Small group turnout and access to stalls?

[DressageLin]

I am considering re-working the turnout situation at the barn. I have pastures that are cross-fenced with gates in between. One center pasture could be easily connected to allow the horses to enter the stalls through dutch doors that typically are kept closed in the winter. I have a couple questions.

Assuming I have a small turnout group (let’s say 2-3 horses), could it be a safety issue if they decide to crowd in one stall together? Anyone had issues with this or tried it?

Also, I’m in the northeast and typically close the barn after the horses are turned out to keep it a touch warmer. Would allowing stall doors to remain open cause greater chance of frozen pipes, etc.

I am a big believer in turnout, but on the truly ugly days that I may be tempted to leave them inside, I think giving the horses the option to come in or out would be ideal. However, maybe that only works with individual paddocks.

I only have a covered shelter in one field, so opening the stalls could, in theory, help solve that issue.

I’d love to hear your experiences.

[clanter]

I think giving the horses the option to come in or out would be ideal.

at least for me I would not allow them random access to stalls but would would use a loafing shed to provide shelter and freedom of movement

[Marla_100]

A lot depends on the horses. Whenever I’ve had open stalls it seems at least two always want to crowd each other in the same stall. I even put up a separater in a covered shelter to prevent problems.

[splitrockfarmnc]

I have 2 mares at home and most of the time I give them the choice to come and go from the stalls to the dry lot as they please. Sometimes I give them access to the entire pasture as well, but that depends on grass condition, weather, time of year, fluffiness of one of the girls, etc.
It’s interesting… I wouldn’t say they get along fabulously but I frequently see them sharing a stall. I figure it’s a social thing. They might not love each other all the time but they are a herd and it’s just the two of them v. The World. Knock on wood, no injuries or damage to the barn has occurred. That being said, I don’t think every horse would be happy with sharing their space so you need to be prepared to go back to individual stalls if things don’t seem to be working out.
I can’t comment on the frozen barn question because I’m in the south and have a shedrow.

[trubandloki]

The answer to the open stalls being safe totally depends on your herd. Not so much the number of horses but the personalities of the horses.

I have a herd of two (so a very small number of horses) that I can not do this with. The one horse likes to corner the other horse and start kicking so having anywhere that a horse can get trapped would not work.

On the topic of leaving doors open - Inside my barn is the same temperature as outside my barn because there are always doors open. If the temperature gets below freezing outside, it will get below freezing inside.

[Redlei44]

I agree that it really just depends on the individual horses. A friend has their barn/paddock set up like this with anywhere from 2 - 6 stalls/horses, depending on how they open or close gates. During the day the horses share stalls (or not) according to dominance. Nobody is so dominant that they purposely go after another horse in a stall - if a dominant horse enters an occupied stall, the other just leaves - obviously this is critical.

At feeding time the horses basically all learn which stall is “theirs”. My friend does have to close the doors behind them while they eat to prevent fast-eating dominant ones from kicking the slower ones out of their stalls and eating their grain too. They keep the stalls lightly bedded and/or shut when the weather is nice to prevent the horses from using the stalls only as toilets. They do have separate run-in sheds as well.

Regarding freezing in the barn, I think this is mainly an issue for human comfort - the wind definitely blows through the barn when all of the stall doors are open and it can be downright miserable to try to work in the barn in the dead of winter. But if your barn is properly winter-proofed with water lines sunk below the freeze line and heated water buckets, etc, it shouldn’t make a difference.

[saddleup]

Mine is set up with two stalls open to 40 foot runs that are open to their pasture. I have two geldings who are best friends, and they come and go as they please. Often they are both in one stall, but they eat separately because that’s what they choose to do. I throw hay in both stalls, and one leaves and goes out and around to the other stall. Usually about halfway through their hay, the more dominant gelding will saunter around to the other stall and tell that gelding to change places with him, and they end up in the other stalls. It’s their eating dance.

They will sleep in separate stalls, too, and they figure out which one they will use.

I’ve always had it set up this way, and it has never been a problem.

[js]

We’ve always had stalls open to paddocks/pasture and allowed horses to come and go as they pleased. They would be separated when fed and if I needed to keep them in due to weather. Thankfully 3 geldings and 1 mare got along just fine and we never had any issues. It was not unusual to find all 4 horses packed into one stall during the day standing around. They were happy with it, I was apprehensive about it but in 28 years we never had issue with it. We have the same set up at our new place, only have 3 geldings now and they tend to stay in separate stalls or one in a stall and one in a paddock. They are separated to feed and when they are put in for the night.

Trying this set up is dependent on how well your horses get along.

[2DogsFarm]

I have kept 2 geldings this way for 15yrs.

Not the same 2, 1st set was here 5yrs, next set 6 & now I have the survivor from Set 2, a new(er) horse & 3yrs ago added a mini.

I have a center aisle barn with 2 12x12 box stalls & mini has a 10x12.
The bigger stalls have always been left open to the sacrifice paddock, that, in turn, opens to pastures. Mini’s stall (added later) has an entrance only he can access: 4’ tall by 2’ wide.

Horses come in, on their own, to get fed hay & grain then go out as they please.
I have never had a problem with agression.

1st pair - 16h TB & 17h TWH - routinely shared a stall just to hang out, but separated by themselves for feeding.
Same for 2nd pair - 13h pony & 17h+ WB - & now the gutsy little mini will eat his grain in his own stall, then sashay in with horse to share hay.

On occasion, all 3 hang out in one stall.

[OneTwoMany]

@DressageLin

I am considering re-working the turnout situation at the barn. I have pastures that are cross-fenced with gates in between. One center pasture could be easily connected to allow the horses to enter the stalls through dutch doors that typically are kept closed in the winter. I have a couple questions.

Assuming I have a small turnout group (let’s say 2-3 horses), could it be a safety issue if they decide to crowd in one stall together? Anyone had issues with this or tried it?

Also, I’m in the northeast and typically close the barn after the horses are turned out to keep it a touch warmer. Would allowing stall doors to remain open cause greater chance of frozen pipes, etc.

I am a big believer in turnout, but on the truly ugly days that I may be tempted to leave them inside, I think giving the horses the option to come in or out would be ideal. However, maybe that only works with individual paddocks.

I only have a covered shelter in one field, so opening the stalls could, in theory, help solve that issue.

I’d love to hear your experiences.

You’ve received a lot of useful feedback above. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. It depends on the herd and even then, sometimes things can go awry. If you want to err on the side of safety, don’t allow two or three horses access to the same stall. A safer setup would be a run-in if you want multiple horses to occupy the same shelter. If you ever have the misfortune of seeing one horse pin another in a stall and kick the “you know what out of him” you’ll know why multiple horses in the same stall is a “non starter” for some folks.

Whether leaving the stall doors open will result in a greater chance of frozen pipes depends on your set up. In the Northeast, usually the answer is “yes”. Perhaps you can purchase a couple of thermometers one for inside and one for outside and monitor the temps when the doors are closed, open, when the horses are inside, outside, etc. Ambientweather.com have some reasonably priced set ups that can be monitored from your phone, tablet or lap top.

[Libby2563]

I wouldn’t do it myself due to the risk of injury, though obviously some people do with no problems. Does your center pasture connect to the one with the shelter so you can give them access to that on questionable weather days instead?

[Bluey]

In reality, horses are adaptable, most succsessful species are.

Mature horses don’t need to live where they can “reach and touch” someone, or be touched.
Nice if some get along most of the time to do mutual grooming and play with.
Not so nice when it involves fighting and chasing and biting and kicking with intent to do harm when someone is cranky or fighting over resources.

Youngsters will play more.
Not so much mature horses, that may resent at times that kind of closeness.

Best is to have adaptable management, stables and fences where if the current horses are ok together, change gates and open or closed doors to accommodate them.
If horses are safer from being chased or a need to chase others, have a way to have individual stalls/runs/pastures.

Or only keep horses that fit whatever way you choose to manage them.
We did that for years once we quit breeding and training for the public.
Our personal horses, if a horse didn’t fit with the herd and would not adapt, he was sold where he may.
Sure let some very nice horses go just because of that requirement.
We would have been better off giving in to what those horses needed and reconfigure so we had individual places for them, not be hard headed about sink or swim, adjust to herd life or better find a different home.

Those studies that insist horses are best living in herds or the closest to that we can manage as domesticated horses?
I think they are, as we were, blinded by following a theory and trying to make it fit at whatever cost.
They tend to ignore those many horses that don’t thrive under that theory of how horses should live.

Best if we carefully consider both, how to help horses adapt to our management while our management adapting to their individual needs.

[Weezer]

I have a small barn that doubles as a run-in. I installed sliding stall doors on the sides of the middle stall so they can go right through. It works really well and on the occasion when one stall has been completely closed off, two horses occasionally get into the same stall. Sometimes they’re fine with it, other times they’re a bit grumpy. If it’s at all possible to create a flow-through like that, it would be ideal. We’ve got snow and ice 4 months a year and in the 8 years I’ve had this set up, I’ve locked the horses in less than once a year.

[clanter]

@Weezer

We’ve got snow and ice 4 months a year and in the 8 years I’ve had this set up, I’ve locked the horses in less than once a year.

never had ours locked up much longer than a few days, but after four months they just may run away

[Mango20]

It works fine at my house, with four horses who know their place in the herd, and none of them being very aggressive. Two horses and two ponies can access four stalls and the 10 x 24’ aisle by way of the 10’ aisle doorway. Sometimes the horses just stand in the aisle and the ponies can’t get in. Sometimes I’ll find two sharing a stall, and sometimes that’s not by choice (a pony was in the stall then a big horse came in and the pony was “trapped” inside, not wanting to try to scoot past and through the door). In cases like that, from what I can tell, the pony just patiently waits at the back of the stall until they can get a chance to leave, and the horse just ignores them. In any case, I’ve used this set up for 20 years with no injuries or issues other than one broken stall board. I’ve had three other horses or ponies in the mix over the years, and always had 3 or 4 at a time. Ideally, I’d prefer to also have doors on the outside walls of the stalls, for two enter/exit points per stall, but it’s been okay with only one door.

[Simkie]

I had a set up where this was possible–barn with Dutch doors off the stalls, with runs, runs opened into sacrifice area, which opened into pasture. Great set up. NO WAY would I ever leave stalls open to the herd of four. Sure, it can work…until it doesn’t, and then there’s just no room for error.

Instead, we built a 12’ deep run in off that side of the barn. Horses had access to the 12’ wide runs that went up to the stalls, and the shelter the run in provided, but stall doors were closed when horses were out on pasture/sacrifice. It worked very well and while the 12’ wide span still made me a little nervous, it was enough room where one could get away if anyone was crabby. It probably helped that they were always fed in the field and never in the runs while out together.

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[SonnysMom]

My friend has a 3 stall barn with 2 horses. She has removed the divider between two of the stalls creating a double stall with 2 doors to the aisle and 2 doors to the pasture. She leaves both pasture doors open. This way there is always an exit for the less dominant horse to get away from the dominant horse. She feeds them in 2 separate stalls and keeps the single closed off when they are in the pasture.

[horsepoor]

The only time I have let mine share a stall like that is when it was the big dumb slow warmblood and his mini mule companion – and even then, it was only after I saw that she could never be cornered as she was too smart and quick for him. We’d actually made one stall “hers” with a barrier across that she could go under to enter and exit but the big dumb slow warmblood could not, so that was her safe zone. But she preferred going in his stall to steal his hay (out of a feeder set up high so she supposedly couldn’t reach it but she still managed).

Now we just have normal non-mini horses and all have separate paddocks off the stalls - no sharing. I’m just too concerned about one being cornered or harassed. I do have overhangs off the stalls that could provide a shared covered space if I ever chose to do that in the future. Being so much more open than a stall, there is always an escape path. Maybe if, like mentioned above, there were two doors so no chance of cornering, I might consider it.

[DressageLin]

Thanks, everyone. This thread confirmed my thoughts and concerns. Sounds like it can work for the perfect situations, but there is certainly risk.

[TMares]

I can’t risk it. I have three stable geldings who get along well, but one is dumb socially and puts himself in dumb situations. He would eventually bolt out of a stall and knock a hip … I just can’t trust that it would work for me.