Just because I am bored and browsing horse ads I can’t afford :lol: how small is too small for you as a jumper prospect? There seems to be deals to be had on some of these warmbloods that fall under the 16 hand mark. So many ISO ads out there that state nothing under 16 hands. Now of course if the rider is tall I get it, but is there any real reason not to consider a smaller prospect, if their length of stride is on par with the bigger horses? One particular mare that caught my eye stood 15.2 as a rising 4yr old. Is it true they can’t be registered with KWPN if they don’t hit 16 hands? I know there have been some very successful horses that have been on the smaller side but it’s definitely not the norm and prices seem to follow on these prospects. Just interested in people’s thoughts, maybe once I’m out of quarantine I’ll go pick up a midget jumper prospect for a steal 
I think some people believe that bigger is better, but I’ve always thought you should get the smallest horse you can that can do the job you want. It is my opinion that smaller is better in terms of soundness but that doesn’t mean every 17.3h horse you see is unsound. With smaller horses, they may have a shorter stride, so sometimes are just not as competitive as the massive, leggy horse that has taken over the sporthorse world today… because the tracks tend to favor horses (not always) with big, efficient strides. Small horses can make up for it in terms of maneuverability; much easier to pilot a 15h horse through a tight rollback than a 17.3h one!
That being said… the soundest, most athletic horse I ever had was a 15.2h TB who was so allergic to timber he never pulled a pole in SJ at competitions in his life… Granted, he was an eventer, but I always knew we would move up at least one or two placings after SJ because he was fast AND careful.
Height is just one factor and not always predictive of the horse’s talent, stride, or competitive ability. It has never stopped me from looking at a horse, as long as they could carry me fairly and soundly.
I agree with @beowulf, there are many different factors to weigh when getting a jumper. I think that for a lot of the more novice Jumper riders, a larger horse won’t need to make as big of an effort and therefor will be easier for the rider to jump over bigger obstacles. A smaller horse will need a lot more power and back cracking to make it happen, which could unseat some people.
You also might need to be more accurate on a smaller horse for that reason - they won’t have the simple leg height advantage to get themselves out of a tricky spot.
I think for a more advanced level of rider, size doesn’t matter. I remember that Chris Kappler had this teeny little mare who he competed in the speed classes where it looked like his legs were going to drag the ground - and they nearly always won. She was SO catty and careful! But I don’t think a lesser rider would have been as successful over the bigger tracks with her as he was.
It’s not the fence height, it’s width and the way the distances are set and time allowed. Everybody thinks their under 16h horse is The One that has the step. Most don’t. Their skeletal structure doesn’t allow it. Of course there are exceptions but those need a good program and precise ride.
That said, at lower levels you don’t need that much step. Despite claiming they are buying to eventually step up to the 1.2m+ most never will, despite what their trainer is telling them.
Actually needing the big horse is just marketing directed at most buyers.
Speaking of which, just because it’s advertised as 16h+ doesn’t mean it is. It’s one of the two most misrepresented sale claims ( age is the other). Often because they really don’t know and are guessing. Easy way to estimate horse’s actual height is knowing tge height if the person standing next to it or riding it,
A hand equals 4” and horse height is measured at the top of the withers. I am 5’4” which is 16h at the top of the head. so if I stand at the withers of a 16h horse and can see over the top of them? It’s not. Somebody shown in vid or still shot standing next to or riding a sale horse who is taller then that wither point or whose legs are well below the barrel is either over 6’ or that horse is not as tall as they think anyway, regardless of saying it’s 17h in the ad.
I believe the minimum height for stallion approval and for the ster predicate for KWPN is 160cm, which is about 15.3. Studbook minimum is a bit less than that, I think, maybe 158cm?
Small size would not deter me from a jumper prospect if it had the scope and the canter I liked. My hopefully soon to be new mare is only about 16 hands, I believe, and I’ve ridden some super horses that were in the 15.2/15.3 range as well. There are also many examples of small horses at the top of the sport.
However, as mentioned above, height is just one factor and there is a lot more to consider. For me, for instance, I’m just shy of 6’ and large busted, so while I don’t mind (and in many ways prefer) a smaller horse, I prefer them to be more uphill in their build and balance. If they are very small, short necked, and downhill I don’t think they suit my conformation or preferred ride particularly well. But if something small and uphill with a big canter and plenty of jump I wouldn’t be at all bothered by their size. You might find in the jump offs that you won’t be making up time by leaving out strides (although I’ve had small horses with huge steps that could, and big horses with less huge steps that could not) but a small sporty horse can make up time in plenty of other ways.
An excellent current example is Catoki with McLain, who I believe is only about 15.1. Not sure how tall McLain is exactly, I think he is a few inches shorter than me but he has quite a tall upper body. https://jumpernation.com/watch-mclai…s-ever-ridden/
A smaller horse wouldn’t bother me as long as it had the step to make it through the related distances, and was built solidly enough. There have been many smaller horses competing at the top levels over the years. They probably aren’t the norm, but they’re out there. And for your junior or adult rider who doesn’t go about 1.20ish, there’s many more. I can think of lots of wonderful 15.0 - 15.3 hand jumpers I’ve known over the years without too much effort. I’d just judge any prospect on its merits.
Honestly I might hesitate more at the very large horse as a prospect. Many are out there doing well, but I know too many that just don’t seem to stay sound.
My ideal jumper is 15.3, big strided, and hot. I’ve ridden plenty that can still leave a stride out in the jump off. IME being big is more of an issue than being small. Big horses make time in the first round easily enough but it’s hard to be fast in the jump off if you’re constantly slowing down to get through the combinations and you don’t have the maneuverability to make up for it in the turns.
@findeight you’re telling me my 15.2hh downhill TB won’t get me around a 1.20? 😂 jokes aside I’d be happy if he got me around 2’6 at this point.
I remember a client horse that was a solid 15.1 and downhill, owner bought it at WEF under the “this is totally a 1.20+ horse” owner was barely jumping around the 3ft classes. I had a wonderful lesson on that thing trying to get it down the 3’6 lines. Horse quickly got a new home and owner eventually got up to the 1.20 level.
I don’t mind a smaller horse, just needs to be on the hot side and I need a longer neck to offset my upper body. My ‘real deal’ ‘1.40’ horse went lame after like two seasons. Ended up having some weird bone issues. He was a solid 17hh. I stopped riding after that for a long time.
Good thing no one told Stroller or Touch of Class smaller horses will have skeletal limitations!
Marion Coaker’s Stroller was 14.1
I think it depends on what level you’re trying to achieve. If you’re doing little stuff, it makes no difference. Remember small junior hunters are all 16.0 and under, and jumping around 3’6" on a 12.5’ stride. But if you want to move up from there, it might be tough. Less room for rider error.
I have a hunter that’s 15.3 and a jumper who’s 17.1. I can bury the big guy to a combination and still get out alright. The little guy? No way.
Yes I’ve seen many fei showjumpers in the 15.2-16 hand range. Still most are in the 16.1-3 range. With again outliers in the 17+ range. I think people overestimate the popularity of extremely tall horses at the top of the sport, they aren’t that in demand like they might have been “back in the day”, because they are often too big to maneuver comfortably on short tight courses. You’ll see more of the biggies being used in six bar classes.
Touch of Class was 16h according to one of the partners who owned her. Who also posts on here in addition to meeting them personally. And that Gold Medal was 30 years ago. Stroller was way farther back then that. And I DID say there were exceptions and those were in good programs expertly ridden.
Also pointed out most of today’s average buyers do not need big horses for the courses they do.
I agree with the comments about getting the smallest horse you can to do the job in terms of soundness. We’ve always found our smaller (well built) horses tend to be really hardly and sound. My trainer has a 15.2-3 warmblood mare she just moved up to the 1.25 with who should at least get to the 1.30 if not the 1.35. We’ve seen plenty of smaller horses motor around some big tracks, it just depends on the horse. I had a hony that was right around 14.2/14.3 for awhile that I was nearly unbeatable with at the 3’ level. He had the scope for higher but none of the brain nor work ethic for it and eventually we found him a job more suited to what he was missing between his ears. He made the step in the in an outs but could bounce up add and turn way faster than anyone else and was one the of most physically (just not mentally) sound horses I’ve ever met.
I agree with comments about less room for error on a smaller horse unless they’re super quick with their feet. A zippy small one is usually pretty good at adding in a step if they need to. Having one that is scopey enough to intentionally add in a line in order to land and do a tighter turn can be an advantage and can work in the bending lines even over the bigger tracks. We also spend a lot of time showing indoors at WEC and find the smaller horses have a bit of an easier time navigating their way indoors, especially with how technical the tracks have become. It’s a big ring but it still rides like an indoor in many ways if that makes sense.
Oh yeah. Most ammies want the biggest horse they can find. Sorry, I was speaking of fei show jumping.
The pro breeders I know breed the best to the best to get that middle height, the more ammie centered breeders I know breed elephants.
My mare was under 16 hands. Made the jumps look big but stride length was never an issue. One of the people I used to show with regularly always said she was like a whippet compared to the bigger horses - little and FAST.
And you were a very good rider with access to very good trainers.
Findeight, all I said was it was a good thing no one told them…did you misplace your sense of humor today??? My late amateur owner mare was a 1/2 sister to Touch of Class and looked just like her. Joe Fargis signed my poster of him and Touch of Class (yes, I am a groupy) - he never knew there was a 1/2 sister lurking out there. And yes, I am aware of the poster who is related to Touch of Class. We communicated some time ago.
I love SuperShorty’s mare. I don’t think SS knows, but we are family. My lovely TB gelding is related to her fantastic mare.
Really??
