Small update post #20 - Please tell me your stories of horses who got better....

…about standing at checks.

My TB and I have been out a few times now (we’re both new to hunting), and in all aspects but one, he’s been solid. That one has been a real pain; he doesn’t stand at checks. He’s easy to bring down and he’ll stand for a minute or two, but if there’s nothing to see and we have to stand for any real time, he becomes restless. He fidgets and tosses his head constantly. Standing next to friends hasn’t helped (yet).Trying to discipline him makes him more upset and I don’t want us to become a distraction. We end up moving to some secluded spot (if possible) and walking in circles until it’s time to move off again.

We moved up to second flight and he’s perfectly happy as long as we’re moving or he can see hounds working - but our last couple hunts were slow, in deep cover, and not very enjoyable because he just won’t stand.

When I went to apologize after the last hunt, I was assured that we were fine and that he’s not the first horse to behave like this. I heard tales of fabulous horses who started out the same way. Can this be true? Is there hope that with more experience, my guy may settle down? Can this be just part of making a good hunt horse? He’s a smart guy and usually a delightful ride. I’ll stick with it if there’s hope for him!

I will preface this to say that there are a few (very few) who just don’t stand well at checks. And as long as you take him away from the others to let him walk his circles, you are fine. And really, if he is taking care of himself, you, hounds and other horses around him while you are actively hunting, I think it’s very fair to forgive this one fault.

Here are some things to think about:

  1. Check saddle fit. I have found that horses that have ill fitting saddles (and you may have a princess and a pea) don’t like to stand. It feels better to move. Your saddle may “fit” for a 45 min hack in the ring and be tolerable, but be just uncomfortable for 3 hours over hill and dale. Things to remedy the situation could include changing to a sheepskin pad, using a thinline, or (hopefully not) getting a new saddle that fits better.

  2. Aching joints and muscles can cause some of the lack of desire to just stand. After talking with your vet, you could try a few days of bute/previcox to see if it’s related to joint or muscle pain.

  3. How fit is your horse? There is fit and then there is hunting fit. You are asking your horse to carry you over terrain for an extended time.

  4. Do you practice “checks” when you hack out alone or on trail rides with groups? I’m sure you made sure he would cross water, logs, mud bogs, travel in company, reverse field…have you “taught” him to check? On my first horse, I would get on and ride, and ride, and ride. The only time we stopped was to open a gate, or for me to get off. So he thought “checks” lasted mere seconds rather than minutes. This was a rude awakening for me when we started hunting. So, I had to go home and do some homework. I rode in a large field and at every corner I would stop for 2 seconds. I would drop my reins to the buckle and become a sack of potatoes. If he didn’t stand we would circle as unemotionally as possible and try again. When he was good we would move to the next corner. When he could do the check without mistakes, I would up the time to stand.

On my new horse (a then 5 yr old OTTB), I would bring cookies in my pocket on trail rides. If he did something really well, I would stop him and give him a cookie. I would give him the chance to stand and finish his cookie before we moved off. After a while, I would sometimes give a cookie, and then another, and then another…teaching him that standing about was a relaxing and fun, rewarding period of time.

Fast forward to hunting…I would give him cookies at every check. In the beginning, he was so nervous, he would reach back to take the cookie, but would spit it out or wouldn’t take it. As the season progressed, he started taking the cookies and eating them. That was last season. This year, I am still carrying cookies, but he only gets 3-5 through the whole 3-4 hours of hunting. We had a close to 40 minute check at a joint meet a few weeks ago. Fox, hounds, huntsman and staff went on some property that the field couldn’t go, so we had to wait…and wait…and wait til the fox was put to ground and hounds were collected to draw in open territory. It certainly helped that we had been on one hell of a run prior to the long check and I think all were happy to just stand.

It takes more than one season to “make” a field hunter, and sometimes it can be 3 or more seasons to work out all of the kinks. I encourage you to continue to hunt and to reflect on ALL of the positive things your horse is doing. Practice checks at home and when you have one in the field try passing some zen energy to your horse, and forgive his minor transgression of being fidgety at checks.

Happy Hunting!!

Thank you jawa!

You have touched on a few of the things we’re working on.

Saddle fit is not ideal. He’s definitely one to let me know when he’s not happy about saddle fit and not standing isn’t usually how he expresses his displeasure - that would be tail wringing & bucking :wink:

I’d give the achy muscle/lack of fitness idea more credit if the reluctance to stand came later in the hunt, but it starts right away.

We are now practicing checks on trail rides. I think we made it 5 minutes at one stop yesterday. I know it’s not the same as being out with hounds and a larger group of horses, but it’s a start.

Just to be clear, I’m not talking about occasional head tossing. He’ll work himself into a sweat while we’re checked… I’ll bring treats, try to be patient, and remind myself how good he is the rest of the time!

Try to catch him being good, even if it is only 30 secs!

Also important is to give him slack in the rein as a cue to chill. If it is safe to do, try the following. When coming down from a canter or trot to a walk, give him slack. Let him have enough slack even if it means he might want to pick up a trot. The goal is to teach him that a slack rein means relaxation. The ultimate goal would be to have him stand at a check on the buckle. He will mess up many times, but he will learn from his mistakes if you give him the chance. If he moves off, circle him in a tightish circle until he stops. If possible, use just one rein and with the lightest contact that will produce a circle. You want him to stop of his own accord. Once he stops, give him slack. Rinse and repeat.

Does he have a hunting buddy? This can help them learn and relax.

Does it make any difference if he is in the front, middle or back of the field?

Hopefully you will find something that will help him to understand what he needs to do.

I’ll try to be more consistent with the slack rein (tried it a couple times on Wednesday). He’s got his own engine, but he’s generally happy to go around with his nose poking out and I can usually hack him on the buckle.

Having a buddy doesn’t help and his place in the field doesn’t matter - other than being in a place where he can see action.

I’m feeling a little better about his prospects. A couple other members have shared their stories and one has a greenie who is doing the same thing. I was also told the hunts we’ve attended have been pretty slow :wink:

This isn’t an unusual behavior for a horse new to hunting and he make work out of it. One of our members has a horse who will not stand- he does not fret but he will not stand. She just does small circles with him or lets him wander on the fringe of the group. This is only a problem when we are on leaf covered trail and the noise might make it hard for the Field Master to hear the Huntsman. Still, she is a sharp gal and keeps him in the right spot.

Other ideas are to do sidepasses, turn on the forehand and turn on the haunches to engage his mind back towards you. Keep the ques soft, soft, soft. I learned a training exercise with 3 speeds at the walk and I use the two low gear walking speeds if I need to get my mare mind back on paying attention to me. It takes minimal space and I can get a lot done.

I strongly agree with the sitting deep like a “sack of potatoes” and dropping the reins as a signal to relax. It’s something to practice every ride, regardless of where you are. They really do learn the cue. And (purists, avert your eyes) I’ll let them graze a little during long checks, especially if it’s a more nervous or restless horse. Some also respond well to neck rubs. Then, if they get figity, the slack-rein nose-tip to walk a circle, then ask them to stand again.

It takes time and repetition, but is really easy to practice anywhere.

Hell, I would gladly have let him graze!! :wink: I even pointed him at some yummy stuff (when there was yummy stuff to be had)…

We’re going to be practicing just standing while mounted. I realized it’s not something we ever really did before - other than to lineup at shows. He’s an easy going guy and it never occurred to me that I was skipping such an important part of his education! I have one that I would park in the ring to just watch my girls ride, but this guy was always doing something.

Have had & observed a number of these…just keep at it, all will work out!

I ride a reiner in the summer who becomes my field hunter (first flight) in the winter. My grand daughter is a WP rider, although my three daughters were always h/j and event riders. One of the biggest differences I noticed between the disciplines is the amount of ground work the western showing kids do, compared to the English riding kids (and I don’t want to paint with a broad stroke, but it seems that Western riders expect better ground manners --in general). And you are probably wondering why I’m point this out --western horses (all that I’ve owned and that’s three total) are TRAINED to stand quietly. We start on the ground, in hand. The horses are taught to stand quietly in hand --and a lot of other both useful and useless things, in hand --before they are ridden. If you look at our hunt, the people riding “formerly western” horses are all standing quietly on loose reins --while the English riders are dealing with fidgety horses --in general --again, not pointing fingers --but that’s what it looks like in our hunt. I think the answer to your fidgety horse lies in training him to stand quietly. Maybe some horses “just stand quietly” naturally, but considering the amount of training we do to teach them not to move in a show ring unless cued, makes me think it’s as much training as walk-trot-canter on cue. Maybe more, since horses naturally walk trot and canter, but don’t naturally stand quietly with their hooves aligned frozen in place for 15 min to 1/2 hour. Yet our western show horse will do that --and he puts his ears forward on cue too. You really can train a horse to do about anything with enough time and patience (mine kneels so I can mount --that took 3 years and he’s not perfect, but close). So start with a goal --horse will stand still for one minute --and work toward it. Maybe one minute is too long, 15 seconds? –

You can train the stand in a round pen or with a lunge line, in hand, or if you want to do it mounted, you can. I’m a firm believer in horses choose the path of least resistance. We start with a lunge line (because I don’t have round pen) but it’s a short one, 16-17 feet. That length makes it a little more work for the horse because he’s in a small circle. The horse WANTS to trot out for awhile, and I let them, then when I see the slightest fatigue (slowing, blowing, sweat), I ask for a whoa. The horse stops. He can stay stopped for as long as his feet don’t move. Move one tiny bit, and you are off on more circles, and reverse circles, and more circles and circle in, circle out --and I ask for a Whoa. As long as horse stops and doesn’t move, he can stand still. Move one tiny bit, back to work. You won’t see much improvement the first, second or third day --(I generally do this for 30-45 min -only at the trot), but by day four, they catch on and start stopping and staying planted. In the saddle, you can do the same thing. Just trot and trot until horse is tired, and ask for a whoa. One little movement, reverse and trot some more. Again, 30-45 min is about what you should do. After six or seven consecutive days at this, you really should have a good whoa with no foot movement. At that point, I’d start lengthening the amount of time, or bringing a second, third horse in to the ring to train the whoa in a group setting. Anyway, I’m not a trainer, but this worked for me with three horses, one of whom is an OTTB.

Foxglove

Interesting Foxglove! I know what you mean, and I’ve seen it too. I’ve just never needed that kind of standing around before :wink:

My guy generally stands well when I’m on the ground. I’m not sure about finding his bottom trying to tire him. He really wants to move off and I think he’d go until he dropped - literally - if that was ‘punishment’ for not standing.
I loathe round pen work, but perhaps small circles while mounted (even the almost single-rein variety) would be useful. I may practice at home with those hateful tight circles when he wants to move rather than the easy circles I was doing while hunting.

I started my rather hot mare hunting last season. I always had a pocketful of peppermints (her favorite treat) with me for rewarding good behavior. She learned quickly that standing quietly earns a treat, and she is much quieter this season. When in doubt, use bribery!

Yes!

I was astounded at my first lesson barn as an adult that the lesson horses weren’t taught to ground tie and were not expected to stand quietly. When I asked what happens when I fall off? the instructor looked blank and said that the horse is easily caught.

But I guess I rode a lot of trail classes as a kid in which ground tying and/or quiet standing were required.

That said, to BeastieSlave with the excellent advise from posts above, you might consider working on ground tying, too, using the same vocal cues for stop and stand as you do when riding. Take the reins and hang them down into a bucket or tire. That gives the horse the idea he’s actually being tied, anchoring him. Then you work so that you can walk around him, touching him, with no movement. Then you a step away, and then another step, until you are, well, walking away from him across the arena and he’s standing patiently waiting for your return. And eventually you won’t use the bucket or the tire.

Then with a ground person, you can be in the saddle, with the reins over his head into a bucket or tire, and have the ground person do the same walking around, but with the whoa and stand coming from you in the saddle. You can add seat aids too, being a sack of potatoes, during this portion. This works best if there are other riders in the arena, or other distracting activity.

Anyway, just an idea if you’d like.

I had an ottb that was great standing in line at shows, stood while waiting for gates etc on trail rides, but I rode him in about 10 endurance rides and he would walk on the buckle but would not stand. Possibly could have gotten better but I didn’t pursue that type of riding.

Some horses have a hard time “getting their blood back down”. That is a quote from one of the ride vets.

I’ve often wondered about just how one goes about teaching a horse to ground tie. That sounds like another useful skill for my guy to learn!

Stand him where you want him. Stand at his head and tell him he’s lovely. If he steps away, say “No” and put him back where you want him. Tell him he’s lovely.

Slowly move away from standing at his head - walk around him, try to groom, etc. If he moves, put him back. Make sure you keep up the compliments as long as he does what you want. I found teaching ground tying to be VERY hard with treats as my horse just wanted to follow me around for the treats, which is why I resorted to just telling him how perfect he was being.

My OTTB wouldn’t stand at checks at all when I started hunting. Three things helped:

  • Treats. I started rewarding him for standing still out on trail rides, then started giving him treats at checks (I used alfalfa cubes)
  • Lateral work. If he needed to move, he moved sideways.
  • A couple of really long hunts. Finally the penny dropped and he realized he needed to conserve energy at checks. Now, he’ll doze on a long rein right up until the hounds are about to be cast . . . then he’s fully on and ready to rumble.

Definitely had one that started out not standing, and worse, decided to fly backwards when asked to stand. He got used to the program quickly enough as it became routine and the hunts were hard enough that he appreciated the break.

Small update - practice is going well.
We’ve been standing for periods when we hack out on the trail and I’ve also been making him stand in the ring while we watch others go ( about 15+ minutes today). He was antsy at first and I resorted to tight circles when he wanted to move. At this point he pretty much stands on the buckle… but we haven’t been out hunting for the real test! Hopefully that will come next weekend and he’ll pass.

Another update: We have continued to ‘practice’ - stopping on trail rides alone and with others. More recently, we have been riding out on hound exercises and things have been going very well.

Yesterday was our first real test as the huntsman and masters decided the hounds were ready to hunt! There was enough of a crowd to have two flights and we decided to join the small first flight - knowing we could drop back if necessary. It wasn’t. My boy was fabulous!! I could not have asked for more from him. He walked calmly on the buckle, pulled up easily from the gallop, and best of all, stood calmly at every check. I even had occasion to dismount and he was perfect when I remounted from the ground (a bonus!).

Thanks everyone for the support and helpful tips. I know it’s still very early, but I’m happy and encouraged and looking forward to a great season :smiley: