Anyone breeding sport horses bred for jumping/dressage/eventing in the 15h range? Seems like most people want 16h+ horses. I’ve always felt the most comfortable on the 15 hand range. I want something a bit smaller, catty, and without all the extra weight and height to further wear and tear on joints. I will breed for myself first and foremost but is it a lost cause trying to sell horses in this heigh range that I don’t decide to keep? They would have good conformation, breeding, and talent. I’m not currently breeding. This is future planning and pondering.
Ah, the dreaded hony! Seriously, though, I breed large holsteiners normally. I thought I’d breed a GRP for my son to grow into. So I did and the now 2 yo will not be suitable for him because I think she’s just too much horse (he will likely never be more than a casual rider). So now I am putting her on the market - cheap. I don’t know yet whether she will be a lovely 15H GRP (they seem to be a little flexible on size) or a bonafide large pony. But, to be honest and safe, I am marketing her as a 15H prospect. No nibbles, no queries, no nothing - even among adult dressage riders who might want an athletic smaller horse. So, maybe if you have connections in that world, there is a market. But in my exceedingly small sample size of one, I haven’t seen it. And the prices I’ve seen listed have been low as well.
I have a 15.1 sport horse who I love. Built well, smart, athletic, and talented. And I got her for a steal of a deal because no one wants a hony. (She was also “older” and barely started under saddle, so there’s that, but still.)
I think you CAN move them if they don’t work out for you, but it will take time and probably be for 1/4 of the price you think they’re worth.
In the past year my rider has had two mares under 16h, both were incredible and sold for six figures to australia and the us.
you can definitely find horses in this size and they’re awesome. In Europe they aren’t cheaper but in the US they probably would be without a show record.
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I am VERY surprised a GRP isn’t moving like a hotcake! Not that I know THAT much about them, but have always coveted those who own them. I prefer sport horses on the smaller size (say, 15.0-15.3 range) so long as the barrel takes up my leg. I’ll never quite get the appeal of a tiny rider on a huge horse unless it’s for step. I’d personally rather ride a sporty little thing. Touch of Class, anyone? Just to name one small-ish amazing ride…
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It is my understanding that a small horse that is suitable for a somewhat timid rider is relatively easy to sell.
A small horse that requires a more confident and competent rider is much harder to sell. The small (or not) riders who are confident and competent enough are usually looking for a bigger horse…
Personally LIKE the small hot ones. But when I buy one, it is with the understanding that is will NOT be easy to sell.
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We breed Connemaras and Crosses for Dressage and Eventing-many are are in that size range. They make great amateur horses–easy to ride and train, hearty, athletic and fun.
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We have never had a hard time selling the smaller horses. But, they have been very good minded, pretty and talented.
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At dressage shows in our broad area I see lots of people on smaller horses. That said, the majority are typically 2nd level and below. An assortment of breeds. Am seeing a few at the upper levels, mostly PRE, Lusitano and a Lippizan or two… Mine is 15’3" and plenty of horse in every way.
Further assessment: if the market older adults (Me and several others I know) or younger riders just getting into showing, they want grown/broke horses rather than really young stock.
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What about the market for a well started well bred 15.2 ish registered and approved sporthorse? RPSI or GRP? Something that is about 6, solid at first level dressage and schooling second… And has possibly evented up to novice - what’s the market like for that sort of prospect?
Probably a pretty similar idea to a Connemara x TB, but perhaps with slightly fancier movement, and an earlier focus on dressage in order to appeal to rider’s who may want to pursue more dressage and less eventing at some point, or for rider’s who want to be very competitive in the dressage phase at the lower levels.
I guess I am envisioning a “Hony” that is a nice GRP x Warmblood cross… But jumps. Not necessarily an upper level eventing prospect, but not a pure dressage prospect either. I am curious if there is a market for a prospect like that at 6 after getting some miles on it…
Just curious as to what others think.
Many adult ammys are simply looking for temperament and rideability, comfortable gaits in a manageable size. They often are looking for something with more versatility and fun.
It’s been my experience (I have two sport ponies, one of unknown breeding and one that I have owned since 6wks old) that there would be a market for such a horse assuming 1. it had enough stride that it was not running its little pony legs off on XC and 2. the temperament is A+. I bought my filly with the expectation that she will primarily be a dressage horse like her three full siblings but that she’ll be willing and able to jump, too.
It’s extremely difficult to sell a small horse who is a pro ride. With that in mind I’d choose carefully if breeding for one. I know of one in particular that is from a well known, well behaved stallion but mom is a Riverman offspring and baby is now 10 and still super difficult to deal with - exactly what I would have expected knowing his damline.
Similarly, you want to make exceptionally sure that you’re breeding for the right size, as something that is GRP but ends up over 16h is no dice and same in the other direction. I see a lot of nicely bred GRPs that I won’t consider because they are 13.2 or 13.3 which is too small for me.
It’s also been my experience at least in dressage circles that RPSI is seen as a “lesser” registry.
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^ Thanks Soloud… that’s the sort of feedback I was hoping to get.
I hear what you are saying about RPSI when looking at it as a comparison to GOV or AHS for a dressage prospect. However… do you think that “lesser” perception holds true for buyers looking for an amateur friendly eventing prospect? Also… do you think that the “lesser” perception applies to the Pony Books of the different registries as well?
I think registries aren’t as important to eventers, generally speaking. And I think the pony books are kind of an unknown quantity at this time because the idea of a “sport pony” in a major registry is still kind of new in the US. I’d buy one in a heartbeat.
However with the trend towards OTTBs being the “must have” right now at the lower levels I think you’re going to see some price depression UNLESS this hypothetical is also kid/teenager safe. That makes or breaks the market for the smaller ones I think - there are adults like me who want something 14-15h, but if it’s something that can be ridden by a (competent) kid that adds some serious value.
It’s more a question of what you’re hoping to get. As an “all around” type of horse you’re already looking at some price depression and then a little more because eventing is just not as expensive as the upper levels.
That said I’d spend $$$ to buy a “hony” with the scope for training and the temperament to live at home with me and not need to be in a full program. I’ve looked at many connemaras and haven’t really been loving the gaits or the jump I’ve been seeing so it’s pushing me more towards wb influence. The pony I ended up buying is actually 1/2 welsh (dad was actually a small, 12.2) but from a mare with good Holsteiner lines on top and decent tb lines bottom.
There’s a lot of emphasis on sport ponies for dressage - I think less so in the jumping disciplines. Did you have a stallion in mind?
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I wouldnt discount the connemaras–the good ones are hard to find and even harder to buy. Most dont make it to th open market. I dont really think you can do a lot better than Connemara x for eventing. Our young stallion qualified for and competed in the West Coast FEH Championships-he scored 8s across the board for gait quality including the canter. The judges both felt strongly that he could easily breed an upper level prospect given more size and blood coming from the mare. And that is what we are doing–crossing him on TB and WB mares with blood. His first offspring will start showing this season it will be interesting to see what they say. That being said we have bred both Conn x WB and WB X Con. I have my Ardceltic Art Daughter in Foal to the KWPN Stallion Connaseur ( both because I liked his type and pedigree). Probably our most successful cross todate was a Connemara x Hanoverian that evented up to prelim. He was 2x HOTY in eventing and once in dressage. He never met a dressage judge that didnt like him 
I don’t know if it’s mare quality or what, but a lot of the connemaras I saw from reputable breeders that were purebred were what I would consider too short/choppy strided and many jumped over their shoulder with no scope behind. Some were imports not bred here. A lot were also small - just 14h or thereabouts - not what I was expecting. I’m not saying any of that is true of your stallion - just that what I was seeing on the market was not impressive. I agree that they may be hard to find, but that doesn’t really help the end buyer who is looking for a nicely bred performance pony.
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Totally agree - a small horse has to have a good brain. I’ve bred a few -and lucky for me, they’ve mostly been super easy, super ammie horses. No pro wants a small horse, sadly. Personally, I like a hony - 14.2 to 15.2 is my preferred range of size. AND I like a horse that is a bit on the hot side, and has “personality”. But I am a very limited market:lol:
Someone I know is trying to sell a super talented 15.3 (barely) mare, and she is difficult and really a ride for someone who knows what they are doing. And she’s been on the market forever.
I also have a big pony (14.2) and he’s a ride for an experienced, confident rider - which is how I ended up with him. Most adults who are looking for large ponies and small horses want - safe, sane, easy to ride.
In general, the hony market is fairly limited - I do think the prices are a bit lower then they are for a 16+ hand horse. But if the horse has a show record, is easy to ride, going at least 1st/2nd level - I think there is a good market for those horses.
BTW, RPSI and a few of the other smaller WB registries have “merged” into Deutsches Sportpferd (German Sport Horse, or German Warmblood), so they are kind of rebranding themselves. I’ve known a few really nice RPSI horses, very high quality. The registry just isn’t as large or well known as Oldenburg, Hanoverian, Dutch WB, etc. I’ve always found it ironic that people think RPSI is a “lesser” registry, but Old NA is not.
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i agree with you that many are short and choppy strided and also smaller-but they are not typically smaller than GRPs. But they are also not all created equal. The mother of my stallion is an ACPS Premium mare and she is also Main Mare Book with the GOV/WE, She made Special Premium with the Weser Ems ponies. She actually out jumped ALL the horse mares at her Performance Test (8.7-was the highest score achieved at that test by any mare) and she stands 14.1h. She has a daughter that was exported to France where she competes in their Pony Grand Prix (4.3ft). Her other daughter by Art is just shy of 15.2H–she is not little :). I personally have no riding age prospects for sale because everything we have bred has sold in utero. I have people asking already for next seasons foals.
My pony is RPSI (well, that technically makes her GRP under the reorg, I believe) but I think this has actually led to more confusion about what the hell your pony actually is! Her passport actually says she is PRPS since the papers come from the parent registry in Germany. Most people don’t know what her brand means (double acorn leaf). So depending on who you ask she is as many as four different breeds!
I’m not sure the merger really did anything to clarify breed standing.
Like any breed, there are some that are better movers than others. I don’t know what connemaras/breeders you have been looking at, but please know there are a lot that are out there that can hold their own against the big guys
