Small animal vet rant

[MistyBlue]

It can be tough when you have a small animal vet that is priced well above other area vets. We all try to do our best by our animals and do all we can medically for them but sometimes the costs get ridiculous. And it’s a catch 22…nobody wants to cut too many health corners, but if the prices get very high then more animals suffer for it due to less owners being able to afford having more than one pet. And it’s the good responsible owners who are the ones going to the vet for everything wrong with their animals.
But then I certainly don’t want vets and techs underpaid. They usually have a pretty big overhead and there’s also keeping up with better technology that costs an arm and a leg. We want them to have the best diagnostic tools…they want to have them…yet we all worry about the cost. :sigh:
I have noticed personally that the more I use the vets…the more often they give me breaks on costs. I am also shameless in baking and cooking treats for the vets and techs…which helps. :winkgrin:

As for vaccinations…it’s nice that some folks think rabies vaccines may be effective for 5 to 7 years. However I personally would never ever take the chance on that. How expensive is a rabies shot? How tough is it to get it done once every 3 years? Has anyone ever seen the results of late stage rabies in anything? :no: I can’t even begin to describe how horrible it is for the animal. Seriously, there’s no description that would fit. It’s beyond horrendous as a disease and is 100% deadly. And it’s not a nice death, it’s hell.
And even though us humans can get a rabies shot after being bitten…those aren’t close to pleasant either. I’ve had them more times than I can count…they suck.
For the few measly bucks to vaccinate against rabies once every 3 years…it’s a waste of time and money to even do a study on hoping it lasts longer IMO. :no:

[hessy35]

Gzzzz. Again this is NOT about not wanting to pay for a rabies vaccination. It is about what they charge for it and how often and what they do to you when you go in there with a perfectly happy cat. My vet charges a LOT for shots, so don’t expect me to be willing to pay for all these additional tests at the same time. I’m mean really. Something’s gotta give. Either reasonably price your vaccines OR your test, one or the other! Long story short, I won’t be going back to that vet anymore.

[FatPalomino]

[QUOTE=foggybok;4199821]
I can see it now…

Cat bites somebody… Cat had a rabies vaccine 4 years ago. Cat is euthanized because it is legally unvaccinated and the local laws require all unvaccinated animals involved in a bite to be rabies tested…(this IS the law in many areas). Owner says “but the vet tech said…”.[/QUOTE]

Oh, wait. Don’t forget about all the warm-blooded animals that came in contact with that cat. 6 month QT or euth., too.

[FatPalomino]

[QUOTE=dalpal;4199896]

I’m not trying to be a bitch…but I do seriously want to know why they doubled their xray price in the last year and why they are the most expensive in town now. They probably won’t care…but I figured I should at least tell them why they are going to lose me as a client.[/QUOTE]

Let us know what they say.

I’ve seen x rays cost more because they are digital (well worth the money spent, there).

I’ve seen specialist’s cost more. They have higher trained staff that usually has to very accurately position the pet, often under sedation. And, this person has spent several additional years getting boarded. Their opinion of what they see if worth more.

One thing I’ve also seen now included in the price is a consult with a board certified radiologist. This works best with digital rads- they are emailed right over to the radiologist. For example, I brought a young dog in with a severe lameness. Digital rads looked good to the general practice doc, but she consulted with the board certified radiologist to be sure. Nope, he didn’t see anything either. My dog had a tick borne disease. To me, money well spent to be sure of a diagnosis rather than playing around with medications and treatments.

[Sing_Mia_Song]

I’m a Registered Vet Tech, but I now only work in practice one day a month, as I’ve gotten a much better paying job in an unrelated field. So, not here to defend my livelihood.

This generally comes down to a question of philosophy. If you feel your vet is being overagressive and trying to make you feel like a bad pet owner for not taking all their recommendations, then that’s a clear sign that it’s a bad fit between client and veterinarian. Ask around and find one that better fits how you want to treat your pet.

We are trained to never assume what the client wants. Offer the most comprehensive plan, and allow them to pick and choose what they want to do. Certain things are mandatory–like an annual heartworm test. In our practice, everything going under anesthesia gets an IV line and fluids, because it’s better medicine, and because it sucks to have a crashing animal on the table and not have access to a vein.

Here’s an example of the different types of clients I see. We have two types of rabies vaccines for cats. ne is the standard three-year killed virus vaccine. The other is a one-year canarypox recombinent DNA vaccine. They are priced the same. Over the long haul, the three-year is obviously cheaper. But it is linked to vaccine-associated fibrosarcomas (cancers) in cats. Some of my clients say “He’s 12 years old, he hasn’t gotten cancer yet, give me the three-year.” Others go for the one-year because they don’t want to take the risk. Either way, it’s an informed client making the best decision for their particular situation.

There are absolutely some vets who push services. But the majority that I have worked with genuinely have the pet’s best interest at heart. It really bugs us when clients think we are trying to pull a fast one on them, because this certainly isn’t the field to choose if you’re in it for the money!

[Marshfield]

The veterinarian you’re seeing in private practice essentially has little say in the frequency with which your pet is have a rabies vaccine. Some states are two years others are three. This is dictated by the regulatory officials in the particular state. I have an entire almot 100 page booklet covering the Rabies laws in my state. As for why vaccinate the indoor only? We have a client now who is going through the stess of a six month quarantine for seven cats because of the bat infestation in her attic.

[Ghazzu]

@hessy35;4199806

My rant is not about rabies…. that seems to be getting lost here. I was just happy to jump on the rant wagon so that I could do just that – RANT - about the cost of small animal vet bills. But I will now be jumping off because I do not wish to argue with vet techs that are obviously defending their livelihoods.

Get a grip.
Rabies vaccination laws are mandated by the public health sector, not the veterinary lobby.

Veterinarians and techs have plenty to do besides administering rabies vaccine.

And I’m sure I’m not the only DVM who would be happy, as I stated previously (and have said before on COTH and elsewhere) to see long-term DOI studies.
Glad that someone finally ponied up the necessary moolah.

[Trakehner]

Sorry, but way too many small animal vets are rip off artists. I get a magazine for veterinary practices…lots of articles on how to maximize profits. Blown out of reality prices for innoculations, worming and drugs. Vets who hate to give a prescription because they won’t make obscene profits on drugs ($1/pill vs. 10 cents/pill for Thyroxine).

I owned a medical lab when I was in undergrad/grad school, I know what tests costs…it’s a joke what vet clinics try to charge…$20 for a fecal float…oh please. Full blood work-up for a cat neuter…jeeze, these are done under Ketaset with a 3 minute pluck and cut and a puff of sulfa in the now empty sack…not a $150 procedure.

There are horse vets who are worse than small animal vets ever are, pad bills, keep horses at their vet clinics for no reason and lie terribly and charge barn calls and not sending a horse to a real emergency clinic while they can get a few thousand more dollars out of the animal. I’ve seen all of this done by vets people LUV on COTH.

Don’t forget, it’s the vet lobbies who are trying to make equine dentists a thing of the past.

[Meredith_Clark]

YIKES!

I’m sorry that my rant brought out so much conflict, but there has been a lot of useful information on this thread!

Just to clear a few things up:

• I spoke to my vet office and they did refund the $100 office fee since they had specifically told me that I wasn’t having physicals done that day.

• I did pick up the Strongid for Bella’s hookworms and although I was curious that her 3CC tube was $20 while the huge tube for the horses is $6 I just didn’t feel like getting into it!

• I did tell them I would be buying her Interceptor online and while they seemed put off I really didn’t care, it was $30 less than what they were selling it for.

• I have no problem providing health care and vaccinations for my animals. I was just surprised since my last vet was so affordable and easy to get along with and my equine vets have always been fine with me doing my own vaccines and trying to save money.

I totally understand overhead costs and mark ups… I worked equine retail for many years! :eek: But I don’t like being pressured, guilt-ed and blatantly ripped off if I can avoid it :lol:

[Horsegal984]

Glad you got some resolution to your problems! And equally glad that you got some useful information out of all the drama!

Online pharmacies are great, and our clinic acutally contracted with one now that links through our website. Allows clients to save money while still ensuring that they get the same correct safe medications they would pick up in clinic. It’s a lot easier to tell clinets to avoid 1-800-PETMEDS when we can say but here’s an alternative with the same prices that doesn’t have 75 outstanding lawsuits!

Oh, and another way to save $, check out Walmart’s $4 generic list. Some times the meds we use are on there, esp antibiotics. They might not actually be $4, since dogs usually require a higher dose than people, but they’re usually still under $10.

Katherine
Vet Tech

[JSwan]

[QUOTE=Meredith Clark;4200459]

I totally understand overhead costs and mark ups… I worked equine retail for many years! :eek: But I don’t like being pressured, guilt-ed and blatantly ripped off if I can avoid it :lol:[/QUOTE]

I think that’s what bugs me about what seems to be a trend among small animal vets. To me, taking a dog/cat to the vet is the same as me going to the doctor. It’s veterinary medicine - not a day spa.

I have no problem spending money on quality veterinary care. None. And I don’t mess around with vaccinations - by God they get them on time and a rabies booster when I even suspect an exposure.

It’s the ‘day spa’ thing that gets me - and it’s gets harder (in my area) to find a small animal vet that doesn’t guilt you into special potions or pills, expensive tests, just nickle and dime you until a simple office visit costs hundreds of dollars. It just seems a little extreme - especially if the vet starts to treat you like you’re not a good pet owner because you don’t want to pay for pookums to have his nails buffed.

That’s the reason I changed vets after so many years - the practice had been sold and it had changed into a boutique practice - with boutique prices.

I kinda see a similar thing with large animal vets and the ‘equine only’ vets. Equine vets seem to have an equestrian markup on things that a large animal vet wouldn’t. Not saying that specializing in one species or area is bad… just that I wish it didn’t mean prices were higher.

No offense intended to any vet or tech at all. I’m grateful that animals in the US have access to great veterinary care and I appreciate the work that all y’all do. Guess I just kinda gripe a little about some of the prices and the whole granite counter top thing. I’ll get over it.

[Bogie]

This post makes me love my small animal vet even more.

She does house calls so I don’t have to schlep my four cats and two dogs to the vet.

She sends all prescriptions to a mail order vet pharmacy that has the lowest prices around to save her clients’ money.

She does not push excessive services or testing.

She never tries to guilt me into providing treatment that I can’t afford or which will make very little difference to our animal (we had an ancient cat with kidney failure and she helped us make her last months comfortable without pushing us to take heroic efforts for an almost 20 year old cat).

I will have to tell her how much I appreciate her next time I see her!

[foggybok]

The funniest thing about this whole thread is I have been debating on whether or not I an afford to go back into practice full time. I really miss the medicine… But running the numbers tells me I most likely can’t. By going into practice, my salary would likely drop by 70% and I can’t afford that, won’t be able to make my house payment… I live a pretty simple life, have a small piece of land and a crappy little house with a few horses… I don’t spend money on very much… I see people my age that are Drs and lawyers etc (equivalent amount of schooling) that make way more than I do, which is fine becasue I love what I do, but the point is, I’m not getting rich… And likely neither are the vets you guys are complaining about.

Yes, there is a mark-up on drugs, yes there is a fee for service… Yes, the margins can be high, but what the heck do you guys expect? Free veterinary care? Sometimes I wonder…

[dalpal]

:eek:

[QUOTE=foggybok;4200607]
The funniest thing about this whole thread is I have been debating on whether or not I an afford to go back into practice full time. I really miss the medicine… But running the numbers tells me I most likely can’t. By going into practice, my salary would likely drop by 70% and I can’t afford that, won’t be able to make my house payment… I live a pretty simple life, have a small piece of land and a crappy little house with a few horses… I don’t spend money on very much… I see people my age that are Drs and lawyers etc (equivalent amount of schooling) that make way more than I do, which is fine becasue I love what I do, but the point is, I’m not getting rich… And likely neither are the vets you guys are complaining about.

Yes, there is a mark-up on drugs, yes there is a fee for service… Yes, the margins can be high, but what the heck do you guys expect? Free veterinary care? Sometimes I wonder…[/QUOTE]

I feel for you…but I’m going to tell you, I don’t think all vets are poor church mice. I remember one small animal vet (she boarded a horse at our barn) came in one day very bummed because she “made too much money” that year and had a big tax bill. I know several equine vets who own big farms, high dollar horses. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that…but this is why I don’t go for the “all vets are poor church mice” arguments.

I would like everyone to make a decent living and enjoy life…but I’m sorry, when one veterinarian practice is charging 175.00 for TWO xrays and the same sized clinic in the same town charges 88.00 for TWO xrays…that’s beyond ridiculous. In this economy you don’t fleece your clients…you don’t double your xray prices…this is why so many people don’t take sick animals to the vet hospital now, it’s out of people’s price range now. I can’t remember the last equine bill that I had that was under 350.00.

But Honestly, I do the best I can to take care of my animals nutritionally and exercise…I do the best I can to stay away from veterinarians…I’ve been screwed one too many times. What I don’t understand is…You get the diagnosis completely wrong…you hand client big bill…client calls you up and tells you things aren’t better…come in, new diagnosis…another big bill.

I know one girl who did everything for her horse (lame)…she started with saddle fit, etc…still off. Called vet…started with chiro/accupunture…(250ish dollars), nothing…calls vet back…vet decides that hock injections will fix the problem (525.00)…doesn’t do anything…takes horse to vet specialist…decides the shoeing is the issue…pays for a farrier specialist (400.00)…horse still not right. Calls vet…vet says…“Well, what do you want to try next?” :eek: I told her if it were my horse and I wasn’t riding on a regular basis…I would turn him out for a year and see what happens…that’s what she did…poor girl spent over 1000.00 (probably closer to 2K, I’m sure I’m missing some of the data) over a couple of months and no one ever figured it out.

Another girl’s horse was coughing. She calls out vet…vet does routine physical…NO SCOPING…gives her some meds. Girl gets bill in mail a few weeks later…she said that she dreaded opening it, knowing it’d be about 350.00. WRONG…try 750.00!!! Of course people can’t afford to have the vet out on a regular basis any longer.

I would love to double my prices on my clients to make up for the ones who have left in the bad economy…guess what, the loyal ones who stayed don’t deserve that and they would walk too.

[dalpal]

I should have pointed this out in my last post, but forgot to add this…

The small animal vet that said that she had made too much money one year/owed alot in taxes…that woman is a wonderful vet/person who does a lot of discounted work to rescues…aka spaying a cat for 50.00 because someone rescued it from the pound. She believes that services such as spay/neuter and euthanisia should be affordable so people can afford them. She is not a pricey vet either. I’ve just never used her clinic because she specializes in one species, and I have three…so I’ve used a small animal vet who does both cats/dogs. But I think she was smart enough to see the bigger picture…be good at what you do, treat your clients fairly and you will be successful…more people will come to you because people will recommend you to others. I know that she also paid her techs about double what the normal tech makes…therefore, her staff (although small) stayed put. My friend made 12.00 an hour (10 years ago BTW) just working the front desk.

This vet treated her staff and clients well and still makes a good living as a veterinarian…it can be done without charging clients through the nose.

[JollyBadger]

I used to bring my cat and Rottweiler to a local vet (seriously, their office was close enough that I could just walk over). Seemed like a good idea to have a place so close, especially if an emergency came up. However, it did turn out to be one of those small animal vets that wanted to prescribe everything from flea/tick preventatives to diets to ear cleansers, even when the animals were given a clean bill of health. Once they tried to charge me for nail trimming during a visit when they hadn’t trimmed the nails - I do trimmings at home.

Their bedside manners could have used improvement as well. When I had to have my old cat euthanized, they left me in the room to hold him and say my goodbye’s and told me to knock on the door to the lab when I was finished, and they’d come and get him. The staff was apparently having a great time back there, because they were all talking and laughing very loud and didn’t hear the first four times I tried knocking to get them to come and take my dead cat. Finally someone came and got him and acted as though I was just interrupting their good time. Oh, and they have your bill ready at the front desk. . .

My dog was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in 2006. I’d dropped him off at that same vet in the morning before work (again, due to the convenient location) because he’d been limping, and they said that the vet could check him at some point during the day while I was at work. They called around the middle of the day to confirm that it was bone cancer. When I went to pick up my dog after work, the vet met with me briefly and tried to convince me to pursue treatment. I told her I wanted to consider my options. . .after all, I already had a $400+ bill to pay, just for being told that my six year old dog was going to die. They refused to make any copies or give me access to the x-rays or other test results to bring to another vet, though.

Still, I opted to get a second opinion from my the vet my parents use. He was halfway across town, but we’d known him for years. I told him what the other vet said, and he agreed that it was cancer and that it could be treated, but then he went on to ask if the other vet gave me any more information about the type of cancer (she hadn’t). He told me that the type of cancer was very aggressive, and that even treating it immediately would only buy weeks, possibly months, for my dog. At most.

He did send us home with some meds to help ease my dog’s pain while I considered my options. Just a few days later, I called my parents’ vet to schedule the euthanasia for that weekend. It wasn’t that my dog was miserable. . .he still wanted to be able to come to the barn with me and run around with my horse (they were play-buddies), he still wanted to play with my parents’ Rottweiler as well, but it was causing him so much pain and I couldn’t stand to see him unable to do the things he really wanted to do. And I didn’t want to see him get to the point where he didn’t want to do those things anymore.

The morning of, my dog got a BIG slice of chocolate cake with ice cream for breakfast. He loved it. And the vet was so wonderful through the whole euthanasia process. My parents came with me, and the vet gave all of us big hugs and said we could stay in there as long as we wanted/needed to say our “goodbyes.”

That was three years ago and I don’t have another dog yet. When I do get another one, I would be more likely to drive the extra distance to use my parents’ vet.

[onelanerode]

Oh let’s do talk about drug prices.

Horse gets Rx for metronidazole. 500/500 mg pills, $50.

Dogs get Rx for metronidazole. 28/500 mg pills. $50

That’s a 2,000% markup. That’s also the last time I use that practice. :mad: I think I might call them this morning and see what they say when I ask for a justification of that markup though. That should be entertaining.

I don’t expect quality vet care to be free. My equine vet is probably one of the priciest in the area, but she’s damn good at what she does and I don’t have a problem paying her for her knowledge and services. I just can’t say the same for my small animal practice, so it’s time to find someone new. :no:

[Sansena]

[QUOTE=Meredith Clark;4194256]
I think it’s very strange that she tested for hookworms I only allowed them to do the fecal test in the first place because they kept telling me heartgaurd doesn’t work and I didn’t really believe them. I feel like they just had to prove me wrong!.[/QUOTE]

Just a quick FYI: Fecal tests (for horses anyway) aren’t run for specific larvae. What they do is process the sample, put it under microscope, and report which ovum are present. You’re going to see any variety that happens to be present.

I imagine it’s the same for heartworm blood test.

[LookinSouth]

Wow my experiences with our small animal vet have been nothing but good! Maybe shop around for another small animal vet?

There are very good, fair and honest small animal vets out there you just need to do your research and talk to other local pet owners. Our vet always presents to us multiple options and discusses what would be most affordable since he knows we are on a budget. We’ve never once felt taken advantage of or coerced into getting something we didn’t want.

Compared to what we’ve spent on equine vet services our dogs’ vet bills seem like pocket change:lol: That said, my equine vet is very fair and considerate of our limited funds as well but we’ve been taken to the cleaners in the past by other equine vets. For example charging 600.00 for a loading dose of Adequan :eek:?? Needless to say we haven’t experienced a markup even close to that with our small animal vet. Nevertheless it is rare that we have an equine vet bill under 300.00 after the farm call has been added etc… Our dogs bills are rarely over 150.00.

Fortunately we haven’t needed her much lately other than routine care and we have the option to haul to her clinic to save on the farm call.

[Trakehner]

[QUOTE=Sansena;4201124]
I imagine it’s the same for heartworm blood test.[/QUOTE]

Way back when I had my lab I checked for hearworms filaria by dilluting the blood and putting it through a Milipore filter. You’d take the filter and put it under a microscope at 100x to discover if any heartworms were present. Pretty simple.

My wife refused to take our Boxer to the vets, they’d done everything but call her an abuser and unfit since she wouldn’t do everything they suggested. When I took her to get Thyroxine (low thyroid…bilateral hypegmentation and weight gain…all classic signs) the vet suggested “Cushings”. I nailed her on that suggestion for expensive testing…she blinked and said, “Yep, you’re right, it’s not Cushings”…she was caught pushing a high-profit test for no reason.

People hate going to the vets…they know they’re being robbed blind, lied to and bills padded. We get the catalogs for our horses and see what vaccinations actually cost and aren’t ignorant consumers. I had one vet break out on the bill every facet of the vaccination as if they were separate shots…$90 for a $10 vaccine. No excuse. Buy your own vaccines and do it yourself, bring a fecal sample and take it to the vet for a look-see…then buy your own wormer. Or learn to do your own…it’s very simple and cheap…get a kid’s hobby microscope for $20, you can easily see worms with these and you only need 100 power…you can use it for your horse’s fecal float too!

Most dogs and cats are healthy as horses (healthier). Do it yourself where it’s safe and simple (and it’s legal to give your own pets shots/vaccinations…in many states you can also buy rabies vaccines, just keep the records)…use vets for emergencies.