Slobbers from eating fresh clover.

[Sansena]

Has anyone experienced long-term negative side effects from this? I’ve encountered many, many horses with this in my work. No-one has been terribly concerned, from vets, to owners, to blacksmiths, to trainers, to staff at each of these barns. Until now. I have one very sweet, very lovely customer who’s big on researching everything who seems to be under the impression that this is ‘bad’ for her horse.

I haven’t had a chance to speak with her at length about it, and I’m sure she has good, valid reasons. But google isn’t helping me right now – aside from the remote possibility of dehydration-- and she & I won’t be able to speak until mid week.

Can CoTH please share if they’re aware of anything negative? Thanks.

[Sansena]

And again… Key word: Experienced.

Not what you have read, or heard that a friend of a friend’s horse experienced.

Thanks.

[stb]

For years I worked at a therapeutic riding facility that had lots of clover and multiple horse with slobbers. A few were so bad that they were literally pouring slobber. I never saw any ill effects from it. It was certainly a nuisance, and it didn’t seem ideal to my eye, but it seemed to be a non issue. Just my limited experience.

[trubandloki]

My horse had it really bad one summer. I was shocked how much slobber could pour out of his mouth. Other than the annoyance of it, like you, no issues experienced.

I would be interested in hearing what this boarder thinks the issues might be. When she updates you please post and let us know.

[JB]

The only thing I’ve ever found documented (from a reliable source) is hydration. It is possible for a horse to become dehydrated, but that’s the rare exception, and probably only with horses already prone to not drinking enough.

I’ve never heard of this actually happening though, which helps point to it being at best, very uncommon.

[Sansena]

Thank you everyone. Yes, I too, have only heard of the possibility of dehydration, but have never witnessed that in my 30+ years of working with horses…

[alicen]

http://extension.psu.edu/animals/equine/pasture-weed-management/weeds-toxic-plants/plants-toxic-to-horses-rhizoctonia-fungus-on-white-and-red-clover

Incredible slobbers in a couple of Fjords during one drought year. No apparent effects.

[Lyssabd]

My horse had slobber so bad one summer, he was leaving a lake on the aisle every time I brought him in. I’ll have to try to find the picture.

I added some electrolytes to his feed on days he worked to make sure he wasn’t getting dehydrated, but it never bothered him and he was always fine. When I was working as a camp counselor as a teenager, all the ponies lived out in a big field with clover, slobbered all over everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, trotting around drooling much to the kids’ delight, and managed to do tiny tot lessons all day without issue.

As someone mentioned above, I worry about hydration but have never actually seen an issue!

[Mango20]

I’ve never experienced or even heard of a problem with clover slobbers in my 40+ years with horses.

[trubandloki]

@Lyssabd

My horse had slobber so bad one summer, he was leaving a lake on the aisle every time I brought him in. I’ll have to try to find the picture.

So maybe slipping on the slime lake is a risk? :lol:

[JB]

The concrete outside my biggest slobbering horse has a permanent stain :disgust:

[Color_of_Light]

Not only fresh clover, but also in hay. That’s why I’d never buy clover hay. I’ve always thought slobbers was only from red clover only. I’ve never had a horse slobber from white clover, but I see slobbers can occur with red (rose/purple), white, alsike (whitish pink) clover and even alfalfa. It’s caused by a fungus called Rhizoctonia leguminicola (also called black patch), which produces the mycotoxin slaframine or slobber factor. There are a few risks associated with eating clover, see below

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/…o_slobbers.htm

"Slaframine poisoning (Slobbers) (Figure 1) should be considered, especially in a cooler and wetter spring or fall. Spring and fall provide ideal environmental conditions for the proliferation of clovers in pastures. The cooler wet conditions are also ideal for the growth of the fungus Rhizoctonia leguminicola, commonly known as black patch. The fungus infects red clover (Trifolium pratense), white clover (Trifolium repens), alsike clover (Trifolium hybridum) and alfalfa. The name ‘black patch’ is derived from the bronze to black spots or rings observed on the leaves and stems (2). Rhizoctonia leguminicola produces the mycotoxin slaframine or slobber factor. It can be present on both pasture and in stored dry hay. The fungus persists on infected fields from year to year. Slaframine can be active in stored hay for 10 months or more; however, its biological activity does decrease. Fresh hay can contain the equivalent of 50-100 ppm slaframine, which can decrease after 10 months by 10-fold to 7 ppm. Concentrations above 10 ppm may be associated with clinical signs (3). The analysis for slaframine (1-acetoxy-6-amino- octahydroindolizine) is not readily available.

The most common clinical signs observed in horses include: excess salivation, lacrimation, colic and diarrhea. One case reports abortion in a mare (4). Clinical signs often develop 1-3 hours after consumption of the contaminated forage and subside 48-72 hours after withdrawal from the offending forage. Atropine may provide symptomatic relief of salivation and diarrhea (3). Take Home Message

• Slaframine poisoning is non life threatening.
• No treatment is necessary, except changing the feed.
• Clovers can be an excellent source of nutrients but are occasionally associated with excessive salivation, oral ulcers, laminitis, colic, photosensitization and liver failure."

[Lyssabd]

@trubandloki

So maybe slipping on the slime lake is a risk? :lol:

Only for me apparently, I did go down HARD in a slobber puddle! Talk about a bruise to the butt, not to mention being a slime monster myself! :lol:

[alicen]

@Color of Light

The fungus persists on infected fields from year to year.

With this I have to disagree. The area with which I’m familiar hasn’t seen a return of the slobber symptoms for 22 years and counting.

[Zu_Zu]

No

[trubandloki]

@alicen

With this I have to disagree. The area with which I’m familiar hasn’t seen a return of the slobber symptoms for 22 years and counting.

I think it requires very specific conditions to thrive. Though it does seem like in 22 years that would happen.

[Sansena]

"Take Home Message

• Slaframine poisoning is non life threatening.
• No treatment is necessary, except changing the feed.
• Clovers can be an excellent source of nutrients but are occasionally associated with excessive salivation, oral ulcers, laminitis, colic, photosensitization and liver failure."

Aaaaand.. ^^this would be enough to scare the living daylights out of my customer. Colic, laminitis and liver failure..

There’s no point in tearing up the field/s and reseeding them without clover in the mix, right? I mean, the clover will creep back in eventually, yes?

[Simkie]

Perhaps your customer is sort of “cross referencing” with alsike toxicity?

http://www.producer.com/2004/09/alsike-clover-can-be-deadly-to-horses-animal-health/

[JB]

I am pretty certain the liver failure is only related to the Alsike clover, which is toxic to horses. White and red clover are not, and while I suppose it’s possible that large enough amounts for a “special” horse could cause problems with the liver, horses every where graze on high-clover fields without any issues.

The laminitis risk for red/white clover is really for the metabolically-challenged horse, not your normal healthy horse.

A given horse can have issues with legumes in general, so this would include alfalfa as well as clover, and develop photosensitivity issues. Again, not the normal healthy horse.

[Color_of_Light]

@JB

I am pretty certain the liver failure is only related to the Alsike clover, which is toxic to horses. White and red clover are not, and while I suppose it’s possible that large enough amounts for a “special” horse could cause problems with the liver, horses every where graze on high-clover fields without any issues.

The laminitis risk for red/white clover is really for the metabolically-challenged horse, not your normal healthy horse.

A given horse can have issues with legumes in general, so this would include alfalfa as well as clover, and develop photosensitivity issues. Again, not the normal healthy horse.

It doesn’t matter if the the horse is healthy or not. Any horse is susceptible to fungus Rhizoctonia leguminicola in the wrong concentration (>10 ppm associated with clinical signs). As noted above, the fungus infects red clover (Trifolium pratense), white clover (Trifolium repens), alsike clover (Trifolium hybridum) and alfalfa.

Photosensitization from clover or alfalfa is caused by >10 ppm rhizoctonia leguminicola. It can effect any horse, not just those metabolically challenged.

Laminitis risk from clover or alfalfa is due to >10 ppm rhizoctonia leguminicola concentration, It can effect any horse, not just those metabolically challenged.

Sweet clover is also a problem. It’s mold produces dicoumarol, a chemical that when consumed in high enough concentration, blocks normal blood clotting abilities. Dicoumarol is the same chemical that’s used in commercial rat poisons.

Again, it’s the concentration that matters, not the health level of the horse.