Small acres management opinions

[Dreamraiderr]

Hi there! Some of you might have seen me posting my questions as they come up since I have just started building my first acreage. I have 5 acres total land. Right now I have my 5 stall barn and 40 by 110 dry paddock (crushed rock footing) with 12 by 40 shelter. Long term I will have 3x 1 acre pastures and 2x dry paddock. I currently have my 2 riding horses at home but have plans to have more here. As I go through the seasons and see the work load I am wondering if my plans will be at all feasible.
I had hoped to have 8 horses here max. 4 in each dry paddock during spring, fall, and any time we get a lot of rain and ground is soft. In winter, once a good snow base is down, I planned to put them on the pastures. Split between them. In the summer I planned to keep them together and rotate as often as needed as the grass gets down to about 3 or 4 inches, mow it even, and let it sit till it’s back to about 8. I had planned to leave the manure sit and spread it every time I move the horses out of a field. If I needed to use the dry lots as a fourth pasture while waiting for growth I would. I would also hay all year. And over seed in the fall. For winter I had hoped that I could leave the manure sit and spread it out in the spring. I had planned to stall 5 of them in winter but I could all year.
With only the 2 hear on the dry lot it is a lot of work. 1.5-2 hours per day picking up the poops. In the summer the challenge was that they poop quite soft and spread it around and it’s time consuming to pickup, in the winter the challenge is frozen poops and finding it all. I am going to have a decent spring clean up to do, I can see.
I have been thinking about options for cleaning once I have more horses here.
One person I know uses a snow blower in the winter to pile the snow and manure just outside the paddock and uses a loader to move it. I do have a snow blower but I am not sure about this. I also have a Bob cat, a small machine with a loader bucket.

Basically I am wondering if my plans sound at all feasible and what options I have to use the machines at my disposal to help with workload later.

Making sure I plan ahead properly since right now all I have in place is my plan, my barn, 1 dry paddock, arena and roundpen.

[Willesdon]

Your questions, I suspect, depend on your location: climate, soil type, drainage, local laws - all manner of local variables. A bit more info about your location might elicit wiser responses from the COTH community

My immediate response, with no further knowledge was “that is a lot of horses on not much land”. Not clearing manure can sour grass quickly and increase both worm burden and flies. 3 pastures of a single acre rotated with 8 horses doesnt seem long enough to allow the grass to recover.

As some local pasture experts, e.g. your local agri extension service.

[trubandloki]

I have to agree with @Willesdon. Climate will make a huge difference on what you can and can not do.

I am one of those people that cleans up manure daily for my two horses. If I allow manure to built up I will have a slime mess since I have clay soil that is either rock hard or slippery wet and nothing in-between.

With just two horses at home it is work (not a ton of work, but just saying it is not a nothing time draw) to keep the paddocks and dry lot manure free.
When I have left the dry lot (sacrifice area) go all winter the work to get it clean in the spring is monumental. Now I drag a sled around and go looking for as many piles as I can find. Yes, some day I am chiseling manure piles up that are frozen to the ground.
I can not imagine doing all this for 8 horses. Eek.

[Red_Barn]

@Willesdon

My immediate response, with no further knowledge was “that is a lot of horses on not much land."

Yep.

Not only is the work load in your proposed scheme pretty huge, OP, but you’re going to end up trashing your pastures.

In the first place, you have no wiggle room in your rotation schedule, which will lead to all sorts of problems. You’re also going to end up with compaction issues from lack of rest. Nor can I imagine where you’re planning to find hay “all year”? It doesn’t sound like you’re going to have anything to cut but weeds at any point in the entire schedule.

I wish I could say something more cheery, but I just don’t see it. Sorry about that.

[Dreamraiderr]

I am in Ontario canada. Rural and unorganized so no bylaws. I cant leave it lay, I was planning to rotate them once week or every two depending on how fast they eat the grass. I need to make an income off the property so I have to maximize what I can do with it. I do have machines if I can figure out a way to keep the dry lots managed easier than by hand. I could always continue to use the stalls year round to reduce pasture time and rotate into the dry lots as part of it.
Just not sure how much manure can be spread on a pasture, how long I am suppose to wait before eggs are cooked by the sun and safe for horses to return to pasture. Pasture isnt meant to feed them but I know they will graze it. I will have hay out year round.
I wonder if my dry paddock will pack enough that I can scrape it with the Bob cat every couple days.

[Dreamraiderr]

I should also note its sand year. No clay no soil except the top soil I must buy.

[Dreamraiderr]

I have a hay supplier who has good hay and I have become good friends with. They store it inside for me and I go pick it up. They reserve me as much as I like

[Dreamraiderr]

Some boarders may wish to go up the road to the stable with the indoor for the winter. What does everything think is my max summer and winter capacity?

[trubandloki]

@Red_Barn

Nor can I imagine where you’re planning to find hay “all year”?

I think the OP means they will buy and feed hay all year.
Which is not a rare thing in a boarding situation.

@Dreamraiderr

I wonder if my dry paddock will pack enough that I can scrape it with the Bob cat every couple days.

Have you worked into your money making budget the replacement of footing after you scrape it all off a couple of times per year?

@Dreamraiderr

I could always continue to use the stalls year round to reduce pasture time and rotate into the dry lots as part of it.

Stalls use adds another level of work to your schedule. And the expense of bedding and disposal of that bedding/manure. Keep that in mind.

[Red_Barn]

@trubandloki

I think the OP means they will buy and feed hay all year.
Which is not a rare thing in a boarding situation.

Okay, yes, that does make more sense - sort of. I don’t really understand how you can feed hay in the grazed-down pastures while somehow “rotating” ???

I dunno.

With that many horses on that little land, I think I’d just plan on a cluster of dry lots and forget about grass entirely.

[four2farm]

I have 4 horses on 5 acres. Our property is on the side of a hill, we have a 1 acre “dry lot” with three horses and a run in shed. We have a barn paddock with one. I pick manure in the barn paddock and adjoining stall. We use the tractor in the dry lot to drag and the loader to scoop out deep spots. That stuff goes to the manure pile and makes killer top soil. I have mud, period. My drainage is excellent but I have mud. I do not allow them in the grass lots unless conditions are ideal, maybe 80 days a year. The barn lot that is kept clean, still has mud after lots of rain.

Erosion is constant, So I need to budget for large amount of stone dust and gravel to be brought in. Usually about 100 cubic yards a year. Doing it without a tractor and loader is almost impossible. Doing it for 8 horses would make me run screaming.

We had grand plans when we first built but soon learned that 4 was our max. I could have more but not have a blade of grass and all of them living in a mud pit.

Grass that seems to grow so fast in your yard, grows soooo slow in your pasture. Plus letting manure sit, creates flies, kills your grass and encourages overgrazing of your lawns and weed growth in your roughs. I use a ultra light pasture drag behind my “customized” pasture bush hog, aka a 1968 Snapper rear engine mower with a ultra high deck. Love that little bugger, gets up close to fence lines, gets right around trees and every part to repair it seems to cost $12.

I mow pastures every 3-4 weeks in the growing season and drag weekly or as needed.

We remove erosion related and muddy spots in the dry lot every other month and drag weekly with the tractor. I pick the barn lot daily.

I think you might be overworking yourself and your property with 8 head. Maybe try to get really comfortable with 2 and then 4 and see how the property takes it through the seasons? Good Luck!

[Dreamraiderr]

For the grass I just want it to keep the lots together as just dirt will be a mess and footing material is very expensive. I dont mean for it to add to their feed, although of course I am aware they will eat it. That’s why I planned the rotation so that I can try to keep some sort of grass for cleanliness reasons. Plus it does give them something to do. Any thoughts on how many I can keep on this space? Or management ideas to maximize what I can do with this space? I have already invested 100k into it and dont want to waste my money by only keeping my own two horses here. I was planning to make this my income while my husband works. I would have plenty of work to do, but would charge board to pay my wage. Not looking to make money beyond that, I know that is difficult in the horse industry. Just going to make a wage for myself worth the labour.

[Dreamraiderr]

Yep that’s right. And I find the stalls much easier to clean than the dry paddock but would only use them at night. I have budgeted for adding footing in the spring after cleaning up what will inevitably be missed during winter.
Going to do mats in the worst spots, around the feeders.
I have been looking at the wood chips too that some people talk about for footing.

[skip99]

I have approx 3.5 acres in grass with three horses, down from closer to 4 acres since I put in a couple of small dry lots for when it’s wet and no long using my riding area for turnout. The 3.5 acres is split into two larger paddocks (1.5 acres and 1.25 acres) and two smaller (.25 and .5 acre) paddocks. The grass does stay good enough that I feed very little hay in spring/summer. I will nee to overseed my two smaller paddocks next year, and maybe certain spots in the larger paddocks (have been here two full years).

My manure gets spread twice a year, I find that a 6 month pile from my 3 horses will spread over a little less than 3/4 of an acre. The pile will usually be about 15 ft x 9 ft and 5 ft high by the time I’m ready to spread. If I had more than 4 horses I’d have to create another pile area or get some of it hauled away.

Keep in mind that if your dry lot size is 40x110 that might be a little tight for 4 horses unless they get along really well.

[Dreamraiderr]

Thank you! This information is very helpful! I plan to make a drag too. How often should someone drag to ensure the poops are not sitting on the grass too long to do you? Or just depends on how many?
I will run numbers and see if I can do 5. That may be managable. I am on a flat lot. I also domt plan to allow them on the grass unless conditions are perfect, like you do.

[Dreamraiderr]

Thank you! This is helpful. So my numbers actually are not technically 8. The plan I had is that there are 3 broodmares I am suppose to house. So I actually fractora their babies, the years they have them, into the numbers. So technically its 5 horses and sometimes a couple more in summer.
I have been looking into manure removal companies and there are some that do take it free if you drop off. Was thinking of getting a dump trailer, parking it beside a ramp and then going to take it when its full.

[Red_Barn]

@Dreamraiderr

For the grass I just want it to keep the lots together as just dirt will be a mess and footing material is very expensive. I dont mean for it to add to their feed, although of course I am aware they will eat it. That’s why I planned the rotation so that I can try to keep some sort of grass for cleanliness reasons.

Rotation is great, but I personally have found that it takes a lot more time and space than you’ve planned for - at least here in Maine. (I have 3 horses on 9 pastured acres plus stalls at night and a sacrifice paddock for mud. STILL a ton of work, between mowing, cleanup and spreading manure.)

If you really want to hang onto a bit of grass, maybe you could keep the horses in the dry lots most of the time, and then let them have the occasional hour on the grass for a treat? I honestly don’t know how else you can do it without trashing your ground completely.

[lenapesadie]

So 8 horses on a total turnout space of 3.2 acres (presuming both dry lots are the same size)?

In a climate that gets real winter?

No that sounds pretty terrible actually.

I’m also setting up a small acreage farm. I’ll have about 2 acres in grass turnout and about half an acre in dry / sacrifice turnout / runs on stalls. I live where there no winter and my land drains super fast and we can grow winter grazing. I plan to stall (with attached runs) my horses @12 hrs a day most of the year and turnout on dry/sacrifice areas when it’s super wet. I seriously doubt I can carry more than 3 horses. 3 may be questionable.

I know for a fact that taking care of 8 horses by myself would be a full time job unless they were turned out on the proverbial back 40.

[Dreamraiderr]

I dont mind having them on the dry paddocks at all. Or even making more of them and turning out smaller groups in them. I just need to figure out how to clean them aside from with a hand fork lol. Before I build any more I have to have that figured out so I can use the best footing. What I have in my one is crushed Rock and has packed hard near the feeder but is loose elsewhere. I have been wondering if i could scrape it at all without trashing my footing.
In the winter I was thinking of using a snow blower like a neighbour does but I think I would break it. Lol. Or use the plow on the Bob cat and pile it up every 3 days or something. Pile would be huge but would be smaller once the snow melts. Then could move the pile away with the machine in the spring. Not really sure. Want to make sure I plan the space properly since its limited. Dont want to have to tear things down because they were not well planned.

[Red_Barn]

@Dreamraiderr

I dont mind having them on the dry paddocks at all. Or even making more of them and turning out smaller groups in them. I just need to figure out how to clean them aside from with a hand fork lol. Before I build any more I have to have that figured out so I can use the best footing. What I have in my one is crushed Rock and has packed hard near the feeder but is loose elsewhere. I have been wondering if i could scrape it at all without trashing my footing.

Well, the more you divide the space, the harder it will be to maneuver any kind of drag, so I’m having a hard time picturing what it is you really want to do.

If you’re really dead set on having all these horses (which I personally wouldn’t do anyhow) I’d just hire somebody and pay them to use the fork. I honestly don’t think there’s a hi-tech answer to overcrowding.