Sliders on a Ranch Riding horse

[paulosey]

I show in local Ranch Horse classes, which are sparse, but getting more popular in Atlantic Canada. A friend just got sliding plates put on her horse for Ranch classes.

A local judge, who is AQHA and APHA accredited, said he would mark a Ranch Horse higher if they slid in a stop.

This goes against everything I understand a Ranch horse should be. I know a lot of failed Reining horses are entering the Ranch classes, but they should go like a Ranch horse, not the other way round.

Am I off the mark on this?

[Bluey]

@paulosey

I show in local Ranch Horse classes, which are sparse, but getting more popular in Atlantic Canada. A friend just got sliding plates put on her horse for Ranch classes.

A local judge, who is AQHA and APHA accredited, said he would mark a Ranch Horse higher if they slid in a stop.

This goes against everything I understand a Ranch horse should be. I know a lot of failed Reining horses are entering the Ranch classes, but they should go like a Ranch horse, not the other way round.

Am I off the mark on this?

No, you are not off the mark, sliders are specifically to protect horse’s hocks in the stop, so the feet slide, don’t drag or skip sticking in the ground.

That judge is asking for something that doesn’t make sense for ranch riding, sliding stops are accidentals, not a movement wanted in ranch work!

Maybe you can bring that up with the association regulating those shows, or the management?

[paulosey]

I was at a local “in the judges eye” seminar when he said this and I strongly disagreed. Since he wasn’t judging, I don’t think I can go to the Assoc. Also, this is a very small community and he is the only accredited judge in the area, so I don’t want to make too many waves.

[Bluey]

@paulosey

I was at a local “in the judges eye” seminar when he said this and I strongly disagreed. Since he wasn’t judging, I don’t think I can go to the Assoc. Also, this is a very small community and he is the only accredited judge in the area, so I don’t want to make too many waves.

Maybe the judge thought about his remark afterwards and decided not to repeat it?
Keep talking, don’t point fingers at that judge, just be sure to let others know what sliders are for and that in all other areas of riding they are not appropriate and why.

[paulosey]

I have messaged someone with a lot of knowledge and is highly respected in Ranch, to get their opinion. I hope they agree and I can use his learned opinion to hopefully stop this trend. I only hope he responds to my message

[Paint_Party]

My mare had sliders on the back when I bought her because she was also competing in reining. But I only do the ranch division and an occasional ranch versatility show, so I had the sliders pulled off a year ago. They just aren’t necessary. Even if ranch reining is included in the class list, which isn’t often, sliders aren’t necessary for the type of stop that’s expected in that class.

To be sure, no judge wants to see a hollow backed, stiff legged stop in any ranch class. They don’t want several steps at the walk (the horrors!) before the horse stops, either. Ideally, the horse should engage its hind end and sit a little bit. A few steps of a “scoot” if you’re stopping at the end of an extended trot or lope will get you pluses. But you don’t need sliders for that.

Of course, a schooled reiner wearing sliders and creating dramatic sliding stops might win a ranch reining class. But overall, a winning ranch horse is prompt in its transitions, is handy to ride, but has a definite softness to it. It’s an all-around working horse that (ideally) a cowboy or cowgirl has to sit on for 6-8 hours a day while earning a living. That horse doesn’t need sliders.

[Foxglove]

Just Thursday I emailed ARHA and asked a question on rules. My email was returned on Friday with a definitive answer. I suggest you email and ask the governing organization.

Bob and I just started working with cows. We rent a herd of 10 and a cow man from 6-8 on Thursdays. The cow man openly says he does not show ranch boxing (what I want to do) but does show in penning and sorting (different group, different rules). He urged me to ride Bob in a snaffle stating, “He’ll follow his nose better.” I said at 10, Bob was past the “snaffle age.” The cow man said, “everyone shows in a snaffle.” —ok, news to me, but I didn’t pay to argue with him, just work with his cows and learn about cow work.

The next day I emailed ARHA whose rules govern the Ranch Horse Association of Michigan shows where I show. I asked my snaffle v curb question. Finite, and without equivocation the response was: Bob, at ten years old, must show in a shanked bit and be ridden one-handed.

My trainer’s boss (the head trainer) is also a Ranch Horse Judge (among many, many other judging certificates or cards). When the question came up some time ago while I was riding Bob there, according to him, fast spins and long slides are not desirable in Ranch Horse. He didn’t say anything stronger, like forbidden or illegal, he said, [fast spins and sliding stops] . . .“Won’t get you more points.” He said a correct turn and a solid stop are what he looks for.

Again, I’d email the ARHA . . .their club; their rules. And me, being me, I’d forward their answer to the person who told you he’d mark a sliding stop higher.

I don’t show Ranch Horse Reining, so maybe it is desirable there.

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

Where in Michigan are you?

I am in West Michigan, Zeeland area.

I only trail ride (in a dressage saddle), but it’s fun to know other Michigan people are here.

[beau159]

@paulosey

I show in local Ranch Horse classes, which are sparse, but getting more popular in Atlantic Canada. A friend just got sliding plates put on her horse for Ranch classes.

A local judge, who is AQHA and APHA accredited, said he would mark a Ranch Horse higher if they slid in a stop.

This goes against everything I understand a Ranch horse should be. I know a lot of failed Reining horses are entering the Ranch classes, but they should go like a Ranch horse, not the other way round.

Am I off the mark on this?

I am finding there are still a lot of AQHA judges out there that have no darn clue what a Ranch Horse is supposed to do in the ranch horse classes.

And it’s sad.

I hear this directly from other AQHA judges, who are also mad that there are AQHA judges that have no clue.

So sounds like the judge you talked to, is one of the ones that has no clue how to judge a ranch horse class. Unfortunately, not much you can do about it (that I have found).

[cmdrcltr]

You definitely need to check your organization’s rules for bits. The East Coast Ranch Riding Association, which governs any of the shows I attend, allows horses of any age to show in a snaffle. Clearly that is different from ARHA and probably AQHA.

It was one of the things I liked about showing ranch when I had my QH Mare because at 8 she had never been ridden in a curb bit or one-handed, and coming from the English world, I didn’t have the know-how to train her. I was attending the shows with friends from my barn and riding in a western saddle (from doing some western dressage).

But to the point, check your organization’s rules.

[Paint_Party]

@beau159

I am finding there are still a lot of AQHA judges out there that have no darn clue what a Ranch Horse is supposed to do in the ranch horse classes.

I feels ya’.

At shows affiliated with my state ranch versatility association, no problem. But if I’m at a smaller, one-day AQHA show or an open show series doing ranch classes, it’s often… interesting. Especially if the judge is more western pleasure based. The ranch trail and ranch rail (ranch pleasure) end up being judged like regular trail and regular western pleasure. Nope. Not. The. Same. Things.

[bugsynskeeter1]

I could be wrong, but I thought AQHA removed the lope to stop transition in ranch classes specifically to remove the issue with a sliding stop (at least at the World Show). This was after a push a few years ago to make it so horses could NOT show in ranch classes in sliding plates.

[paulosey]

Did they ever pass the rule disallowing sliding plates?

BTW, I did get a response from a respected man in Ranch riding. He said in response to my question whether horses, who were wearing sliders, should not be marked higher in Ranch for some sliding in a stop: “You are right but a lot of the show arenas have reining type ground AND many judges today are acclimated to the reining horse. Not saying that is right, just reality. I don’t think they should slide much, if at all, but if a horse tries to engage their hocks/loins, they will probably slide some. I think only 2 AQHA patterns have a stop out of the lope so that helps address the issue. Now, if they slide on a transition from the lope to the trot, it should be considered a break of gait.”

I am not sure this is the cut and dried answer I was hoping for.

[bugsynskeeter1]

No - it was not passed. The removal of the lope to stop transition was a part of satisfying those that were mad about the sliding stops.

[c0608524]

@Jackie_amp_Starlette

Where in Michigan are you?

I am in West Michigan, Zeeland area.

I only trail ride (in a dressage saddle), but it’s fun to know other Michigan people are here.

Also curious!

I’m in Ontario but literally look at Michigan out my front door. Always neat to hear about horse goings on so close to home (even if it’s across an international boarder!)

[Paint_Party]

I just did the ranch classes at an open show, which is part of a popular high point series, down in the greater Phoenix area. In the ranch trail, after I picked up the slicker and hung it back up, I had to immediately lope to the gate and stop before doing a left-handed push. My trainer often reminds me to be “soft and pretty” but sometimes it’s a challenge.

[beau159]

@paulosey

BTW, I did get a response from a respected man in Ranch riding. He said in response to my question whether horses, who were wearing sliders, should not be marked higher in Ranch for some sliding in a stop: “You are right but a lot of the show arenas have reining type ground AND many judges today are acclimated to the reining horse. Not saying that is right, just reality. I don’t think they should slide much, if at all, but if a horse tries to engage their hocks/loins, they will probably slide some. I think only 2 AQHA patterns have a stop out of the lope so that helps address the issue. Now, if they slide on a transition from the lope to the trot, it should be considered a break of gait.”

The other thing I have been told about sliders, is to think of it this way: TRULY, the ranch horse classes are supposed to be for horses that can be in the show pen one day, and then literally doing an honest day’s work on the ranch the next day.

Are you going to be trotting and loping your horse through the grass pasture, rocks and all, wearing SLIDERS? No, you are not (because that’s dangerous) and that is why sliders have no place in the ranch show pen. Yes, I understand it’s a show pen, but to keep the trueness of the event and what/why it was created, it is to showcase the ranch horse. A ranch horse doesn’t wear sliders.

And that’s the part a lot of judges miss. Because they don’t think about that, and they are supposed to.

[Bluey]

@beau159

The other thing I have been told about sliders, is to think of it this way: TRULY, the ranch horse classes are supposed to be for horses that can be in the show pen one day, and then literally doing an honest day’s work on the ranch the next day.

Are you going to be trotting and loping your horse through the grass pasture, rocks and all, wearing SLIDERS? No, you are not (because that’s dangerous) and that is why sliders have no place in the ranch show pen. Yes, I understand it’s a show pen, but to keep the trueness of the event and what/why it was created, it is to showcase the ranch horse. A ranch horse doesn’t wear sliders.

And that’s the part a lot of judges miss. Because they don’t think about that, and they are supposed to.

Except in shows with other than ranch classes, if a horse is also entered in regular reining it needs sliders and is not ideal but safe enough to use them for ranch classes in an arena.
The trick is to train horse and rider and judges for ranch classes not to ask for a sliding stop or reward it if a horse slides in any stop?
That some judge wants to give points for sliding in ranch classes itself is questionable, sliders or not,

[paulosey]

Well, I know I am not allowed to cross enter into Hunter Under Saddle if I show Ranch in the APHC. The only other riding classes I can go in are the Horsemanship and Reining. This forces a lot of people in the smaller shows in my area, to have sliders on their horses, so they can do more than a handful of classes once they have paid the exorbitant fees to enter. Anyway, I guess that’s how it is right now. There are huge Ranch shows in Maine, which is close to me, so I do have an alternative to go and show.

[bugsynskeeter1]

I remember this being discussed in reference to AQHA shows, specifically the world show. That was where the biggest concern was at the time. This was also 5+ years ago, so I am sure there have been changes since then.