Sleep Deprivation & Melatonin

[alliefinale]

Hi All,
Hoping to benefit from the massive experience on this site. I did a search on melatonin, but most are quite old, so hoping for some updated information. I have an older mare (18) who lost her best buddy of 13 years a few months ago (they were SUPER tight). I recently got a new mare who is a little bit of a bully to old mare, harasses her a little but not mean - new mare is definitely herd leader (3 in the herd, 2 mares, 1 gelding). Old mare has some neurologic baggage, but is sound and seemingly pain free.

Old mare hasn’t laid down in months and has had narcoleptic events recently, triggered by saddling - she’s since been retired from riding (not because of that, just because it was time for other reasons). I feel fairly confident that loss of buddy and addition of new mare is contributing, but her lack of lying down started before new mare came. She has a general sense of anxiety all the time - pleasant to deal with, but just not settled and seeming peaceful.

Recent conversation with vet suggested trying melatonin. I haven’t been able to find any information on melatonin for sleep deprivation in horses and vet doesn’t have a lot of experience with it. Anyone have any success with melatonin - how much, how to use, etc - or any other product that helped them settle and lie down?

No radios at night, barn is quiet and dark, big stalls, well bedded, plenty of hay, just the 3 of them, doors closed at night so no external critters.

Thanks!
Sleepless in NJ

[LadyB]

I am unable to provide anything on using Melatonin, but I sure do hope someone can respond. My barn mates mare has sleep deprivation, this would be a huge help! Fingers crossed someone will chime in!

[Feathered_Feet]

I have no specific experience with melatonin in horses, but it is an natural hormone that most (if not all) mammals produce at the onset of sundown, and helps us feel sleepy. I am not a vet or medical doctor, but as far as I know, there are few (if any) downsides to it. I would just get some pills and try some. 5 mg is kind of a generous dose for humans (in my experience), but it may not be linear based on weight (kinda how the nexium dose in horses is not 10x the nexium dose is humans), so, if I were in your position, I would try some 10 mg pills (pretty sure they exist) in pony’s feed at night, and start there. You can always go up if needed.

Again, I have no direct experience with this in horses, but as a reasonable smart horse owner, I think this is sufficiently low-risk that I would feel comfortable experimenting to find what works.

Good luck and please report back!

[Posting_Trot]

Is it possible that the mare doesn’t want to lie down because she’s concerned about not being able to get up? Or maybe it just hurts to go down and up because of arthritis?

Have you tried giving her some bute over several days, just to see if that–by relieving pain–gets her to lie down?

I think I’d try bute before I experimented with melatonin, unless you do the melatonin trial with the input of your vet who helps with dosage, a discussion of possible adverse side-effects, etc.

Good luck!

Edited to add: Here’s a brief article on melatonin in horses that’s an interesting read:

https://ker.com/equinews/melatonin-and-cool-diets-for-hot-horses/

and a more in-depth discussion from The Horse:

https://thehorse.com/110342/the-otherwise-apparently-healthy-collapsing-horse/

[alliefinale]

We don’t think she has trouble getting up - I’ve watched her in the field, and while she’s not a big roller outside, doesn’t seem to have any trouble getting up when she does. She’s had her hocks injected last fall and her back/neck injected last April and accupuncture/chiro every 3 months - these seem to be time frames for her. With all the snow we have now, she’s not very active outside even tho we’ve plowed paths and areas for them. Worth considering and keeping an eye on for sure.

Definitely having the vet input before trying to treat with melatonin on my own!

Thanks for the articles - I had seem them, but will perhaps re-read to see if I missed anything the first time.

[lenapesadie]

I’m with the poster that suggested the bute trial.

[Highflyer1]

I used it on my headshaker many years ago and didn’t see any results (other than his winter coat coming in two months early). The doseage for that was 15mg.

[Milocalwinnings]

I’m dealing with this now with my gelding. Vet is supposed to get me melatonin dose but I haven’t heard back yet.

He has low-grade EPM. He’s turned out for 8-10 hours a day and stalled at night. He sleep crashes most nights - he just is so tired he starts to doze off and falls into the wall. He has no trouble getting up if he does lay down or if he rolls etc. However I do wonder if he has some psychological factors going on related to the neuro compromise that make him nervous to be in a down (vulnerable) position.

I highly suggest a bute trial. He didn’t appear to have any significant pain issues but because of his neuro history I thought maybe his quirkiness could actually be chronic pain. I think the bute has helped significantly.

Some things I’ve done that helped a bit but not enough to be consistent (he would lay down for ~4 minutes and get back up, confirmed via camera footage):
-Added a bale of straw for a more comfortable place to lay down - seemed to help but not consistently enough to say it was super beneficial.
-Back on Track blanket - same result as the straw.

Since doing the following he has started laying down for ~20-30 mins a night this week.
-Changed stalls to one without a buddy nagging him next door.
-Continued with the straw bedding.
-BUTE TRIAL
-Acupuncture - he’s only had one session and hard to say if it was this or the bute that is helping, I would argue the bute first but do think he benefitted from the acupuncture.

[alliefinale]

Thanks, that’s helpful. Mare has had EPM in the past and does have some neuro deficits. And there’s definitely something going on in her mind or emotions. I’m talking to my vet today and will discuss a bute therapy - she’s had pretty bad ulcers in the past (no ulcers now) so I’m hesitant to use bute unless there is a definite need. I have a back on track blanket that I’ll try on her to see if it helps and continue with the accupuncture (which I think helped alot during her EPM treatment years ago).

[Simkie]

If you’re concerned about gastric ulcers with bute use, do a trial of Equioxx instead. It greatly reduces your risk.

I agree with the others that a trial of pain meds would be really, really useful here.

[theresak]

I have a horse that’s very insecure/herd bound in his stall with some physical issues/stiffness. After some herd and herd leader changes as well as a 4 month stall rest, he stopped sleeping in his stall and we’ve never been able to get him to sleep lying down at night. It’s most likely the changes in your herd kicked off the sleep deprivation. If you have access to a really good herd/herd leader, you could try that. Keep moving things around and addressing physical issues, but you may never figure it out.

[alliefinale]

Thanks, I have another one on equioxx so i’ll give that a try

[alliefinale]

What makes a good herd leader? I just have the 3 who are turned out together. Gelding who is easy going, independent but gets along with the girls. New mare who is a bit bossy but doesn’t do anything mean and old mare who is a bit depressed (about losing best bud, in my opinion) who takes things too personally. They have plenty of room for the 3 of them - almost 10 acres of snow with some cleared paths and spaces. I’m going to try the Equioxx and see if that helps, and then go from there. Can’t wait for spring and some sunshine!

[theresak]

You might need a slightly larger herd. A good herd leader is a benevolent dictator. The quietly but firmly direct everyone’s activity such as - we go here and eat, then we go over here and nap, then we go get water. They just lead the group around, allowing pairs to play and nap, but all the horses follow them.

[Pezanos]

I’m not sure if melatonin will help because sleep deprivation in horses is rarely a problem with sleep. Rather it is more commonly a reluctance to lie down for whatever reason: anxiety (doesn’t feel safe lying down), pain, or other structural deficit. UC Davis has a whole department devoted to recumbent sleep disorders and it’s worth having your vet give them a call. Also, the ability to roll does not mean horse does not have a pain issue that is not letting them lie down for a period of time.

Equine Sleep and Sleep Disorders