Snake tried to swallow own tail...

[Texarkana]

Anyone know anything about snakes? It’s always so hard to find good info about them online…

I have an almost 13 year old corn snake who gave me a good scare tonight.

Over the past year or two, he’s been getting a little senile come feeding time. He gets excited as in putting him into his feeding container and bites at the air, bites himself, and even accidentally got me once which is totally not like him.

Tonight I placed him in the container and noticed he bit his tail area instead of the thawed mouse next to him. Didn’t think much of it at first, until I checked on him a few minutes later and found him in the process of swallowing his tail. Cue Texarkana’s comedy of errors as I tried to stop him. Eventually I got brave/wise enough to get my fingers on his jaw and try to gently force it open while attempting to tug his tail out of his throat. After what seemed like ages, he released it, then happily ate his mouse, which I took as a good sign. Looked ok on my once-over and is acting fine now.

I’m just worried about him. What in reading online runs the gamut from too hot, too cold, sick, shedding, hungry, throws of death, etc.

What’s the best course of action to keep this from happening again, especially when I’m not entirely sure of the cause? I’m worried he’ll do it to himself in his enclosure and I won’t notice soon enough…

[jetsmom]

In your reading, did it say if a snake ever got very far with that? Curious as to what would have happened if you weren’t there…
Poor little senile snake. Can they have drus like dogs can for dementia?

[jetsmom]

Can’t edit, but just googled it. Seems the consensus is that if a smake gets too warm they will often mistake that for hunger and be disoriented and eat their own tail often with fatal results if no vet is available.
Glad you were there for your senile snake.

[Texarkana]

I saw that too, Jet. Here’s the thing- it’s the coldest weather of the year and my drafty old house is COLD! I’d be really surprised if he was too hot, because even though his heating pad is running, the thermometers on his tank are reading well below usual.

In retrospect, I shouldn’t have even fed him last night with it being chilly, but it’s been one of those weeks where I’ve been so busy and really should have fed him a couple days ago. He was active and hungry and I didn’t want him to wait any longer.

I’m worried about him. He’s had some other changes I’ve just attributed to getting older, but reading so much tonight, it seems 13 isn’t very old for a captive corn snake. I’ve never taken him to the vet before, but now I’m wondering if I should?

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

Isn’t Lauruffian the corn snake expert here? I’ve missed her tales lately - even though I don’t like snakes!

If you take him to the vet, make sure it’s a vet that knows reptiles very well - I don’t think a GP who usually sees cats and dogs would know much about your guy!

And I’m sorry, I know it’s not funny, but I’ve got a senile cat and I could just imagine her thinking her tail was something edible, too . . . the things our animals put us through, eh?

[beowulf]

I know nothing about snakes except some of them look very cool. Used to catch them as kids.

Now I’m realizing they are way weirder than I could imagine… No helpful comments, good luck with your snake Texarkana. I had no idea they could get disoriented from stuff like that… Are snakes… intelligent?

[csaper58]

2Jakes is a snake expert from Florida. You could PM her.

www.chronofhorse.com/forum/member.php?110318-2Jakes

Lauruffian breeds cornsnake, and can be contacted here

www.chronofhorse.com/forum/member.php?101943-Lauruffian

Good luck, hope he was just really hungry.

[Texarkana]

Thanks everyone! I knew there were some folks here who had snake experience.

As a horse person, I’m used to a different level of care/expertise when it comes to animal ownership. I’ve never found anything close for snakes. It’s frustrating!

I was going to call a Nashville-based exotic animal vet I found online yesterday, but it was one of those days at work where the next thing I knew it was 5pm and too late to call. Since my snake seems to be fine, I’ll call Monday and see if they think I need to bring him in. I’m not sure if this is “emergency call” worthy at this point, but I am concerned about a few other things about him.

Beowulf, as far as snakes being intelligent, I think you can compare their intelligence range to birds. What my snake is doing is not typical for him or any other snake in my limited experience. It’s funny, I had a fair amount of herpetology education in college and have been a snake owner for over a decade, but I still feel like I know very little about captive reptile behavior and husbandry. Not a fan of that feeling.

[beowulf]

How is he doing today?

As far as being as intelligent as birds… Are some as clever as magpies and others as dumb as doves? Or are we talking the basal intelligence level, that I would compare to like a sparrow or chickadee? Some birds are wildly intelligent - corvidaes especially… but then you have ducks…

[Rackonteur]

Just feeling pleased with myself for correctly guessing what kinds of birds corvidae are.

Texarkana, I wish I had some suggestions for you but I know nothing about snakes.

I do have an elderly cat who is dealing with age-related issues, so I do sympathize with you and your snake. What is the snake equivalent of “kitteh”?

I hope Lauruffian and 2Jakes will chime in soon. I knew we had some snake experts here but didn’t know their names. Glad csaper did!

[RedmondDressage]

Our king snake had done this a couple of times. I was told that king snakes eat other snakes on the wild so they will do this if they come upon their own tail thinking its prey. I’ve also heard it can be caused by stress. While yours isn’t a king snake, based on what you’ve described I’d bet he thinks its prey. I wonder if his eyesight might be going?

In case it happens again, my snake expert friend told me to dribble a bit of liquor into the side of his mouth to make him release. Sure enough, I dripped some whiskey into his mouth and that did the trick. I used a little syringe to just get a couple of drops in there and avoid the eyes.

[SnicklefritzG]

I’m not familiar with snakes, but if it’s his eyesight and he can’t see the frozen mouse well, can he be “supplemented” with live insects like crickets just to keep him busy and focused? Could he at least detect the movement?

[Texarkana]

Redmond- thank you for that tip! That is very helpful to know, especially if there is a next time. And we sure have enough liquor around.

Snake seems 100% normal still.

I don’t doubt his eyesight could be going, but I’m not sure crickets are the answer. Adult corn snakes don’t really eat crickets, nor would they come close to sustaining him- he’s a 5’ long snake! The only time he has eaten live food is when I first got him as a baby and he was eating pinkies that posed no risk. He’s not used to food moving. But a bigger feeding enclosure might be necessary- he has always eaten in a Rubbermaid storage container, but it is not long enough for him to stretch out. However, this is not a new issue. Maybe I’ve just been lucky until now.

Beowulf- I think they are like birds in the sense they have the capacity to learn and adapt, but are overwhelmingly driven by instinct. They can be wicked smart, but instinct can override that intelligence to their own detriment, too. Birds are more social and interactive.

Thanks again for the well wishes for him everyone! This snake does mean a lot to me; at this point in my life, I’ve owned him longer than any of my horses.

[Lauruffian]

Well hello! Aw, yay, 13yro corn snake! I so feel you on being attached and owning one longer than any of your horses–that’s my Cleo (age 14 1/2) and Seymour (13 1/2)

Minus the whole attempting to swallow his tail thing, your boy’s behavior isn’t unusual necessarily in and of itself–but it’s unusual because it’s new for him. I have seen many overenthusiastic feeders bite at all the wrong things (like ME…c’mon, guys, haven’t you heard about not biting the hand that feeds you?), bite at the air, twitch, and lunge, and otherwise spaz out at OH BOY FOOD time, but not bite themselves.

So, my initial thoughts:

• He could be particularly hungry and thus overenthusiastic, and thus nondiscriminatory.
• His senses could be dulling as he ages, which coupled with food enthusiasm results in less accurate aim.
• It could just be a particularly bizarre moment in his otherwise normal corn snake life.
• There could be some sort of neurological deficit going on resulting in abnormal behavior, but you’d see signs of it in other aspects of his life.

My money would be on one of the first three or a combination thereof.

I’d still feed him in the tub and still offer him f/t mice as you have been, but maybe offer it on tongs so he’s like, “Hey look! That wiggly thing smells like food!” Give him a mousey pinata to target. How often are you feeding him? What size mouse?

Also, this thread is useless without pics!

Incidentally, one of the best reputed corn snake breeders I know posted a pic of one of her valuable offspring doing almost exactly this earlier this spring on one of the FB groups…so it definitely happens to even the most experienced and knowledgeable among us. Sometimes, they just do bizarre stuff that makes no sense. Sometimes, they’re like horses.

My corn snakes seem to have some sense about feeding, at least usually–don’t mess with my ghost corn girl Alina, and previously pictured Cleo can be verrrry excited and indiscriminate. Now, my hognoses…welllllll…they’ll bite annnnnything, including themselves. I had one girl recently lunge at the frozen/thawed mouse offered on tongs–because they bite annnnything-- and miss, causing the mouse to smack her water dish. She lunged and bit the water dish. Then she proceeded to chew on her water dish, trying to get a better position to swallow the thing for a solid minute at least before giving up and letting go. All that time I’m dangling the mouse inches away from her. Another time, I was offering a couple small fuzzy mice to a different girl. My hogs don’t adapt to eating outside their enclosures the way my corns do, so I feed them in their enclosures but place them on paper towels to reduce the risk of ingesting substrate. Well! When I went to check on her, I saw she’d tried to eat the paper towel but thankfully spit it out in a corner of her enclosure. Forget it! I’ll just risk her ingesting substrate, because it’s a helluva lot better than eating freakin’ paper towels.

By the way, this is my snakey-themed Facebook page–lots of pics and stories and such on our mini-snakey-herd here: https://www.facebook.com/CleosKingdom/

Hope everything’s okay with your boy. Looking forward to pics, if you have any.

[TheHotSensitiveType]

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OP I am glad your snake seems to be unfazed by the whole incident! Good thing you were watching. A larger feeding enclosure is a good idea as well as using tongs to hold and wiggle the mouse in front of his face so your guy is less likely to think his own moving tail is food…

I too would love to see a picture! Here is my kiddo’s Corn Snake (snake is about 1 year old now). The snake is twice the size of that picture now… I think I need a new picture!
[IMG]http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/ae113/beakleyl/DSC06009_zpscsewavej.jpg)

I totally understand how hard it is to find information about less common pets. 12 years ago, we adopted a Tokay Gecko. 12 years ago the information available said that Tokay Geckos live 5-7 years… Now the information available says 15-20 years with optimal care!!! We may have passed if we knew that… I am pretty sure this one is at least going to last 20 years.

ETA: I am not sure what color our corn snake is. The closest picture I could find was a bubblegum snow juvenile. Anyone know?

[csaper58]

2 questions

Do corn snakes look for body heat of the f/t mouse or the scent or a combo? Is there an optimal temp that makes the mouse at it’s tasty best?

If the food item touches something else and the scent transfers, is the snake more likely to strike that item? Like your snake and the water dish?

I’m wondering if the OP’s snake could have gotten ‘eau de mouse’ on his tail?

[SnicklefritzG]

I didn’t realize this was a huge snake. I was thinking like 1’ long and apparently he is a lot more than that.:lol:

[Texarkana]

Lauruffian, thanks so much for chiming in with your expertise. Your snakes are beauties! I tried to upload a pic to photobucket of my guy, but it keeps logging me out every time I try to upload. Here’s an ancient picture of him from many years ago (at least 10) already in my photobucket. He’s a striped corn.

He’s currently eating 1 large adult mouse every 7-10 days. For pretty much his entire life, that has sustained him well. But lately he’s been losing weight. Between this incident and some of the other things he’s been doing, I’m wondering if that’s just not enough?? I have a hard time finding exact information on how much he should be eating. Thinking about it now, I did upsize his aquarium around the time a lot of his new behavior started…

I never did get around to calling the vet. I’m a bad snake owner.

TheHotSensitiveType- your snake is also a beauty! Not sure what that color is called.

Csaper- I think the “eau de mouse” probably played a part in the incident. I’d just think there would be some sensation of pain or discomfort as the snake is biting and swallowing his own tail that would kick in???

Edited to add: I just fed him again. It’s been not quite a week since the incident, but he started acting hungry a couple days ago. Plus, I’m worried he’ll start a shed early if any scales were damaged as I was ripping his tail out of his throat last week.

He ate fine with no issues. I didn’t do anything differently except hold his body/tail back and out of the feeding container until he latched onto the mouse.

Hopefully he is ok! But I’m going to keep that reptile vet’s number handy…

[Lauruffian]

Hey there! That is one cool looking snake. I’d be very curious to see more pictures of him.

He appears to be either (more likely) a snow (anerythyristic + amelanistic) or (less likely) an opal (lavender + amelanistic), but it’s hard to tell from that photo. Pics (preferably in natural light) detailing the eye and belly will help. He also has the recessive motley pattern, so he’d be called a snow or orchid motley. Motleys have a sort of a ladder pattern across the top connecting the darker background color, so the snakes end up looking like they have light colored circles (they’re actually called saddles ) on a dark background, as opposed to the normal dark circles on a light background. Motleys also have a white, patternless belly, though on a snake this light it’s hard to see the belly checks anyway.

An opal motley would be a pretty unusual thing to have so my guess would be snow, but it could be opal. Do you have any recent pics?

Reference pics:
Snow motley
Opal motley

Very pretty boy, regardless. :yes:

[Lauruffian]

Sorry, that was supposed to be a “Reply with Quote” to The Hot Sensitive Type, but something is wonky with my ability to post. Not only did it not include the quote, it double posted it, then when I click “Edit post” I get the neverending loading circle thing.

Texarkana, I’ll be back to reply to you after tucking oldest in.