Small animal vet rant

[JSwan]

Wow -I’m gonna call the Pope - we have a candidate for sainthood here!

Wendy is perfect and has the perfect life and nothing ever goes wrong and she has so much money she never has to worry about a thing ever in her entire life.

Hey wendy - show everyone your halo and wings so we can admire them.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lady - you need to stick your head out your window and think about what other people might be going through - and consider the possibility that disaster can strike ANYONE - including YOU.

And if you’d like to see what financial ruin looks like - drive through my county and see the auction signs on houses and the animals in the shelters.

It happens. It could happen to you. And if it does - no one is going to give a damn about your dogs and your need to feed and care for them. Yes, even in your perfect life you could lose everything - or lose enough that you are unable to afford the life you want for your animals.

Hope you never feel a lump in your breast, lose your job, become disabled, or have any other problem that drains that little savings account of yours. Two years? That’s not enough.

[dalpal]

[QUOTE=wendy;4205166]
I own three large dogs. The insurance per year is less than 300 dollars. They have paid for ACl tears and cancer treatments, thousands of dollars, in the last three years, with no fuss or muss or “dropping” us. Vet medicine is actually more advanced than human medicine because they don’t have to fight the FDA.

bet you if your child had been diagnosed with cancer you’d not have him killed before trying some treatment. Because you had some kind of insurance. If you can’t afford to have dependents don’t have them. I made sure I had enough in savings to go for at least two years without income before acquiring dependents. Shame on you.[/QUOTE]

No shame on you for judging others. For your info missy, I have 3 dogs, 2 cats, and two horses…and they are treated like royalty. With that said, I wouldn’t dare come on this board and judge others. According to your theory, I guess people should just dump their dogs at the pound if they cannot afford a 5K vet bill…OR, perhaps they should drop them off with you, since you apparently have it all figured out.

I’m certainly glad that you will never have any money woes…good for you. What’s that old saying…NEVER SAY NEVER

[dalpal]

Wendy…BTW, are you a card carrying member of PETA???

[yankeeclipper]

[QUOTE=Meredith Clark;4192232]
I hate ranting but I’m just so frustrated! I’ve never been able to find a good small animal vet for my dog and 2 house cats. I always feel like they are pressuring me to do unnecessary tests and treatments and charge SO much for normal care ($30 for a rabies vaccine???).

I had an appt for my dog and 1 cat to get their rabies boosters that somehow esclated to $400!!! I was charged $50 each for an exam (I didn’t even see the vet tech take out a stethoscope! ) and I was specifically told they were only getting shots, no exam (they are both in good health). They wouldn’t give me a refill on my heartgaurd with out a test and they also did fecal tests.

I got a voicemail today from the vet saying they had the tests back and she’d like to go over them with me, but the office is closed so I can call back this weekend. :mad:

So now of course I’m worried sick my dog somehow got heartworms! Why wouldn’t she just tell me on the voicemail or call when they were open.

I’ve never had these sort of problems with equine vets. I’m SO annoyed[/QUOTE]

Preaching to the choir. Just went today

$104 $52 x 2 dogs exam
$46 $23 x 2 rabies
$46 $23 x 2 distemper
$44 $22 x 2 kennel cough
$40 special diet
$22 proin 60 day supply
$35 for urine test for dog pre-disposed for struvite crystals

Still need to do heartworm test so I can get the wormer. I’m going to Luv my Pet thru Petco. Kicking myself that I missed the time over the weekend. I could have saved myself $104.

In my area, I have found that most of the Vets are now owned by corporations and when that happened the exam fee went up substantially.

Yea farrier is coming tomorrow. board and training $ are due and I still need to buy more Amplify before the holiday.

And I wonder why I have no money for a social life.

[foggybok]

[QUOTE=JSwan;4205132]
Yikes. Must be hard to deal with a client that isn’t able to grasp the situation. I really do understand that vets actually want to have a life. Other professionals complain of the same thing. Work life balance isn’t only an issue for vets - though not too many professions involve extracting a calf in the middle of a snowstorm with a lantern and the moon as lighting.

I get it. Really.[/QUOTE]

I know you get it, it shows in your posts

[QUOTE=JSwan;4205132]
But all y’all gotta realize that there is a breaking point and when it’s reached - it’s not us or you that suffer. The animals do. They’re the ones that don’t get vet care, euthanized instead of treated, taken to shelters or auctions.

.[/QUOTE]
We get it too, but really there are reasons many practitioners can not do what you say…Times have changed, the economics have changed, standard of care has changed…Equipment, land, competent help have all gone up at an astounding rate… The kind of care available today is more expensive, diagnostic equipment and treatment options are available that we never had before, but it comes with a price…

@JSwan;4205132

That’s not an attempt to guilt you into lowering prices. Not at all. Just saying that we’re not dealing with toasters, here. The cost of vet care does not appear (in my limited experience where I live) to be in line with other cost of living increases.

That may be true in your area, but probably because they were such a bargain before…so seems to have increased more than it should, but maybe is just finally getting to where it should be?

.[/QUOTE]

In the example I offered with spring shots for 3 horses - there was no actual business reason for the tremendous difference in price. Similar practice - and if you think about it the equine only vet didn’t even offer as many services as the real large animal vet. The large animal vet even had a greater exposure to liability and he needed to be up to date and informed on many more issues affecting his practice than the equine only vet.

And yet - hundreds of dollars lower in price.

Are you sure there was no business reason? There might not have been one that was apparent to you, but I bet there WAS a reason. BTW, liability is MUCH more expensive for Equine only. By far the most expensive category…

I’d agree a mixed practice is harder, especially these days when the knowledge base has expanded exponentially

Do you know that the average food animal vet makes more than the average Equine vet (and more than the average SA vet as well)?

Pets are a luxury in the best of times - and yet I would not deny the solace and companionship of a pet to the poorest among us. But like any luxury they are the first to be disposed or neglected when times get tough. I do not want pet ownership to be made more expensive - because I do not believe it is in the best interest of people OR animals.

My ex-husband used to tell me we would always be broke because some 13 year old girl would call me with a dieing horse and no money and I would fix it. He was probably right, so it’s probably a good thing I make my money outside of the field So yeah, I;m with ya, pet ownership should be for everyone and everyone should be able to get care, but vets really can’t afford to subsidize it either…

I don’t know what the answer is - but I do know that if vets think they can continue on this path there are simply going to be more animals lacking care, more owners opting to treat their own animals, and those spa services you’re offering aren’t going to be purchased except by the wealthy few.

Maybe getting back to basics is something to consider. Not going back to the 50’s - just reconsidering some of the decisions you’re making that may be driving clients away. They may be driven away to a poorer quality vet - or they be driven away to treating their own pet with God knows what they buy off the Internet, or they may not treat their pet at all.

I think most of us consider these things every day, and the answer is not easy. I don’t know how many people I know that have left the field because it is too frustrating to deal with some of this stuff day to day…

Getting back to the basics isn’t so easy… like I said, we have to follow standard of care guidelines… I think for people with cost constraints, there are ample opportunities to use low cost spay neuter clinics and vaccination clinics, especially in metropolitan areas where most of the yuppification complaints are …

There’s a huge flip side to all these arguments, but I’ll leave it alone… I think this thread has done it’s time… And it’s too nice outside, gotta go back out!

[Parker_Rider]

[QUOTE=wendy;4205166]

bet you if your child had been diagnosed with cancer you’d not have him killed before trying some treatment. Because you had some kind of insurance. If you can’t afford to have dependents don’t have them. I made sure I had enough in savings to go for at least two years without income before acquiring dependents. Shame on you.[/QUOTE]

Oh please. You can explain what’s going on to a child. You can explain that it will be painful and that there is a chance you could live. You can rationalize to a child.
Please try telling that to a dog. It will sound like Woodstock talking to them. You can’t EXPLAIN the pain to a dog/cat/horse. They hurt for no reason ascertainable to them and YOU are the one who does it to them. That’s not fair.

As for the rest of this statement… :rolleyes: figure out that sometimes unexpected things happen. choices have to be made. life’s not all rainbows and sunshine; the Boy Scout preparation motto doesn’t always get to hold water for some.

[JSwan]

Hopefully you’re saddling your horse and not still reading…

I don’t know why a particular vet would charge so much more than another.

What I do know is that I found the price difference egregious and he lost a client.

So he didn’t lose a few hundreds dollars. He lots potentially tens of thousands of dollars over the span of a long term vet/client relationship.

Whatever the reasons are - in the end if the client leaves the justification the vet has for price extremes simply isn’t relevant. The client is gone and may not be replaced. Or, that client will voice objections so loudly that purchasing vaccines and meds off the net is supported by the legislature - which will impact a local vet’s bottom line.

The consumer will simply shop elsewhere - and be rather vocal about protecting that right.

I agree that standards and costs and everything else in veterinary medicine has changed - and I agree that there are legitimate arguments in response to consumer complaints. Not all people are reasonable - and sorry but a few people insist that the vet perform miracles and not allow any tests or diagnostics. That must drive vets crazy.

But there is only so much money to go around. I know care is expensive - but even folks like me who are thrilled that great vet care is available for pets - look at some of these prices and think they are truly out of line. Really and truly. I’m not talking about diagnostics - or surgeries, or complex stuff - just basic vaccines and visits.

[Ghazzu]

@wendy;4205166

I own three large dogs. The insurance per year is less than 300 dollars. They have paid for ACl tears and cancer treatments, thousands of dollars, in the last three years, with no fuss or muss or “dropping” us. Vet medicine is actually more advanced than human medicine because they don’t have to fight the FDA.

bet you if your child had been diagnosed with cancer you’d not have him killed before trying some treatment. Because you had some kind of insurance. If you can’t afford to have dependents don’t have them. I made sure I had enough in savings to go for at least two years without income before acquiring dependents. Shame on you.

First off, veterinarians do have to deal with the FDA, and the DEA, and APHIS, etc.

As for the rest, report back to us after you’ve had a child with cancer and a horse that needs a second colic surgery with an iffy prognosis at the same time and tell us which one you spend the $$ on.

[MistyBlue]

and killing animals because you just don’t want to pay for medical care suggests to me you shouldn’t own animals.

If you can’t afford to have dependents don’t have them. I made sure I had enough in savings to go for at least two years without income before acquiring dependents. Shame on you.

Hate to break this to you Saintly McJudgy Pants:
Horses age out of insurance.
Oh, the horrors!

Now not everyone has your level of sainthood…but some of us can afford both insurance and large surprise vet bills.
HOWEVER…some of us have different outlooks than you might have. Would I pay $10k for colic surgery? No, even though I adore my horses like family members. Does that make me cold hearted because I can afford that? Nope. It makes me a realist. Let me explain:
For $10k I put an animal that does not handle stress, anesthesia or pain very well and has zero capacity to understand any of that. An animal that is genetically programmed to be in near constant panic when they’re ill or injured because Mother Nature made them prey animals.
I also run the very credible risk of having a horse afterwards with recurring colic bouts, putting it through further misery and fear.
And for the sum of $10k I could give my own horse that I care for deeply an honorable, fearless and pain free end and use those funds to help out many other horses who weren’t as lucky to have responsible owners. Because, to me, the best use for my income is to help as many as possible that have the best chances for better lives regardless of my personal attachment to one single horse that has a low chance of healthy, happy and pain free life.

[Kovy]

Sigh. I haven’t read all of the 9 pages, but, I’ve come here to whine along with everyone else who is not happy with their small animal vet. My large animal vets I love to pieces, but, I’m really stuggling to find a suitable small animal vet.

I just came home from taking the two Corgi’s, and their barn cat pal, for their annual vaccinations, to the tune of $671.80. I am not a happy camper. Does that not seem like a very large sum of money for 3 young, healthy animals just to be vaccinated?!

I guess the good news is I won’t have to worry about it again until next year…

[dalpal]

[QUOTE=Kovy;4205387]
Sigh. I haven’t read all of the 9 pages, but, I’ve come here to whine along with everyone else who is not happy with their small animal vet. My large animal vets I love to pieces, but, I’m really stuggling to find a suitable small animal vet.

I just came home from taking the two Corgi’s, and their barn cat pal, for their annual vaccinations, to the tune of $671.80. I am not a happy camper. Does that not seem like a very large sum of money for 3 young, healthy animals just to be vaccinated?!

I guess the good news is I won’t have to worry about it again until next year…[/QUOTE]

Kovy…for curiousity sake…can you break that bill down and tell us what city you are in. That is a HUGE bill for annual visit for 2 dogs and a cat.

[SLW]

@foggybok;4205259

Do you know that the average food animal vet makes more than the average Equine vet (and more than the average SA vet as well)?

Where is your source on that statement? It could only be true if you are factoring in all the vets on govt payroll which is vastly differently from an actual vet who does only food animal.

You know ‘food animals’ are a product and the expense to get them to market must be low. That is why a manual cow preg check is $3 and a mare is $40, more if it is a US preg check. Castrate a calf- $3, castrate a colt- $120.

Where I work we do enough food animals and I quote him “to satisfy the farm boy still left in me”. It does not pay the bills, no way, even if that was the only work we were looking for.

[Kovy]

[QUOTE=dalpal;4205398]
Kovy…for curiousity sake…can you break that bill down and tell us what city you are in. That is a HUGE bill for annual visit for 2 dogs and a cat.[/QUOTE]

I don’t have the breakdown in front of me right now, but, the city is outside of Atlanta GA, in Douglasville.

But, I do remember from looking at the bill that there was an “exam fee” that was rather hefty, and very expensive bloodwork ($80+) that I do not understand and will be calling about tomorrow… The other charges were for the vaccines, which is ALL I requested to have done. I did not purchase heartworm med, or any other meds that were “suggested” because my wonderful equine vet calls me a script in to Smart Pak for that, thank God!

[Pancakes]

[QUOTE=Trakehner;4203672]

“You are VERY ignorant in how veterinary care actually works…fecal flotations are not just floating for 20 minutes with fecasol (centrifugation, special flotation mediums, and lab analysis are often needed to pick up all types of worms and protozoa)”

Snicker…that’s very cute, lab analysis picking up protozoa…I call BS on that one. Fecal float, any gross worms and a broad sprectrum wormer. Ever had a vet do a fecal on your horse? They do them on the racetrack (I know, I used to do them when I had my lab). The non-track vets just suggest a quick paste worming changing them often enough so sensitivity remains.

Once again, ignorant owners make for poorer vets. Ignorant is the description of an owner who doesn’t want to pay for unnecessary tests, overpriced drugs and Science Diet/Luxury diets when a simpler and quality food will work just fine. Most dogs and cats are healthy. Keep a cat inside where they live twice as long…they don’t get parasites, torn up in fights and injuries…keep em’ thinner on a good diet and they do fine. All sorts of dogs are bred with physical weaknesses and predispositions for medical problems…so what?
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Ignorant is a description of you – Yes, you can pick up protozoa on fecals. Ever hear of giardia? You CAN see the live trophozoites on a fecal smear. This is a small animal thread, remember? I don’t care what track vets do or horse vets recommend. This is talking about small animal vets. Clearly, you don’t realize what goes into doing fecals in small animal hospitals, and you have no place saying what should or shouldn’t be charged for.

And FYI, animal being kept indoors does NOT automatically make them healthier. They can still get heartworm and fleas. Kept indoors, they are more likely to have a sedentary lifestyle and are more prone to obesity (the #1 problem in pets AND humans…hmmmmm, coincidence? I think not.), and still can get things like heart disease, joint disease, neurological diseases, etc. You can’t assume a dog or cat is healthy just because you feed it and keep it indoors. You even admitted it yourself…

Look, I’m trying to get a point across – you can’t be close-minded to the fact that there might be things wrong with your pet. Your vet is just out to identify if those problems are there and if anything can be done about it. If you don’t agree with that philosophy, don’t take your animal to a vet. You want cheaper drugs? Buy poorer quality and risk the consequences. You don’t want “unnecessary” tests? Then don’t have them, but don’t be surprised if something shows up later that could have been caught earlier. I suppose peace of mind isn’t worth it for you.

And PLEASE do not patronize me and call things I say “cute” when clearly you do not know what you are talking about. If belittling what I say helps you sleep well at night and makes you feel better, maybe it’s because you know deep down that I’m not saying anything wrong.

[Pancakes]

Parker_Rider, JSwan, avezan, foggybok: Thanks. I realize that all vets are not created equal, despite the love I have for this profession and what it stands for. I sincerely am sorry for those that have been taken advantage of in some form or another where the only one that suffers in the end is the animal. I know what it’s like to be on the other end of the bill and I will never forget it. Thank you for understanding that I, like other professionals, have to make a living and times are changing, and so are the prices. Foggybok, I will try to have a thicker hide…remember, I’m still green. I’m sure I’ll learn the hard way…sigh.

Wendy, part of the job of a vet is to eliminate suffering in animals. If a pet has a life-threatening condition and the owner is unable to pay or find someone to pay for the treatment, there is NOTHING wrong with euthanizing the animal if it means a painless death. Euthanasia is a better end than suffering from witholding treatment. And no, it’s not always something you feel good about, and it’s not black and white as to what is and isn’t a case this definitely applies to…but that’s for a different discussion.

[Rubyfree]

[QUOTE=wendy;4205166]
I own three large dogs. The insurance per year is less than 300 dollars. They have paid for ACl tears and cancer treatments, thousands of dollars, in the last three years, with no fuss or muss or “dropping” us. Vet medicine is actually more advanced than human medicine because they don’t have to fight the FDA.

bet you if your child had been diagnosed with cancer you’d not have him killed before trying some treatment. Because you had some kind of insurance. If you can’t afford to have dependents don’t have them. I made sure I had enough in savings to go for at least two years without income before acquiring dependents. Shame on you.[/QUOTE]

Well, bless your heart.
I adopted a twelve year old cane corso. Please enlighten me as to what insurance group would have extended my elderly, 100lb. dog coverage for a ‘reasonable’ amount. Perhaps, since I couldn’t have afforded insurance for her if I’d found someone to offer coverage, I should have left her depressed in her puddle of urine in the overcrowded, underfunded shelter? Certainly, she would have been better off there than with my irresponsible self.

Anyway.

I believe I’ve told this story on here before, but it’s a prime example of what is being discussed on this thread.
I worked for a vet that was a part of a large veterinary practice group in this area. I was often appalled at the prices & bills, and was gently encouraged to suggest certain procedures and routine care practices to clients, but as the quality of care was excellent, the pay was good, and I felt that I could ‘suggest’ without shoving things down client’s gullets, I kept working there. It was a paycheck.
I came in for a closing shift one evening to find an $1800 bill for a dental on the system, waiting to be paid when the client picked up Schnookums. The dental was on a nineteen year old cat owned by a 92 year old woman on a fixed income. She had been given an estimate of $350, and no one had called her to give her the news of the final tally. This cat was NOT doing well coming out of anesthesia and major mouth surgery. When I- who would have been charged with breaking the bill to her- mentioned that perhaps this was an act of douchebaggery that I wasn’t willing to be a part of, the doctor examined the bill and made exactly twenty-seven dollars in discounts. This vet was a good guy, and he meant well, but his social skills were just wretched. It NEVER occurred to him that perhaps this was an excessive level of intervention in this case. While this is an extreme example, it is demonstrative of the increasingly prevalent attitude in veterinary medicine these days- that because we CAN, we SHOULD. And that just ain’t true. It isn’t true in human medicine either, but these ethical questions are being discussed far more openly in human medicine.

My regular vet, who is out in the sticks and does large and small animal care, charges seven bucks for a fecal and offers a 50% discount on the office visit for every animal brought in at the same time after the first. The practice I worked for, company wide, charges sevenTEEN dollars for a fecal and offers no multiple pet discount. My regular vet does feline dentals for $97 dollars barring extractions, etc. The practice I worked for has a base price of two to three hundred dollars. That isn’t simply a matter of covering costs. They do it because they CAN.

[Rubyfree]

@Pancakes;4205502

Look, I’m trying to get a point across – you can’t be close-minded to the fact that there might be things wrong with your pet. Your vet is just out to identify if those problems are there and if anything can be done about it. If you don’t agree with that philosophy, don’t take your animal to a vet. You want cheaper drugs? Buy poorer quality and risk the consequences. You don’t want “unnecessary” tests? Then don’t have them, but don’t be surprised if something shows up later that could have been caught earlier. I suppose peace of mind isn’t worth it for you.

Pancakes, I just want to say this- you aren’t the problem. I don’t know you, but it’s obvious from your posts that you are passionate about animal care and your profession, and that’s wonderful. It’s also obvious that you understand the problem that IS being discussed, and I appreciate your standing up for what you hold dear. There are folks who don’t have your clarity of conscience in the biz, and they are hurting the reputation of people like yourself. Get out there and fight the good fight- provide the best care you can, with consideration for the quality of life for both the patient and the client, and you’ll do much to counter that negative image. If you ever come to practice in NY, let me know; the practice I frequent is in desperate need of a new doc or two. They are so busy they can’t see straight. They are also one of the cheapest practices in the area. There is a correlation.

[Ben_and_Me]

[QUOTE=SLW;4205452]
Where is your source on that statement? It could only be true if you are factoring in all the vets on govt payroll which is vastly differently from an actual vet who does only food animal.

You know ‘food animals’ are a product and the expense to get them to market must be low. That is why a manual cow preg check is $3 and a mare is $40, more if it is a US preg check. Castrate a calf- $3, castrate a colt- $120.

Where I work we do enough food animals and I quote him “to satisfy the farm boy still left in me”. It does not pay the bills, no way, even if that was the only work we were looking for.[/QUOTE]

Compare the starting salaries for food animal vs. equine exclusive.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos076.htm

[dalpal]

[QUOTE=Rubyfree;4205629]
Pancakes, I just want to say this- you aren’t the problem. I don’t know you, but it’s obvious from your posts that you are passionate about animal care and your profession, and that’s wonderful. It’s also obvious that you understand the problem that IS being discussed, and I appreciate your standing up for what you hold dear. There are folks who don’t have your clarity of conscience in the biz, and they are hurting the reputation of people like yourself. Get out there and fight the good fight- provide the best care you can, with consideration for the quality of life for both the patient and the client, and you’ll do much to counter that negative image. If you ever come to practice in NY, let me know; the practice I frequent is in desperate need of a new doc or two. They are so busy they can’t see straight. They are also one of the cheapest practices in the area. There is a correlation. :)[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Pancakes this isn’t a thread gripping about people/vets like yourself…there are MANY WONDERFUL veterinarians in the world. But as in any other profession…there are greedy people looking to take advantge of someone through their pet. Look at some of the outrageous bills that some of us have quoted on this thread…the one about th 1800.00 dental with a 92 year old owner is heartbreaking.

I pay my farrier well, he does an awesome job…I would never complain. I do not mind paying fair prices for good care. I think most of us are upset (or at least I am) that there is such a wild difference in costs between practices. That’s why I called mine up today and talked to them. Didn’t change anything, but I felt like I needed to let them know that I am not going to be charged out the butt for services that someone else will do for half.

It’s one thing to make a good living…another to price gauge, try to push services/drugs on people to make more money. Then act offended when they say no thanks.

[Meredith_Clark]

[QUOTE=wendy;4205102]
why don’t people buy medical insurance for their pets? I have very affordable “trauma” medical insurance on all of my animals. I don’t want money to be part of the decision about what to do. I want to decide what to do on the basis of probable outcome- if the treatment will most likely be futile, then the comfort of a humane death; if the treatment will cure the animal for sure I don’t want the guilt of having killed the animal just because I don’t want to pay for it. How could you live with yourself after killing your best friend over a few thousand dollars?[/QUOTE]

I LOVE how you post this right after my post that says “He was fully insured”. I do have my horses insured; almost $1000 each a year and that’s for major medical/ surgical- their mortality is really low to help me save money (think less than 4k).

I really hope you posted at the same time as me and your comment about the [QUOTE=wendy;4205102] guilt of having killed the animal just because I don’t want to pay for it [/QUOTE] was not directed at my situation with Shorty. I had 3 vets look at him in the 24 hours he got sick and drove him 2 hours to New Bolton Center and told them to do ANYTHING they could to save him. At the end of the day he was SUFFERING and it would have been inhumane for me to put him through surgery.

I respect your right to have opinions but please don’t be so judgmental toward people and situations you don’t know anything about.