Small animal vet rant

[JSwan]

[QUOTE=foggybok;4200607]

Yes, there is a mark-up on drugs, yes there is a fee for service… Yes, the margins can be high, but what the heck do you guys expect? Free veterinary care? Sometimes I wonder…[/QUOTE]

Of course not. Nor do I begrudge anyone who makes a good living and lives well. It’s also none of my business how any vet chooses to spend the money he makes and if he’s got a summer place at the beach I’m happy for him (or her). Profit and success are not dirty words.

However, there IS a difference between marking up a service and price gouging. And there is a difference between compassion and devotion to an animals health and welfare, and taking advantage of the owner’s emotions to guilt them into extraordinary measures for the purpose of maximizing profit.

I think what people are complaining about is not the cost of keeping their pets and livestock healthy.

They are complaining of what appears to be price gouging and extremes. What I personally dislike are vets and staff implying that I am not a good pet owner because I refuse to purchase a special shampoo or potion, or prefer a less expensive approach to dealing with illness or injury.

I happily and with deep gratitude paid over $2500.00 to the ER vet who saved my dog’s life just a few days ago. It was worth every penny.

I don’t want to see a bill like that for a couple of shots and office exams for a few pets.

If the prices people are complaining about become the norm throughout the country - fewer people will be able to afford to keep their pets healthy.

It could mean fewer pets, that only wealthier people can afford, or lots of pets going without vaccinations and basic vet care. I don’t care for either scenario.

[MrWinston]

It’s hard NOT to rant!

I’ve seen the very same trend in overpricing and pushing tests and treatments for some years now, in more than one small animal hospital. I think the very worst example was when our 5 yr. old Doberman male was diagnosed with CVI (cervical vertibrae instability) and would become paralyzed quickly if we didn’t do spinal surgery. His prognosis was excellent. This was at the U of FL Small Animal Hospital. They estimated the cost at 6K maximum. Yep, when all was said and done we got a bill for 7K! There was not ONE thing on the detailed bill that was either unexpected or extra. They said themselves that it had gone exactly as planned. So where did they go off of the estimate by 1K? I know many people who would have had to euthanize the dog due to inability to spend that much for surgery. It really felt like a big fat slap in the face.

On a positive note, the dog recovered 100% and ran Excellent Level AKC Agility all season.

[hessy35]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;4200336]
Get a grip.
Rabies vaccination laws are mandated by the public health sector, not the veterinary lobby.

Veterinarians and techs have plenty to do besides administering rabies vaccine.

And I’m sure I’m not the only DVM who would be happy, as I stated previously (and have said before on COTH and elsewhere) to see long-term DOI studies.
Glad that someone finally ponied up the necessary moolah.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, but AGAIN, this is NOT about rabies laws or vaccines. It was an example and you all need to “get a grip” and understand that there are some money hungry vets out there that do push for unnecessary test to line their pockets. Stop focusing on the one thing you have legal backing on - rabies -

[hessy35]

[QUOTE=dalpal;4200687]
:eek:

I feel for you…but I’m going to tell you, I don’t think all vets are poor church mice. I remember one small animal vet (she boarded a horse at our barn) came in one day very bummed because she “made too much money” that year and had a big tax bill. I know several equine vets who own big farms, high dollar horses. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that…but this is why I don’t go for the “all vets are poor church mice” arguments.

I would like everyone to make a decent living and enjoy life…but I’m sorry, when one veterinarian practice is charging 175.00 for TWO xrays and the same sized clinic in the same town charges 88.00 for TWO xrays…that’s beyond ridiculous. In this economy you don’t fleece your clients…you don’t double your xray prices…this is why so many people don’t take sick animals to the vet hospital now, it’s out of people’s price range now. I can’t remember the last equine bill that I had that was under 350.00.

But Honestly, I do the best I can to take care of my animals nutritionally and exercise…I do the best I can to stay away from veterinarians…I’ve been screwed one too many times. What I don’t understand is…You get the diagnosis completely wrong…you hand client big bill…client calls you up and tells you things aren’t better…come in, new diagnosis…another big bill.

I know one girl who did everything for her horse (lame)…she started with saddle fit, etc…still off. Called vet…started with chiro/accupunture…(250ish dollars), nothing…calls vet back…vet decides that hock injections will fix the problem (525.00)…doesn’t do anything…takes horse to vet specialist…decides the shoeing is the issue…pays for a farrier specialist (400.00)…horse still not right. Calls vet…vet says…“Well, what do you want to try next?” :eek: I told her if it were my horse and I wasn’t riding on a regular basis…I would turn him out for a year and see what happens…that’s what she did…poor girl spent over 1000.00 (probably closer to 2K, I’m sure I’m missing some of the data) over a couple of months and no one ever figured it out.

Another girl’s horse was coughing. She calls out vet…vet does routine physical…NO SCOPING…gives her some meds. Girl gets bill in mail a few weeks later…she said that she dreaded opening it, knowing it’d be about 350.00. WRONG…try 750.00!!! Of course people can’t afford to have the vet out on a regular basis any longer.

I would love to double my prices on my clients to make up for the ones who have left in the bad economy…guess what, the loyal ones who stayed don’t deserve that and they would walk too.[/QUOTE]

That’s a lot of work for $1k. I can drop that kind of cash easy on my cat, that has no problems, if I listened to them.

[Ghazzu]

@hessy35;4201665

Excuse me, but AGAIN, this is NOT about rabies laws or vaccines. It was an example and you all need to “get a grip” and understand that there are some money hungry vets out there that do push for unnecessary test to line their pockets. Stop focusing on the one thing you have legal backing on - rabies -

Sweetie, you brought it into the discussion.
And I do believe I’m allowed to focus on what I choose.

Would you be happier if I defended the “money-hungry”?

[hessy35]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;4201742]
Sweetie, you brought it into the discussion.
And I do believe I’m allowed to focus on what I choose.

Would you be happier if I defended the “money-hungry”?[/QUOTE]

I’m not your Sweetie… but I’m not surprised that you would call me that. I brought up rabies vaccinations as an example, a poor one at that, as I posted much earlier in this thread to bring the topic back to the real issues – cost and fees. Your attitude about this subject is your real issue. “get a grip” Sweetie? Post what you’d like, but you can save your demeaning insults for your clients.

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=Sing Mia Song;4200006]
This generally comes down to a question of philosophy. If you feel your vet is being overagressive and trying to make you feel like a bad pet owner for not taking all their recommendations, then that’s a clear sign that it’s a bad fit between client and veterinarian. Ask around and find one that better fits how you want to treat your pet.[/QUOTE]

Good point. Of course, people in some areas have limited choices, but I’ve known a lot of people who seem unable to bring themselves to change doctors, dentists or vets despite plenty of choice and years of dissatisfaction. Make the break! It’s almost always a huge relief when you do.

[Ben_and_Me]

oh my good lord. seriously?

if you’re hell bent on determining that your vet is price gouging, then switch vets. plain and simple. or better yet, do your own research and come to the vet with enough self-confidence to say that NO you don’t want to do bloodwork/cushings testing/whatever but that you’re willing to sign a waiver not holding them liable if in fact the bloodwork would have shown up early kidney disease or whatever.

but don’t assume all vets are gouging you. the vets at the practice where i work drive 5-10 year old, reliable japanese cars. they don’t own high dollar horses, homes, farms or yachts. all they do own is a $150,000 education that is taking them ~30 years to pay off.

i find it completely ridiculous that people on a HORSE board are complaining about vets earning around $80,000 a year. how much do you earn? for doing what? putting numbers into an excel spreadsheet?

[wendy]

well really why would you agree to have tests etc. run that you don’t want run? grow a backbone. Ask questions. Why do you want to do this? or this? I don’t mind paying more to our small animal vets than to the equine vets- they have a fantastic clinic that must have cost a fortune to set up and equip,it’s far better than any human hospital I’ve ever seen, and the service is far superior than any human medical clinic I’ve ever been in; the horse vet just has a few bits n pieces in the back of a truck.

[JSwan]

Well, I think you’re getting huffy because you do not understand what people are trying to say.

I’m HAPPY for any vet that has a successful practice and is doing well. I don’t care if they’re happy with 40K a year or 400K a year. I don’t consider veterinary medicine to be charity work and even if I did - they are still entitled to earn a living and I don’t have the right to complain about how they choose to spend their money. Get it?

I also do not complain about vet bills - being a horse owner I’m used to them. No biggie. It’s part of owning horses - and vet bills come along with owning any animal. Again - that’s not the issue.

What I am seeing is a CHANGE in small animal practices in general. (where I live) Switching to a different vet is easy. Sometimes it’s because it’s not a good fit, you don’t have confidence in the vet, you move away, vet retires - whatever. No biggie.

It’s not so easy when you can’t find a vet to switch to - because they are all starting to become widdle day spa boutique practices for widdle pookums.

What is a reasonable cost is going to differ based on where we live, mostly. The actual costs involved in running a business is going to differ for the vet, too. So personally, I tend to try and factor that in when we talk about these things. Just keep things in perspective. Housing prices vary widely - so do cars, land, pretty much everything - depending on where you live. Variation in vet costs will too.

When I start seeing an office visit, exam and vaccine for my cat creeping towards the actual cost of a visit, shot and exam from my personal physician (not my co-pay but what the physician charges the insurance company for those services… I’m sorry but at some point it just gets ridiculous.

And I’m seeing the same thing with large animal vets - the equine only vets charging a premium for routine matters that you won’t see a large animal vet doing. I’m not talking specialists mind you. I’m talking about routine vet care.

[wendy]

When I start seeing an office visit, exam and vaccine for my cat creeping towards the actual cost of a visit, shot and exam from my personal physician (not my co-pay but what the physician charges the insurance company for those services… I’m sorry but at some point it just gets ridiculous.

why? the doctor and the vet have similar expensive training, are doing the same things, why does it matter what the species is? because you think cats aren’t worthy of having good medical care? why bother taking them to the vet then? just let it die.

[grayarabpony]

Actually you may pay more at the vet clinic (depending on the services rendered) than what your doctor gets paid by the insurance company (which isn’t very much).

[JSwan]

Oh for God’s sake what a STUPID post.

hmmmm… .I have a concern about the rising cost of vet care so that means I don’t love my cat.

That is one of the DUMBEST posts I have EVER read on this BB.

[QUOTE=wendy;4201924]
why? the doctor and the vet have similar expensive training, are doing the same things, why does it matter what the species is? because you think cats aren’t worthy of having good medical care? why bother taking them to the vet then? just let it die.[/QUOTE]

[Trakehner]

[QUOTE=wendy;4201924]
why? the doctor and the vet have similar expensive training, are doing the same things, why does it matter what the species is? because you think cats aren’t worthy of having good medical care? why bother taking them to the vet then? just let it die.[/QUOTE]

Oh gawd…I’ve got to clean the pop off my keyboard…you’ve been accused of being “SPECIST!” Valuing people more than kitties!!

Doctors have much more insurance costs to deal with and finding and paying for a good nurse is 3 times the cost as a vet tech. There are no regulations regarding who can stick a needle in a puss. People don’t need vaccinations every year (neither do animals for that matter…another racket-Spring & Fall shots…I sure know my horses don’t have aids or a compromised immune system). Whole nother’ world between vet and human med.

[SonnysMom]

I would guess that vets have some type of professional liablility insurance but I would bet that it is no where near as expensive as medical malpractice insurance that your doctor needs to carry. Most of the vets are not located in the middle of the nice new medical office building which is going to carry a higher per square foot lease price.

I had a cat that broke all 4 bones in her hind leg. My vet was out of the country for the weekend so I took her to a vet that saw her previously. The told me there were 2 options- euthanize or a $1,700 operation to pin the bones. They had splinted and soft casted it to stablize it until Monday. Earliest she could have surgery was on Monday.
I took her to my regular vet on that Monday. He xrayed her with the splint on and saw the bones were pretty well lined up. We kept the soft cast on for 3 weeks and then every two weeks after that replaced the splint/soft cast. The cat is just fine and without xrays you could never tell which hind leg it was.
I could not have afforded $1,700 for a cat that I had only owned for about 4 months. If I had listened to the first vet she would be dead now instead still being a busy hunting kitty 7 years later.

[JSwan]

@Trakehner;4202104

Oh gawd…I’ve got to clean the pop off my keyboard…you’ve been accused of being “SPECIST!” Valuing people more than kitties!!

Well, I could really twist her thought process and assert that if the vets really loved animals, they’d work for free.

But I’m not stupid. At least not stupid enough to begrudge a veterinarian an honest living.

[wendy]

Whole nother’ world between vet and human med.

is it really? think about it. Humans haven’t a clue how much their medical care is costing, but are very much aware of how much it costs for their animals. My SO was in the hospital recently and they charged his insurance $90K for one night in the IC unit. My dog was in the IC for three days and they charged us $5K. We only found out about the human charge by accident. We were of course charged directly for the dog. who got better care.

[Ghazzu]

@JSwan;4202226

Well, I could really twist her thought process and assert that if the vets really loved animals, they’d work for free.

That particular guilt trip only works for the first year or so after graduation.
Then it begins to have a severely detrimental effect on any thoughts the vet may have had of discounting procedures or medications and supplies.

But I’m not stupid. At least not stupid enough to begrudge a veterinarian an honest living.

Not at all–you have the quite pragmatic approach of not patronizing those whose business practices you don’t like.

Shame that common sense is in short supply, eh?

[relocatedTXjumpr]

I haven’t read all pages of this, but I just took my two barn cats last week for simple rabies shots…nothing else…and I spent $80!!!

Didn’t even SEE a Vet, the tech simply opened the back of the cat crate and stuck them both in the butt and that was it. I was in the entire building less than 10 minutes.

I was shocked…rabies is pretty common around here, in fact its becoming more so and the county is urging citizens to have their animals vaccinated for rabies, if only rabies. I know its good animal husbandry to get your animals vaccinated, but, at $80 for two cats WITHOUT any exam or tests, I see why people don’t do it.

That’s just highway robbery, period. I can get an entire set of vaccinated and coggins done on the horse for just over $100 WITH a farm call and see an actual vet!

[hessy35]

[QUOTE=Trakehner;4202104]
Oh gawd…I’ve got to clean the pop off my keyboard…you’ve been accused of being “SPECIST!” Valuing people more than kitties!!

Doctors have much more insurance costs to deal with and finding and paying for a good nurse is 3 times the cost as a vet tech. There are no regulations regarding who can stick a needle in a puss. People don’t need vaccinations every year (neither do animals for that matter…another racket-Spring & Fall shots…I sure know my horses don’t have aids or a compromised immune system). Whole nother’ world between vet and human med.[/QUOTE]

LOL… a “Specist”. I love my cat, but I have a son to put through college.