SmartPak's bad math: "25% off" isn't! Minor update, p. 5

[mvp]

Another mini-update:

The third VM left worked and I got a call back.

The SP person in Customer Relations (not Marketing, that’s a different department) is going to work on some stuff for me/us:

1. For you guys-- she’s going to check with the Other Powers That Be in order to get an ETA for any refunds you guys are owed.

2. I asked her to get a history of all my orders together so that together we could see if this problem has occurred in past sales (as I think it has), and we can figure out an amount owed. IMO, everyone should be entitled to this. I’m not yet sure how they want to handle it. But I think you would be within your rights to ask. I’ll let you know how that goes for me.

3. I asked her to look into the origin of the software problem… I mean in time. I’d like to know how far back this issue goes. To me, that’s part of making sure people who overpaid-- at any time they did-- get their refund.

Those are some time-consuming assignments, so stay tuned. I’ll do my best to let you guys know when you can expect refunds, unless SP wishes to do that.

[GPSM]

SO! Is anyone else having a problem with the math for the 50% off Sunshield shirts? No matter how I do the math, it’s not adding up to 50% off, and the amount it is showing due is higher than I calculate.

Of course, their chat is offline, and I’m at work so can’t really call.

[lachelle]

Hmm… GPSM you are right. I am also trying to do the math.

Can anyone make sense of this math? I bought two shirts.

Original prices are 59.95, and 64.95, which brings the order total to $124.90.
BUT I have SmartPerks, which gives me 10% off, which brings the total to $112.41.
Discount is $52.92
The final amount I paid is $59.49

I can’t seem to make myself understand the math?? Either way its a killer deal but I at least want to understand their math.

[reefy]

Not exactly the same thing but somewhat related.

My account has 2 email addresses, one is work email, the other non-work email.

The email to my work account often has a better discount in it than my non-work email. This morning, the work one has a 50% off Sunshield shirts. Non-work is 40% discount off the same.

I guess that gives me options :lol:

[GPSM]

[QUOTE=reefy!;8027863]
Not exactly the same thing but somewhat related.

My account has 2 email addresses, one is work email, the other non-work email.

The email to my work account often has a better discount in it than my non-work email. This morning, the work one has a 50% off Sunshield shirts. Non-work is 40% discount off the same.

I guess that gives me options :lol:[/QUOTE]

So here’s the thing: the email I received (I only get one) said 50%… but clicking through that link and adding the code is only giving me 40% (I finally figured out that’s the discount it is giving me). I have SmartPerks, so that doesn’t seem to be the issue (the email says the PERKS code must also be applied…)

[lachelle]

[QUOTE=GPSM;8027900]
So here’s the thing: the email I received (I only get one) said 50%… but clicking through that link and adding the code is only giving me 40% (I finally figured out that’s the discount it is giving me). I have SmartPerks, so that doesn’t seem to be the issue (the email says the PERKS code must also be applied…)[/QUOTE]

OH so maybe its 40% if you DON’T have perks, but with the 10% PERKS code, comes out to 50%? So if thats the case, the original price on my cart being 124.90, but I only paid $59.49…I actually got a $65.41 discount, which comes out to 52.37%

So it works in my favor?

[murphyluv]

I work in corporate retail management at the store level, so this caught my eye. It seems SP’S advertising department is not communicating with their POS department. They can stack the discounts any way they want but they can’t have false advertising. The kohls coupon was a good example, the coupon clearly states how discounts are applied.
mistakes happen, in every store, but its how they’re caught ans how they’re handled. A little disappointed in how SP is handling this so far…

[murphyluv]

Yep sometimes mistakes work in your favor…

[GPSM]

[QUOTE=lachelle;8027917]
OH so maybe its 40% if you DON’T have perks, but with the 10% PERKS code, comes out to 50%? So if thats the case, the original price on my cart being 124.90, but I only paid $59.49…I actually got a $65.41 discount, which comes out to 52.37%

So it works in my favor?[/QUOTE]

Could be. I’m still not sure why mine still only comes up to 40%. I decided to just can the whole thing. Not amused.

[Donnie_Steele]

Math is hard for computers

Hi friends – Donnie Steele from SmartPak to help clear the air! As an infrequent poster and occasional lurker, I tripped over this thread and wanted to help explain what’s happening with our promos and why the math is wonky. The short answer is that you guys are absolutely right – the calculations are off! The basic gist is that our promo system doesn’t think like a rational person.

To articulate the issue with some nice round numbers, any reasonable person would assume a 15% discount and 5% discount on a $100 product would stack to produce a 20% discount. However, our promo system has to evaluate each promo code individually, which creates unexpected results. To our system, that same example would produce the following:

How our silly promo system thinks it should work
[table=“width: 300”]
[tr]
[td]Retail Price:[/td]
[td]$100.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]- 15% (of $100.00):[/td]
[td]$85.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]- 5% (of $85.00):[/td]
[td]$80.75[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Net discount: 19.25%

We at SmartPak obviously agree with everyone on this board that the discounts ought to stack to produce a 20% discount. To accomplish this, we increase the USEF/AQHA or SmartPerks discount by one percentage point to give us a +20% discount.

How we FIX it
[table=“width: 300”]
[tr]
[td]Retail Price:[/td]
[td]$100.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]- 15% (of $100.00):[/td]
[td]$85.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]- 6% (of $85.00):[/td]
[td] $79.90[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Net discount: 20.10%

So, what ends up happening is that we purposefully over-discount to avoid the disappointment of under-discounting because a computer doesn’t think like a person. HOWEVER, we made a human mistake on this last promotion and forgot to up the Perks promotion by a percentage point, which is why we were off by .75¢ per $100. I can assure you this wasn’t a diabolical “Office Space” scheme to skim pennies (really goes against our motto of “Healthy Horses, Happy Riders”). One of our awesome SmartPakers simply made a very human mistake and we’re adjusting our SOPs to ensure we’re ALWAYS at or north of any advertised discount.

On behalf of the friendly SmartPak crew, I’m genuinely sorry we screwed this up. As always, we’re working to make it right and trying to prove why we are here – to serve you and your horse!

Thank you!

Donnie Steele
dsteele@smartpak.com

[IFG]

Donnie,

Was wondering why we hadn’t heard from you. You are generally super responsive. Been out shoveling or something?

[Donnie_Steele]

IFG… It’s like you have a sixth sense for knowing that we’ve done a LOT of shoveling around SmartPak land or something. I like to think of myself as a SmartPaker and professional snow removal expert these days

In full disclosure, I’ve admittedly been traveling which isn’t particularly helpful for getting my daily dose of COTH! I’m genuinely sorry for the slow response – my intent is always to pipe up as soon as I hear something and it’s appropriate for me to chime in on behalf of SmartPak. This board has always been so good to us – the least I can do is to be responsive!

[IPEsq]

I just got the following email from SP:

Thanks for shopping with us during our SPLOVE20 SmartPak brand tack and apparel sale last week! Due to a data entry error for this sale, you didn’t get your full USEF member discount, and your order was overcharged by a few cents. As soon as we discovered the error, we set about making it right. We’ve applied a credit of $1.00 to your SmartPak account, and that credit will automatically apply to your next order.

But, as I’m shopping today’s free embroidery sale, I see only a credit of 36 cents showing up in my cart in addition to the embroidery discount…

[IPEsq]

Heh…good thing I waited before checking out. My credit just got bumped to $1.00. Full disclosure, because what I ordered in the prior sale got to ship free with my Smartpaks, I didn’t order anything expensive, so they probably did only owe me 36 cents.

[DancingArabian]

Are things being advertised as 25% off, or are you just taking the 20% off and adding your existing 5% off and assuming that’s how they should be doing it? Their website says it’s 25% off the purchase price. If something is marked down 20%, then the new reduced price is your purchase price which you should be getting the 5% off of.

It’s not 25% off, it’s a sale item that’s marked down then your USEF membership gets you another little markdown on that price.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Donnie Steele;8028808]
IFG… It’s like you have a sixth sense for knowing that we’ve done a LOT of shoveling around SmartPak land or something. I like to think of myself as a SmartPaker and professional snow removal expert these days

In full disclosure, I’ve admittedly been traveling which isn’t particularly helpful for getting my daily dose of COTH! I’m genuinely sorry for the slow response – my intent is always to pipe up as soon as I hear something and it’s appropriate for me to chime in on behalf of SmartPak. This board has always been so good to us – the least I can do is to be responsive![/QUOTE]

Oops! Now my turn to apologize for taking a long time to get back to this thread. I’m on the West Coast, so no snow excuse.

One question for you, Donnie:

I got my panties in a wad about this way back when I started this thread, you brought that right to SP on the same date. Then a very nice head of Customer Service started e-mailing with me. (I’ll name names if you like.)

That said, my question is this: Why are you discovering this problem by reading COTH? No one in-house gave you the Heads Up?

I don’t get it. I’m no criticizing but rather asking because this whole thing blowing up in public seems a bad way to go about things.

[seabreeze]

I just want to chime in and say that I appreciate SmartPak’s efforts to respond to people, even via social media. That is very attentive, in my opinion. Also, it seems that when they respond (on this bulletin board, at least), they generally try to be genuinely helpful and provide real solutions. Unlike other heads of businesses, I don’t recall ever seeing a reply from SmartPak that was merely a defense of their business practices.

In other news, earlier on this thread, I complained about the waterproofing failing on a SmartPak Ultimate sheet. One of their VP’s contacted me, and set it more than straight. The replacement sheet then failed as well (what have I done to the waterproofing gods to deserve this?). I contacted that VP personally again via email and voicemail on Thursday morning and received a return call a few hours later. By Monday I had a new sheet (went with the Rambo this time) in hand, and I haven’t even returned the other two failed sheets yet, though I will.

While I’m disappointed in the quality of the SmartPak sheet and the guarantee means little if I keep having a wet, cold horse, I appreciate the VP’s attentiveness and courtesy. That’s what will keep me going shopping there.

[Belmont]

I understand people being upset about false advertisement, and I think it’s great that Smartpak replied here and to others. I also think its great that they are applying credits to peoples accounts… But really?

People are getting their panties in a wad for $1.00 or $.36. :eek:

Seriously, go look around your car and inbetween your couch cushions to get your dollar back. I probably have a few dollars in change in my cup holders if some of you would like to pay for the shipping to get your “refunds”.

[Donnie_Steele]

Hello again, friends!

MVP - great and totally fair question that has a two part answer

Part 1 - Autonomous Customer Care Representatives
One of the things that I love about our take on customer service is that we empower every SmartPaker to solve issues without having to connect back with their manager. This helps us avoid the dreaded “let me check with my manager” line.

To ensure that we don’t lose the feedback cycle by not running every decision through a handful of managers, we use a simple quality report system that the team uses to report every issue with a discount, product or what have you. In this way, the reps are able to quickly solve our riders’ problems and also ensure every single product defect, promo issue, what have you, is collected, aggregated and distributed. On this particular issue, I think it probably took a day or two for the team to identify the trend.

Part 2 - How Things Get Escalated
Going back to part 1, one of the great things about having an empowered team is many issues are already solved by the time they get elevated with the team having performed root cause analyses and sharing the final outcomes. However, we also have a culture of over-communicating, and this one bubbled up to me pretty quickly after it was identified as a broader issue and not just a handful of one-off issues. What I didn’t immediately realize was that there was also a thread on COTH

At the end of the day, for as much as we rely on the team to elevate issues, we proactively go on the hunt for customer service issues on COTH, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and even blogs. It requires walking a fine line between stalker and above-and-beyond customer service, but we recognize not everyone will reach back out to us, so we really work hard to uncover customer service issues wherever they may pop up. But the goal is to always be where ever you need us in whatever forum is most helpful. Ultimately, our ability to really listen and your perspective on what can make us better is how we really achieve world-class status and this is truly the reason we are here!

[Jeito]

Donnie Steele, while we have your attention, I want to mention something. Overall, I love Smartpak.

However, this is not the only time your math has been bad. Years ago, I wrote to let you know that you had inaccurate information about Gain & Gleam Supreme 60, a product I was getting in my smartpaks at the time. I am disappointed that you still haven’t corrected it.

You will see in the links below that your “guaranteed analysis” for what you call a maintenance dose - 1 ounce - is really the amount of ingredients in the 2 ounce dose. The first link is yours, and it says “Guaranteed Analysis: (Maintenance Dose = 1 oz (28.4g) per day).” The second link is the manufacturer’s, and it says: “Active Ingredients: Per 2 oz.” Same exact active ingredients. Do you see the problem? Apparently, the person I spoke to at the time didn’t.

https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/gleam-and-gain-supreme-60-8305

http://www.adeptusnutrition.com/eqglmgnsup.html

If a person is getting this in smartpaks, they won’t know they’re only getting 1/2 the “guaranteed analysis.” I only discovered it - or, actually, the barn manager did - because another boarder bought a container from another supplier.