So frustrated

[BigMama1]

I’m feeling really frustrated so need your advice / support.

I’ve had my horse for just over a year now and have been struggling for that entire time with getting consistent contact / connection and having him stretch over his back.

No matter what my trainer tells me to do or has me work on, I don’t seem to be “getting it.” I know I have busy hands and a tendancy to try to hold him into place, resulting in a hollow back. If you give him the reins he doesn’t take your hand and stretch down and over his back. In fact he doesn’t even do this on the lunge line on his own.

Over the course of the year I think the issue has gotten worse, instead of better. Is it just the way she’s explaining it to me? A lack of consistency? Just me bringing the horse down to the level of the rider’s skills?

He does get ridden by my trainer once a week but that’s not enough to see him make any progress, just enough to fix what I’ve made crooked / wrong during the week LOL. And to be honest, I think he looks hollow or else bounces around in the contact when she rides him too.

I’m really frustrated by this issue specifically and the fact it is really holding back our progress overall. To the point where I’m starting to question whether I need a new trainer, even though I’m sure the problem is with me

Any suggestions?

[Manni01]

Sorry to say, but the problem is with you… Dont know what your trainer tells you, but maybe you try to be too nice with your horse… Its a huge horse and maybe the horse needs a bit more encouragement.
You have to keep your rains short and encourage your horse with your legs to use his back, and there might be moments where you get resistance, because the horse clearly has to work more. Its very basic what you have to do but you have to do it consistently…
sounds maybe strange, but you have to go from short reins to longe reins, once the contact is established… I think many people try to do it the other way around, which is wrong…

[Countrywood]

Whatever the problem is, you do need a new trainer. And is she a trainer or a riding instructor? A trainer means they can pinpoint the problem with a horse and come up with a plan to address it. Even if your riding still needs work, there are ways to address this and also on lunge line. Plus in a year , she should have given you some tips to make your riding better. It sounds like you are not making progress and going backward so imo look for a new trainer. The above post gave good advice but you still need to find a new trainer imo

[cleozowner]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8626660]
Sorry to say, but the problem is with you… Dont know what your trainer tells you, but maybe you try to be too nice with your horse… Its a huge horse and maybe the horse needs a bit more encouragement.
You have to keep your rains short and encourage your horse with your legs to use his back, and there might be moments where you get resistance, because the horse clearly has to work more. Its very basic what you have to do but you have to do it consistently…
sounds maybe strange, but you have to go from short reins to longe reins, once the contact is established… I think many people try to do it the other way around, which is wrong…[/QUOTE]

Don’t agree at all. The trainer/student/horse combination is not working here. If the trainer can’t explain it in a way that helps the student, this is not a good match. It could be that they’re the world’s best rider/trainer, but if the communication isn’t working, then a new trainer with different communication is needed.

Not to mention, if the trainer isn’t making progress with the horse with weekly rides, something is wrong.

[Silverbridge]

I have the same frustrations, I am trying and trying and I still don’t get it. Or else it comes in little pieces at a time. Or I do get something but then, I can’t replicate what feels like a breakthrough in my equitation from one day to the next. Sometimes I’m home lying in bed and remember what it was I had planned to remember to do while riding, that I’d forgotten.

I think all of this is very normal for those of us who have one horse to ride, while we are learning. And it’s made all the more challenging when the horse is learning at the same time. So we need to accept the process of one step forward and two steps back, it’s normal.

What’s different in my case from what the OP describes, though, is that my trainer is on my horse much more frequently. And, when my trainer is riding, my horse looks like a million bucks. She’s at least a full level above what I am routinely capable of getting from her, more prompt, more attentive, more forward, and in a very different carriage. Because of that, I am able to experience glimpses and feelings of the intended destiny, in my own riding.

I couldn’t do this at all if that weren’t the case. If you have the opportunity to try a few other trainers, I would do that. Look for a person in your area whose horses move with energy and consistency. And look for someone whose students make progress in measurable ways.

It’s a frustrating endeavor for sure. Another aid to progress would be adding lessons on a very solid schoolmaster intermittent with your rides on your own horse. Easier said than done, logistically and budget-wise. But, there’s little doubt that schoolmaster lessons under the right teacher would give many of us an improved sense of the intention behind what we’re trying to accomplish.

It’s also unfortunate that the most proven solutions are expensive ones.

[GraceLikeRain]

Once a week is not enough time for a trainer to help a horse make progress.

What was his level of training when he arrived? Was he consistent in the contact? Do you have any videos?

If you think your trainer is really good then I’d put him in full training for 30-60 days. Otherwise, I’d look for another trainer who can help explain things to you more clearly. A year is a long time to be stalled out and not making progress.

On the lunge line is he in side reins? How frequently is he lunged?

[happilyretired]

This can indeed be a very frustrating experience. It’s taken me a LONG time with one of my geldings (a Friesian) to begin to get him to stretch into contact and lift his back. Some horses are just more difficult — due perhaps to conformation, earlier training, a rider who is less skillful, etc etc.
What has made all the difference for me (over the past two years) is working with a very experienced trainer/instructor. My trainer took the time to ride my horse enough to really understand this specific horse and it helped him help me. And, he is a gifted riding instructor as well and has been able to help me figure out what I need to do. It all sounds quite straightforward when described … ride the horse more back to front; get the hind legs moving; develop a more effective, independent, and fluid seat; learn how to feel when the horse is losing balance and then how to restore balance. But it has taken time and a lot of focused work.
Frustration is part of the journey but if you don’t feel you and your horse are making any progress its probably time to find a new trainer.

[Lieslot]

I had the same problem with my young horse, I did the Jane Savoie home course and it was a big eye opener.
I just wasn’t setting my horse up to take a contact & connect, I lacked the understanding of the need for flexing & supplying my horses poll & neck, giving him an inviting contact and find that steady rythm before even expecting him to connect into my hands let alone work on collection.
I use to think if I just kicked him on forward and held steady he was supposed to come into my hands, that never was the case and to my frustration I did not understand why he did so for my trainer.

Yes you need to ride them back to front, but you need to start with a solid forward rhythm and then you need to supple the front end first before you get back to front.

The course was expensive, but I sure wished I knew about that 10 years ago. Now I understand the gaps in my riding and how I was transferring those in my young horse.
Before him I used to ride well trained horses that would just come round on their own due to previous training (not mine, lol) when you picked up the reins in a mere contact.
To those horses contact meant connect, come over your back, to the young horse contact meant just that and nothing more.

I lacked the basic understanding to even benefit from my lessons. Whatever my trainer said wasn’t sinking in, because I didn’t truly understand until it was broken down to me in mini steps in Jane’s course with good visuals.
And now I have no more lessons, yet I have much better rides than when I was having 2 lessons a week :).

Just my experience ;).

[Velvet]

Yep. New trainer/instructor is needed. And, you might need more time on horses that actually do it so you can lock the feeling into your mind and body.

[hoopoe]

this is the perfect triad of issue

a horse that does not understand or does not have ability

a trainer who is not communicating well or is not riding the horse enough to make a change

a rider who cannot create the training change and cannot connect to the trainers words.

I agree with a 30 - 60 day full training for horse and lessons on a school master for the rider . If possible, the rider should watch some of the trainers work so that she can see effective riding.

If the trainer cannot get this horse through, then consideration should be given to the soundness of the horse ( including conformation) , the fit of the tack.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8626660]
Sorry to say, but the problem is with you… Dont know what your trainer tells you, but maybe you try to be too nice with your horse… Its a huge horse and maybe the horse needs a bit more encouragement.
You have to keep your rains short and encourage your horse with your legs to use his back, and there might be moments where you get resistance, because the horse clearly has to work more. Its very basic what you have to do but you have to do it consistently…
sounds maybe strange, but you have to go from short reins to longe reins, once the contact is established… I think many people try to do it the other way around, which is wrong…[/QUOTE]

Without seeing the person, I don’t know how you could say the above with confidence… I entirely disagree.

But what OP has written, to me, sounds like a red flag for two things: lack of suitability in regards to horse, and lack of suitability in regards to trainer. If the trainer can’t explain to a student in the simplest terms possible, the trainer doesn’t understand it either – this is not conducive to a learning environment.

I know when I pick a trainer I don’t always pick the trainer with the biggest accomplishments: I pick a trainer who can break down my problems into the simplest of solutions and help me understand exactly how to address them, and one that I consistently see improvements with every ride. I want a trainer who can illustrate my every flaw, and sear into my brain the mental image needed to correct this.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

I read your post and it is all about your hands and the horse’s head. That’s your problem right there. You need to be thinking about your driving aids (leg backed up by the whip) and your horse’s hind legs and back.

Can you longe your horse with properly adjusted side reins? If so, can you watch how he becomes steadier in the bridle when you activate his hind end? You can reproduce this simply by shortening the reins, holding on to the front of the saddle and driving the horse forward.

It sounds like you know that your hands are a big part of the problem, and I assume that your trainer has told you that. If you are busier with your leg than you are with your hands, you will get better results.

[Pocket_Pony]

Do you do any ground work suppling exercises in-hand to show your horse what it means to flex laterally and longitudinally? How it feels to release tension in the poll and soften? How to move on a circle and step underneath his body with the inside hind?

If the horse doesn’t understand what the rein and leg aids mean for moving his body while someone is in the tack, then it can be very helpful to start this sort of system from the ground and then transfer it to under saddle work. Riding of any sort is a progressive training system. You don’t just get on and set your reins and kick the horse and tell him he should move into your hands and be over his back and there, you’re done. He needs to understand the hand and the leg separately and then together.

How are your lessons structured, what does your trainer tell you to do?

Sounds like a new trainer may be in order. Are there any clinicians who come to your area so that you could go watch someone else teach?

[merrygoround]

OP you have not got an unusual problem. Everyone has to learn about contact. Sometimes it helps to have a schoolmaster who easily gives to contact so that you can feel it and learn to give, and give quickly when you get the feel. I think too, that you may be confusing the idea of contact with that of being “on the bit”. Contact is simply a light elastic touch feel between your hand and the horse’s mouth, "on the bit requires the rider sending the hose forward, and really is only achieved with a slight amount of self carriage from the horse. Not to be confused with collection. Teaching these feelings, and helping a student achieve them takes time, and adherence to the basics.

But if after a year, you may need to find your self a teacher rather than a trainer.

[merrygoround]

OP you have not got an unusual problem. Everyone has to learn about contact. Sometimes it helps to have a schoolmaster who easily gives to contact so that you can feel it and learn to give, and give quickly when you get the feel. I think too, that you may be confusing the idea of contact with that of being “on the bit”. Contact is simply a light elastic touch feel between your hand and the horse’s mouth, "on the bit requires the rider sending the hose forward, and really is only achieved with a slight amount of self carriage from the horse. Not to be confused with collection. Teaching these feelings , and helping a student achieve them takes time, and adherence to the basics.

[SendenHorse]

I don’t think we ever “get contact” once and for all. For me it’s always evolving. it could be a trainer issue, but not always.

I don’t have any simple answers, but getting a second opinion from a trainer might help evaluate what is the rider and original trainer-with out having to end the first relationship.

Saddle fit is also key!!!

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8626809]
Without seeing the person, I don’t know how you could say the above with confidence… I entirely disagree.

But what OP has written, to me, sounds like a red flag for two things: lack of suitability in regards to horse, and lack of suitability in regards to trainer. If the trainer can’t explain to a student in the simplest terms possible, the trainer doesn’t understand it either – this is not conducive to a learning environment.

I know when I pick a trainer I don’t always pick the trainer with the biggest accomplishments: I pick a trainer who can break down my problems into the simplest of solutions and help me understand exactly how to address them, and one that I consistently see improvements with every ride. I want a trainer who can illustrate my every flaw, and sear into my brain the mental image needed to correct this.[/QUOTE]

Congratulations you solved the problem. Sell the horse and get a new trainer…

Not sure why everybody thinks getting a new trainer will solve the problem??? I agree with Merrygoround

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8626913]
Congratulations you solved the problem. Sell the horse and get a new trainer…

Not sure why everybody thinks getting a new trainer will solve the problem??? I agree with Merrygoround[/QUOTE]

maybe you need to read the thread and the responses if you’re confused on why everyone is suggesting a new trainer…

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8626929]
maybe you need to read the thread and the responses if you’re confused on why everyone is suggesting a new trainer… :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I am sure I have no idea what I am talking about…

By the way… this is a video which I would recommend for the OP to watch and to listen… It gives really good advice what to do… And I would simply disregard that the horse and the rider are very good. Just picture yourself doing it …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9_o-pCdZ8s

[Eclectic_Horseman]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8626929]
maybe you need to read the thread and the responses if you’re confused on why everyone is suggesting a new trainer… :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

The OP only posted once. She doesn’t say how the horse goes with the trainer riding. She doesn’t say what the trainer has told her to do, and whether she has been able to do it. She doesn’t even say what the horse’s level of training is.

Most contact problems that ammies have are not trainer problems. They are basic riding problems, such as lack of an independent seat or fear of riding forward. And usually this is compounded with a green or poorly trained horse being ridden by a green rider. Let’s rule those things out before firing the trainer, shall we?