the dutch championships are almost and the european championships are definitely harder to place or win in than the WEG or Olympics.
You all seem to forget that Sjef also trained and rode/rides all other horses of Anky, when she was pregnant, injured or had a very busy businness agenda.
It made some people even joke “Anky should become pregnant more often”, because Sjef did a wonderfull job solving the xxxxxx problem of Salinero.
For me Sjef is not a competition rider at all, but I don’t think that this is his ambition or ever has been his ambition.
The question remains: Are there any videos of him riding anywhere? I would be curious to see them. 
I just wanted to point out that some of the greatest trainers are not the best riders, and vice versa. It happens that Sjef did show through GP. But whether he is a superb rider or not does not necessarily correlate to his aptitude as a trainer.
Somewhere I did see a video of him riding. He rode very well. Absolutely still, very quiet hands, very good position. There are some pictures of him riding in Dirk Rosie’s book on selecting dressage horses. The horse looks very normal, poll highest, well engaged, etc.
Rehbein for example wasn’t always the most equitationally perfect rider, but he had ‘Tranquilizers in his hands’. He was incredible, what he could do.
You can find everything in the Dutch Wikipedia of Dressage.
Can you post a link to that?
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjef_Janssen_(paardensport)
I think Sjef will be regarded same as Fillis, Baucher, and a few others–as a highly significant innovator of a sport.
I don’t see either Baucher or Fillis as a positive influence.
Whether you see them as positive or not–they are among the handful of names that are known, precisely because they caused others to THINK about their own principles, their own process and system.
I absolutely will not get pulled in to any discussion about Sjef, Anky, etc.
i would like to know what you think of them, you can pm, i will not offer any criticism. i am just interested in your POV.
Be careful.
Your words will likely show up in some future core dump on the subject.
nope.
but she’s unlikely to discuss it - ‘won’t be drawn into’ sounds pretty final.
i’m curious to hear what various opinions there are for and against - that’s not really possible on this BB.
but she’s unlikely to discuss it - ‘won’t be drawn into’ sounds pretty final.
I think that is very wise. Pms included.
[QUOTE=slc2;3492381]
I don’t see either Baucher or Fillis as a positive influence.[/QUOTE]
That only means that you have not read enough and experienced enough…get out there and do that…and then report back ;)!!
This statement- was the equivalent of dropping your veil…HEY THERE!!!
Wow - if someone doesn’t agree with your opinion, it is because they haven’t tried hard enough, or are not educated or well read enough?
Sorry, not buying. That is a very, very old saw. And still doesn’t work. I understand what good they have both done, I don’t think it’s sufficient to offset the problems created. That’s my opinion. Baucher was extremely controversial during his lifetime and there IS a reason for that. There are extensive writings on the not-so-much-admiring side.
This is my feeling about it - almost every horse trainer has taken away little bits and pieces of Fillis and Baucher to their tool box, but not the whole ball of wax.
The people who disagreed with him were not disagreeing because they were not well enough read. They watched him, they didn’t like it, on the whole, they disagreed with what he was doing. There were numerous tracts published during that time ‘Against Baucher’. Yes, yes, I’ve read all the ‘you’re only against it because you’re not talented enough to do it’, and I don’t buy that either. As well as the ‘the Germans want to take over the world, Baucher was in the way’. Nope. Don’t buy that either. Anti-baucherist writings also came out of the SRS, so it wasn’t just a ‘German thing’.
Being against Baucher’s influence and method or many parts of it, is a valid position for a dressage rider to take. It does not need to be explained ad nauseum.
Sorry, I don’t agree with doing GP in six months from breaking, yes I have seen the proponents ‘piaffing’ on just-backed young horses. I don’t like it. Also the cantering backwards, or a lot of the rest of it, especially the overuse of the hand and ‘lightness’ obtained in that way from the bridle. There are a few tricks I can take away, like Philippe Carl, but even at that, I have even seen the tricks done better, and boy I think one better be real careful.
Yes, I’ve seen the ‘wonderful’ videos of one of his inventions - cantering backwards - they make me sick. I think it looks absolutely horrible, and to see someone do that for 20 min on a stone patio doesn’t impress me either. I would never work with someone who would do that or even make positive statements about riding that way. Same with much of what he did. I don’t find the jambette at the canter or ANY of the work that came out of that phase as ‘classical’ dressage.
Classical dressage is about pure gaits, first and foremost. There is a TON of stuff that was done in the old days that does not fit that requirement, old or not, it doesn’t fit that definition.
Whether it’s fascinating or dramatic looking or not, it still doesn’t fit that requirement. Just because something is old or unfamiliar or not in the GP test today, doesn’t automatically mean it passes that requirement.
That’s why most of that stuff is not done at the Spanish Riding School. Notice the Spanish Riding School isn’t going around cantering backwards, lifting heads with the reins, Spanish Walk and all that. There’s a reason for that. I think of them most of the time as the bellwether. If they’re not doing ABC, there’s a reason. A good reason.
The reason there was such an outcry against the 1 tempe changes Baucher supposedly invented was because they looked like the description given - a lateral gait, not by any stretch a canter, as one writer said, ‘a kind of amble’ (meaning a pacing gait). The first objection made was that the horse was not cantering, and that’s where the objection came from.
It took YEARS to dispell the horrible impression of the manouver and to get it into the GP test and for people to develop it as a 3 beat canter gait. No one with any classical background would accept such a horrid looking thing. It has to be done in a pure canter stride to be acceptable.
In fact, I have spent a lot of time studying both, picked thru Racinet on Baucher line by line, and have seen how Fillis directly affected Russian dressage, and read much about Baucher on his death bed saying, ‘I was wrong’. Baucher also completely recanted his first work phase.
Sorry, not buying it - cutting someone down and saying they haven’t tried enough if they don’t agree with you. It’s perfectly alright for me to be in the not-so-much-admiring Baucher camp, I would take a couple tricks away, but not many, same with Fillis.
It’s not a small camp, and as far as further ‘defenses’ of my position or ‘answering questions’ that are couched in insults and ridicule, that’s not going to happen, that is no way to have a discussion.
Anyone who is interested in the other side can do their own research. I’m not interested in ‘converting’ anyone.
I guess you touched a nerve, Sabine.:lol:
Sjef already decided. National coach and president of the Bahamas:D
No, nobody hit a nerve. If I don’t reply, I’m a hypocrit and a coward and can’t stand to be proven wrong, if I do reply, someone ‘hit a nerve’ and I am some sort of virtual catfish that got speared.
Egon, are you not feeling well? That was real weak. Where’s the personal insults, accusations of lying and hypocrisy?:lol::lol:
Do you people really aspire to have every thread in which you post locked?
The posturing and arguing is really beyond belief. If you are that intelligent and that versed in dressage history/training/gossip/whatever, please be so kind as to share your knowledge (if it is real knowledge) with the folks on this board who might like to have it.
If you would like to fight, I suggest that you take it outside. :lol:
Thanks!!
Hum
