My very first horse (13-year old OTTB) did not lay down to sleep. He would roll when turned out but he didn’t lay down to sleep. At the time, I guess I didn’t realize it was unusual. The one time I saw him laying in his stall, I knew something was wrong… he was beginning to colic.
Well, I f*cking jinxed myself. I just watched him fall hard onto his knees. When he got up he pawed at his hay net then backed up to the wall and picked up his hind legs a bunch of times. That’s what caught my eye on the video and I was worried he might be colicking but I rewound and saw the fall. The falls seem to start with a hind leg suddenly kicking forward, but I don’t know wtf that means. He’s already dozing off again. I’m so distraught. I wish I could feel hopeful that the vets will figure it out next week.
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I realize you’ve probably already seen the article with this reference, but sharing anyhow: “Horse owners who feel they need more help with their animal’s sleep problems than their regular vet can provide can contact the large animal clinic at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine at 1-530-752-0290. They will generally be asked to submit several days’ worth of 24-hour videos of their horse.”
Thank you! Yeah, I did that with NBC instead at Vet #1’s recommendation. I guess something to keep in mind for the future, though if they come up with blanks next week I don’t know what I’ll do.
One positive observation from today, though it’s a little soon to be too excited. I hauled him out to one of the barn where I take lessons. Since early this year he has been fixated on a herd of cattle at a neighboring farm, even if they aren’t visible. Today he barely glanced in their direction. Maybe cow-phobia is a niche EPM symptom that he’s now starting to get over. 
Maybe if I’m really lucky, fear of nonexistent cows is also what’s keeping him from lying down! What do cows hate? I’ll hang whatever that is in his stall for him.
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That is so curious. We have an university extension farm next to us, and a few times a year they move the cows around in a way that makes them scream all day/night. Maybe taking calves, although I never see them, only adult cows. Anyhow, both of my horses are so terrified they stand in the far corner of the field and will not come to the barn yard for anything. They don’t seem to adjust quickly, either. Every time it happens it’s like fresh hell. When I do get them in, they stand panicky at the window looking for the cows. It takes days for things to get back to normal.
Well, as I feared, we did the New Bolton thing and still don’t have good answers. He was seen by sports med, neuro, and opthalmology because he has a little cataract. Sports med vet (who was awesome) said there are things she could nitpick if I had brought him in for performance issues but nothing that should cause him to not lie down and nothing blockable. Neuro said they’d grade him 1/5 but that’s a pretty inconclusive level that could mean neuro deficits or could mean something else. They palpated his neck and back pretty darn hard and couldn’t get a repeatable reaction. They repeated his neck rads with their better equipment which AGAIN showed nothing concerning. I had booked him for a neck CT but with no strong evidence that it’s needed we decided to scope for ulcers first.
They were thinking maybe glandular ulcers but he has grade 3 squamous ulcers in a very discrete area of the “lesser curvature,” with the rest looking healthy. They said lying down would cause acid to rise in his stomach and irritate the ulcers, but it certainly isn’t a smoking gun. Then there’s the question of why he has ulcers in the first place and whether there’s some underlying issue that’s causing both the ulcers and the sleep deprivation.
Treatment is GastroGard once a day and sucralfate twice a day. I’m pretty confused about timing those meds and meals, and am looking at other threads to try to figure out a good schedule for him. I haven’t gotten written instructions yet but the vet said GastroGard should be on an empty stomach–then I read that sucralfate should also be “one hour before or one hour after meals”? He gets about 3.5 lb of TC Senior Gold, flax, salt, and hoof supps around 7 am and 4-6 pm and is typically turned out on grass overnight, then gets free choice grass hay during the day. Right now I’m tapped out and I can’t wrap my head around how to space out his meals and meds and turnout and grass and hay. I’ll add some alfalfa and Outlast again even though those seem to have done nothing for him in the past.
After a month we’ll re-scope and reevaluate the need for further diagnostics. Ideally he’ll start sleeping in the meantime but that seems like too much to hope for right now.
I’m feeling really despondent and somewhat regretting not doing the neck CT because that was the whole reason I went to New Bolton instead of staying closer to home, even though I know that’s the sunk cost fallacy talking. Two round-trip drives there in two days freakin sucked (well, one for him but two for me) and he seems to have lost 50-75 lbs overnight. Since we got home he’s been guzzling water and acting starving. I feel like I put him through a lot for a scope that could have been done locally.
Also I am super frustrated that I contacted Vet #1 in May specifically asking about ulcers and instead we went down this expensive neck pain rabbit hole. We haven’t completely 100% ruled out neck pain but at NBC they said it’s pretty rare (though not unheard of) to find something on CT when there was nothing concerning on rads. Plus his symptoms are all equivocal, meaning they could be neck or could be something else. If I had insisted on scoping earlier, this poor horse could have been treated for ulcers 3 months sooner and I could have potentially saved several thousand dollars.
Which brings me to final stressor: insurance / money. Insurance has still paid nothing for any of this and I also haven’t received reimbursement for my young horse’s very straightforward claim that I submitted two weeks ago. They’ve always been really quick in the past so I’m hoping it’s just a symptom of vacation season, but I am paranoid because of what’s going on with this claim. All vets agree it’s really wrong that they are excluding cervical and neurological issues while refusing to reimburse diagnostic expenses because there’s no diagnosis. What kind of logic is that? I paid $6k of vet bills in the last two weeks PLUS my freakin insurance premium for the new year, so my checking account is thoroughly depleted and while I have savings and am in no danger of starving, it is stressful and depressing. I really love my horses and think both my riding horses are legitimately very special, but I am ready to be done and have a life that doesn’t revolve around trying to keep these self-destructive creatures happy and healthy. 
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I’m so sorry you didn’t get conclusive answers. And also sorry about the insurance. I didn’t get my horse insured, which I’ve regretted given how much I have spent on vet bills over the past few years, but at least I haven’t had to fight with an insurance company.
On the gastrogard and sucralfate, trying to figure out the timing is a nightmare. I also board, and so some things just aren’t feasible. So you just do the best you can. My horse got gastrogard first thing in the morning, then sucralfate with her am meal 30-45 minutes later. Then second dose of sucralfate with her pm meal. The biggest issue to be aware of is that Sucralfate will bind with and inhibit the absorption of other meds/supplements/etc so you definitely don’t want to feed it with supplements. But I think most people end up feeding it with grain.
I’m also curious to know who Vet #1 is that is seeing neck issues that no one else sees.
ETA: Oops. Left out the word don’t. Definitely don’t feed sucralfate with supplements or other meds.
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Now I’ve been up with him since 3:30 am because he’s acting colicky. 
oh no. I hope by now that has resolved. It’s exhausting for them to be away in the hospital; in addition to having feed withheld and being in a strange place, I’m sure he wasn’t drinking all that he should.
The way I approached those two was to give the GG and then do some quick clean up, put hay outside, whatever, and then feed breakfast and turn out. I would give sucralfate in the middle of the day when it was more likely he didn’t have a belly full of hay or grass - like after he had been dozing. In your case, I’d give the GG before dinner/turnout. I’d give sucralfate when he comes in in the morning. I am not positive but I don’t think anything you are feeding in his grain will bind with the sucralfate and downgrade its efficacy.
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You ruled out a lot of stuff at the best facility in the area. Even if you don’t have THE answer, you’ve eliminated alternates. Even though the drive sucks (been there myself, twice in the last year), you made forward progress 
Boy I hear you there. Mystery “not rightness” for almost two years now, various diagnoses, suspensory surgery a year ago, back to work for the last 5 months (well, getting fit again after surgery in order to get back to work), and now a new stifle injury - rest and recheck in 3 months. I’m debating turning out for a year and just taking a financial and mental/emotional break. I love my horse dearly but it’s been emotionally exhausting.
Oh no. So sorry and I hope it passes quickly and uneventfully!
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Oh man. On the one hand very happy to hear that it is “just ulcers” versus something that could be career ending. I could see how the discomfort in lying down could cause him to not want to sleep. It is super frustrating driving home with a ‘still-NQR’ horse and no definitive solution forward; BTDT, but you are doing your very best and have involved the very best.
Dosing GG + sucra is such a PITA. It’s very difficult - on the one hand, you want them to have 24/7 hay to help buffer their stomach, but then the meds require an empty stomach, which does beg the question of if that would perpetuate the generation of more ulcers.
I am so sorry you’re dealing with all of this. I hope your insurance company responds soon re: Petey, and they are amenable to work with going forward on the diagnostics you’ve spent on your gelding. I hope he is feeling better this morning.
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Thank you all, he is feeling better now. He was definitely dehydrated. I decided that a little grass and freedom would be best for everyone’s health (my mental health included, haha) so I turned them out for 2 hours this morning before work and Petey did not immediately start bleeding from his heel wound like he did when I tried it last week! If I can get them back on overnight turnout I think everything will seem a little better.
Question: is it weird that they only gave me 14 days of sucralfate and 28 days of GastroGard? Is that enough sucralfate? I double-checked that it was not an error. Dr Google seems to be suggesting 21 days of sucralfate as a minimum. I don’t like second-guessing vets but I have some trust issues after past experiences.
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I would not hesitate to reach out and ask for clarification. I double check everything nowadays since I also have trust issues (and they are human also, and capable of making mistakes). I don’t know anyone nowadays that has only used sulcrafate for only 14 days - it’s usually on the order of 21-30 days or more.
Glad your boys are feeling better!
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Thank you! I did email and the vet said yes, 14 days is correct. I think I will inquire about extending that…
P.S., I’m sorry about the issues you’ve had with your horse! A year of Dr Green sounds like a reasonable step. If your horse happens to be a hard-ass mare who wants a gelding to stand watch over, let me know and she can vacation at my place! 
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Having just received the discharge notes, I don’t know if they will help my insurance woes or compound them, but I guess it is what it is.
Also I’m puzzled at this:
“Provide more fat-based and fewer non-structural carbohydrate-based calories in the concentrate portion of the diet such as Platinum Strategy Healthy Edge (substitute for the current grain) or Platinum Outlast Gastric Support (a supplement). This can also be supplemented in the form of Omega-3 fatty acids, such as Platinum Healthy Weight or Kentucky Equine Research EO-3.”
The first two “Platinums” are obviously supposed to be “Purina.” I disagree that Strategy HE would be a good substitute for his current grain, which is TSC Senior Gold. Obviously this is a copy/paste thing that they use for all ulcer cases but…
Platinum Outlast 
Hopefully the ulcer meds help horsie feel better.
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The benefit of the Purina Outlast doesn’t last all that long after feeding, as I understand it. I did not see any benefit from the EO3 for ulcers. Do they just him to get more calories from fat? The PP Healthy Weight I would recommend.
Thank you! And not sure if you are seriously looking for a temporary boarder, but if you are, ping me! She’s an easy going, pleasant, very sweet mare, gets along with just about everyone 
As an aside, I was just at the doctor’s getting my own sleep consult. The doc recommended trazadone for myself (in addition to a sleep study). I’ll admit I didn’t read the whole thread, but I wonder if this is something they ever recommend for horses with sleep dep? This doc was pretty clear that they often use it, seemingly chronically, in humans to help with sleep. I know my mare is on it to keep her quiet while still allowing her normal turnout while the stifle heals. Haven’t asked her how her sleep has been 
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I can confirm that trazodone is indeed used for sleep deprivation in horses, sadly it did nothing for the horse I had it prescribed for. It didn’t seem to cause any issues so it might be worth a try if your vet agrees.
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I have taken 75-150mg of Trazadone for YEARS for sleep. Wonderful med.
