Small pony--how much larger can I breed her to?

[MoreHorsesThanSense]

I just got a fabulous, well-bred, flashy welsh mare. She’s about 12.2hh and big bodied. She’s had several foals in the past but was always bred to a small or medium stud. All of her foals have finished as smalls or small mediums. I would like to produce something I can ride–14hh or better. Foal would have a home for life, so Hony-sized would be fine too (I’m short). But obviously I don’t want to hurt the mare.

I remember reading a study on horseXpony crosses. The foals from pony moms and horse dads were born smaller than the equivalent crosses by pony studs crossed with horse dams, but matured to the same height. I can’t find the study, of course, now that I’m looking for it.

If I breed her to a Large welsh cross would that likely result in something 14hh+? Who would you recommend?
I’m assuming it would be unhealthy for the mare and foal to cross her with something larger (tiny TB or WB)? I know parent genes on both sides contribute, but what would a good “maximum” height be for a stallion in this case?

I am also fine breeding the mare to another smaller welsh, or even just keeping her as a pasture puff. But I love the mare, I love ponies/honies in general, and if I could safely breed her for a riding pony/horse for a 5’2 / 125lb adult, I would like to know my options.

thanks so much

[rosegold]

[QUOTE=MoreHorsesThanSense;8861872]
I remember reading a study on horseXpony crosses. The foals from pony moms and horse dads were born smaller than the equivalent crosses by pony studs crossed with horse dams, but matured to the same height. I can’t find the study, of course, now that I’m looking for it.[/QUOTE]

Could it be the Walton/Hammond paper on crossing Shires and Shetlands? That paper caused a bit of grief for a pony breeder I know (suddenly everyone and their brother thought she ought to let them cross massive warmbloods on her tiny mares, because “what’s the harm?”).

I have no advice to give you, as it’s not my area, but I remember that study pretty vividly.

Good luck!

[goodpony]

i have big ponies (14.1-15hh) and usually only go about 1 hand bigger and not much more. Not trying to be snarky but it might a wiser investment to buy the size you actually need rather than try to breed up from such a small pony.

[exvet]

I bred a maiden 13 hand mare to a 15 hand stallion. She gave me a lovely filly who at age 2 was 13.2 ish. I sold her as a two year old so I do not know what her height is now but I was pretty confident she would not go over 14.2, likely finishing at 14 or 14.1 tops. I have her full brother, yup, bred mare again and she had a slightly larger foal; but, despite having some height in her background it looks like the colt is going to finish at 14.1 to 14.2, most likely 14.2. For me this is perfect. There were two hands difference between the mare and stallion and I got lucky with the russian roulette of breeding. It doesn’t usually work out that way (split in the middle more or less) but I do know the bloodlines to both sides inside and out and felt the gamble was good. I would be hesitant to say that you will get a good size large out of a mare of that size. You might get 13.3 and possibly 14 hands depending on who you breed her to but as one who competes a 13 hand pony even those couple of extra inches can be nice. I too am 5’2".

[MoreHorsesThanSense]

Thanks for the input guys, and no snark interpreted. I have several other riding horses and am 100% fine breeding said welsh mare to a similar sized stallion, or something slightly larger and hope to end up with a medium. I have ridden mediums and own one, but would really have loved to get a bit larger than that. But I love this mare and would never do intentionally do anything to jeopardize her safety.

[Willesdon]

Why not go to the source and contact the breed society in the UK? I would think they could give you some practical advice http://wpcs.uk.com/

[VirginiaBred]

You don’t want to breed a mare of that size to anything bigger than a large pony. If you want to breed for something larger, switch the roles. Use a larger mare and a smaller stallion.

[Sugarbrook]

My words exactly Virginia Bred.

[DressageFancy]

Mare will not make a foal that is too big for her to birth. (Cattle will and thus cattlemen pay much more attention to bull vers cow size.) As a general rule you can expect a foal to grow 4 inches over the mare’s size. So for your mare a foal of about 13.2 at full growth. So you still might end up with a pony too small for you. I looked into this years ago when I wanted to breed a small pony to an Arab stallion. He was a Nationals Champion driving horse and stood 14.3 So a good 10 inches taller than my pony mare. We had to stand the mare on a large manure pile (before AI) so that the stallion could cover her. She gave me a carbon copy of the stallion in a small package! The foal matured to 13.1 and won both at halter and driving classes everywhere I took her.

[BWP]

Welsh B or C?

[MoreHorsesThanSense]

Farnley bred section B

[Man_in_Black]

My guy is out of a medium Welsh cross and is by Gatsby (17h). He’s currently 2.5yo standing 14.3 in front and 15.1ish behind with hopes of maturing about 15.3h. Like the OP I’m small, however I like a bigger horse. So the idea of having such a young horse that won’t stand tall, but will take up a lot of leg was exactly what I wanted.