time and energy and thoughts on my own horse, which is something that is within my control, instead of worrying about other people and other horses that are outside of my control. There are always going to be stupid people doing stupid things with their horses, and worrying about it will only take away from your own happiness with your own horse. If this lady isn’t seeking your help, and the barn manager isn’t willing to take steps to correct the situation… there’s really not much that can be done.

Now, when your own personal safety is threatened, then it does become your problem, which is where the “go” option comes into play, if it comes to that. I understand how much it sucks to feel limited by boarding options… been there, done that. But, well, sometimes we have to get creative when push comes to shove.

Good luck. I feel sorry for the horse.