Smacking horses for bad behavior

[MinnesotanSoil]

I don’t know why this video has been on my mind lately, but it really had people riled up in the comments. I remember this one comment (I can’t find it anymore) under the video in which the commenter stated that their dad smacks their family horses all the time because it’s how horses teach each other what’s okay and what isn’t. This comment triggered a weeks-long argument (yes, really).
I recall another video of someone lightly smacking their horse on the nose for swinging around to bite that upset some people.

I’m curious to hear everyone else’s thoughts on smacking a horse for biting, kicking, or threatening. Although I’ve never smacked a horse or been in a situation where I even considered it, it doesn’t really seem like a huge deal to me.

[endlessclimb]

Two things unleash all holy hell 100% of the time for 3 seconds and that’s biting or kicking.

Running me over, depending on the circumstances, may also unleash 3 seconds of come to God.

Otherwise there’s generally no need.

[Renn_aissance]

If a horse is doing something dangerous to themselves or to me and their turnout buddy would have bitten them for it, I’m gonna swat them.

And then it’s over and we move on like it never happened.

Which is why (cf thread about treats at the lesson barn) my horses aren’t offensive about being hand fed.

Obviously, you exercise your discretion about whether the horse has lost their mind because they’re scared or confused, but generally that’s not why they’re biting or kicking at you. It may be why they’re crowding your space.

[Jackie_Cochran]

Part of the reason a slap with the hand can work is because of the sound, which seems to get the horse to notice you doing it.

The noise of the slap is proof to the horse that it is their HUMAN reprimanding them rather than another horse.

I always added a loud NO! too just before the slap landed on the horse.

[Lusoluv]

Yes, a slap may be necessary once in a great while if a horse has invaded your space - with his mouth, body, etc.

But I hate it when I see riders slapping their horse on the neck after, say a great jumper round. I know the rider is elated, but all I think is the horse puts out a great effort then is promptly slapped heartily several times on the neck. Yes, the rider is smiling and happy, but getting an open handed whack or three on the neck can’t feel good. I’d rather stroke them or scratch the withers!

[luvmyhackney]

I smacked my horse about 10 minutes ago for trying to kick me in the stomach when I was rebandaging his cut. I’m sure it isn’t the best feeling, but he also doesn’t get to kick me. Sometimes we have to do hard things for medical stuff.

[MunchingonHay]

First, why is horse biting, kicking, threatening? If its something malicious then yes. And I would still want to set horse up for success by NOT getting into a position where I feel I have to defend myself.

If the horse is reacting out of fear/nerves, then no. I need to approach differently. Playful? Different reaction from me, I would possibly growl, clap my hands and let them know I am not a play thing. Slapping could cause a buck in my direction since they are being playful.

I have had to reprimand them for doing something that could; hurt a human/handler, another horse/animal, and installing ground manners to become a solid citizen. This was mostly when I was working with babies/yearling/younger stock and an unhandled stallion. And it was never hard. Mostly just noise and never, ever between the nose and shoulder. Only on the main body of the horse. And you have to be quick like Endless Climb said up thread.

Growling loudly is effective too… sometimes buttons like this need to be installed to be respectful of people. Its best to do it when they are young.

Respect is a two way street.

@Lusoluv

But I hate it when I see riders slapping their horse on the neck after, say a great jumper round. I know the rider is elated, but all I think is the horse puts out a great effort then is promptly slapped heartily several times on the neck. Yes, the rider is smiling and happy, but getting an open handed whack or three on the neck can’t feel good. I’d rather stroke them or scratch the withers!

I had an animal communicator tell me that my gelding liked pets and strokes rather than slaps on his neck. Slaps felt like needles.

[RMJacobs]

I tended to growl at my horses for bad behavior. But they generally had good ground manners. I only got bitten twice, and once was when my pony was sedated for teeth and sheath cleaning. My vet said “oh, I forgot to tell you sometimes a sedated horse will bite when he’d never dream of it otherwise.” The other time did result in a smack. I was trying to determine if my large pony had a fever; my mare was very possessive of him, and she was worried about him and didn’t want me messing with him. She bit me hard. She got the three seconds of thinking she was about to die. I don’t care what the provocation is, you don’t bite humans.

Rebecca

[MinnesotanSoil]

Oh my goodness yes. I was guilty of aggressive patting when I first started riding because I saw everyone else doing it but good lord, it makes me wince now to see people thumping the horse upside its neck right after it did a good job.

[endlessclimb]

Oh I dislike seeing that too! For me it’s gentle pats, like a single you’d give off the inside rein for a brilliant movement, or a scratch.

[Scribbler]

@endlessclimb

Two things unleash all holy hell 100% of the time for 3 seconds and that’s biting or kicking.

Running me over, depending on the circumstances, may also unleash 3 seconds of come to God.

Otherwise there’s generally no need.

This. Also with my mare, I found that I needed to move her feet, that was the real lesson. She could play bite and slap all day but making her back away from me did the trick. Other mare you can’t really discipline at all or she has a meltdown. You can poke her cheek if she gets nibbly but if you send her away or really scare her you will regret it later

[endlessclimb]

I’ve always said “I don’t care if I’m amputating the horse’s leg with a hacksaw - they still aren’t allowed to kick me.”

These actions from 1200+ lb animals can kill you. It’s totally black and white between myself and my animals on this front. Do this - that happens. Every time. (Couple times and they no longer try it, ever).

[LCDR]

I learned the lesson about neck slaps, and went to neck strokes to indicate happiness. But one day I was really happy with my horses clear stadium round and decided that a big neck hug was in order - MISTAKE - he tried to buck off the perceived giant predator on his neck from the last jump all the way to the exit.

[trakehners]

Biting and kicking receive an immediate physical reprimand from me. Actively trying to run someone over (i.e. not because they spooked and did it accidentally) also does. I’m not messing with entertaining 1200 pounds trying to play nice when they put their body into it.

I do it so rarely that the one time my horse did bite me (he had been on stall rest, it’s not like him normally), quite literally ripped the belt loop off my breeches, and got a whack on the shoulder and loud “NO!” in response, he flew backward multiple steps and stared at me like I’d upended his entire existence (we then made up in the parking lot and went for his vet-prescribed tack walk. Thankfully his teeth got my belt rather than my hip).

I have, however, owned him since he was two and taught him from the beginning to either back up a step or turn his head away in order to get a treat, so he learned pretty early on to respect personal space in sport horse world. He’s had a few moments over the years where he’s done what adolescents of any species will do and decided to test already-established boundaries to see if they held and gotten the appropriate reprimand in response, but it’s not typical.

Aside from that, the behavior I expect from him has largely been defined through the mechanism of bribery via Mrs. Pastures, lol. I can literally point at his chest or tap him on the flank with one finger and he backs up or moves over, so as others have said, a more forceful kind of physical correction isn’t usually needed. I just poke him out of the way.

[beau159]

@MinnesotanSoil

I don’t know why this video has been on my mind lately, but it really had people riled up in the comments. I remember this one comment (I can’t find it anymore) under the video in which the commenter stated that their dad smacks their family horses all the time because it’s how horses teach each other what’s okay and what isn’t. This comment triggered a weeks-long argument (yes, really).
I recall another video of someone lightly smacking their horse on the nose for swinging around to bite that upset some people.

I’m curious to hear everyone else’s thoughts on smacking a horse for biting, kicking, or threatening. Although I’ve never smacked a horse or been in a situation where I even considered it, it doesn’t really seem like a huge deal to me.

If I am in danger (example: biting or kicking horse), I have absolutely no problem smacking a horse to keep myself safe. Wild herds of horses kick at each other to establish control and dominance, and little 125-pound me can relay the same information to my horse when they need to know I am the boss and XYZ behavior is absolutely not acceptable.

So the majority of the time, no, you don’t need to smack your horse. But there are certain situations where it is called for with it administered correctly.

[endlessclimb]

I’ll even do it if egregious when spooked. Scared or not, they need to pay attention to where I am

[ParadoxFarm]

Like most of you, I don’t like the huge neck slaps after a good round. I was watching the eventing SJ from the Olympics and I don’t remember who it was, a female rider, who smacked that poor horse so hard in her elation, I felt sorry for the poor horse. I tend to give a rub and a “good boy”.

[beowulf]

Oh goodness, that little colt is a punk I love how momma patiently rotated and waited, and waited, and waited… until WHACK!

That discipline was past the three second rule I was always taught, but I suppose a horse would know best what is most disciplinary for another horse. The colt certainly got the message.

I am of two minds on this and I think with most things horse related, the answer is usually somewhere in the middle of both extremes. One – physical language is one of the many ways horses engage in behaviors with one another. Corporal punishment is part of that language. Two – if you hit a horse, you are inviting physical warfare with a 1,200lb animal that can physically outmatch you. I think you have to pick your battles very wisely and fairly, otherwise the trust and confidence between you and your horse would diminish.

Acts of kicking and biting directly at your person are acts of warfare. “Putting the fear of god in them” for 2-3 seconds and then carrying on as if nothing happened is, quite literally, how horses communicate with one another that the behavior is undesirable.

About a month or so ago, my consummate-professional of a horse bit someone and I’ll fess up, I didn’t punish him for it. His head was being aggressively rubbed by someone and he wasn’t enjoying it and was expressing it in his expression - I told them to stop, and they didn’t listen. About two minutes later, my horse must have hit his quota and he nipped them right on the finger. I figured everyone has to learn sometime.

[goodhors]

Well we have “seasonal” slapping happening now with the BIG brown horse flies attacking everyone! I don’t remember them being so silent, we used to hear them coming! Despite sprays, they have been miserable recently, biting horses AND people!

Horses outside will actually turn towards you to present the fly for killing if they can tolerate the bite pain long enough at the gate. To kill the fly you do need to hit hard and fast!! Usually is a big open-hand slap with noise. Then we step on the fallen fly body to ensure complete death. Horses seem willing to tolerate that to get the flies removed quickly!

In other situations a slap can be the only “correction” available at the moment. Three second rule applies to have them connect their action to my reaction, learn from their bad behaviour. Big noise of open-hand slap often startles them, so a double-bonus in effect on them.

I carry a long dressage whip when walking out in fields with several horses as a safety measure. The whip gets waved to allow myself “personal space” in not getting crowded going thru them or holding them back as I open or close a gate to bring them in or open a field for grazing. Always some horse who REALLY wants to get thru the gate, but it may not be open enough or other horses blocking them. Whip waving prevents that pushing thru, knocking others out of the way, by making them ALL STAND BACK until gate is wide open. Flicking whip lash lightly on chests if they push, gains me needed space, which any slapping of horses away would not.

Frequent slapping for small offenses is not good training. Change the situation to reduce why horse is acting that way. Gelding games of tag, then ducking away will drive you crazy!

[MsM]

I will disagree somewhat that the celebratory neck slap is always bad.

I generally dont like being slapped. But if I have just scored a winning goal and am full of adrenaline, I dont expect a teammate to gently stroke my back. The smack on the back feels good! Similarly, I think an amped up horse understands the good boy! neck slap.

Current horse is a toughie in some ways. Loves a hard curry and slapping that brush down on most parts of his body. But we do dressage, so his ridden pats run from strokes to firm pats.