Bluey, I do agree with you in that I don’t expect a writer to be beyond reproach, but A Day at the Races was not represented as fiction. It was supposed to be about her relationship with horses. Maybe I am being immature about this, but her actions disappoint me.
[QUOTE=Bluey;3166450]
I think that COTHs overuse of it was part of the reason of the demise of that icon you so miss.
I have known some very good fiction writers in real life and their works were not exactly autobiographical, or expected to be.
I didn’t know readers expected fiction to be any other than…fiction.
[/QUOTE]
“A Year at the Races” book is nonfiction. It was a memoir.
And I’ve been on these boards for 5+ years. I don’t ever remember having a vomit icon here. I’ve needed it several times, however.
[QUOTE=lizathenag;3166404]
What do you think I should ask her?[/QUOTE]
Ask her if she enjoyed the screenwriting process?
shrugs
People here act as though they want to make it their mission to harangue this woman 'til the end of her days over this. That’s a sad pursuit. People start dogpiling on her, she’s never going to be receptive to anyone on the issue. It’s easier to just rip on her, I suppose.
If I were to see her any time soon, I would ask if I could be considered next time she needs to sell a horse, as I’m a fan of her books and would love to have a piece of it. Not only does this firmly plant the idea that these horses would be in-demand, but it would make clear that I’m interested. Seems sensible.
I’ve read Horse Heaven and A Day At The Races and found them unrewarding; at the risk of disagreeing with the literary consensus, I think she’s not much of a writer. Little style. But in terms of the whole controversy over Waterwheel, I think it’s something to keep in mind that she is a professional writer, someone who’s always thinking “Can I use this in my work?” She could use Waterwheel and racing for a while; now she’s on to something else. This is NOT to say her profession excuses her callousness toward her horse, but it explains some of it. And the disconnect between her personna in the book - superhorsey owner who wuvs her babies to distant owner who rationally sells a mare off without much thought to her future - is also understandable in that context. And I do not defend that either; I’m getting a little sick of writers making a buck off the fact that nonfiction sells better than fiction and writing memoirs, then futzing around with the truth because God forbid they play by the rules of the genre they’re exploiting.
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[QUOTE=Mozart;3166425]
lizathenag I was waiting to see if you would post; I know you are a fan of her books as am I. I read all of them, horsey and non-horsey.
Perhaps the question might be “do you feel it is incongruous to write about a horse in a manner that suggests it’s fate is very important to you and then put the horse in an auction, albeit a reputable one, where you cannot control as much as the next owner? Would it not have been possible to retain ownership and place the horse in an appropriate situation given the way you wrote about her in your book”?
While I don’t expect the authors of books I read to be saints, this disappoints me.[/QUOTE]
Perfect! I too have been a fan of many (though certainly not all) of her books. I don’t know JS and doubt I ever will. It just disappoints me so much that a person who is in a position to easily do so much good for OTTB’s chooses not to…
[QUOTE=mp;3166485]
“A Year at the Races” book is nonfiction. It was a memoir.
And I’ve been on these boards for 5+ years. I don’t ever remember having a vomit icon here. I’ve needed it several times, however.[/QUOTE]
I was being facetious about the icon.
Sorry, I didn’t know that book was supposed to be other than fiction.
We need to remember that there is a whole big wide world out there that don’t see horses and their ownership in the same vein some on COTH see them and it is ok too.
If we want to curb horse abuse and be taken seriously, not as neurotic overreacting meddlers, we need to do that where true abuse really happens, not on the little pesky dotted i’s and crossed t’s of the finer ethical questions of horse ownership.
So what if she sold the horse thru a broodmare sale, for whatever silly reason, rather than retiring her for the rest of her life to horsey welfare?
That is her prerrogative as a horse owner, legally and ethically.
Remember, many people agree (if few here on COTH seem to) that, even if the mare had finally or may end yet eventuallly at slaughter, that also is a proper end for a horse no one wants, in many people’s eyes.
Some people do think that horses are already a luxury we can hardly support as a society that is getting more and more strapped for resources and that adding horsey welfare to that is unrealistic, in the greater order of things.
There are already questions about our needs and uses of animals.
In the end, if we want to be honest, as the animal rights people demand, NOT using them is the best for any animals, if we like it or not.
We better be careful about throwing stones to others, as horse users ourselves, when our use of horses is not exactly what frugal, socially conscious people should pursue in todays complicated world, with so many human and ecological issues looming over us.
Hard to tell others which parts of their lives they should do as they see fit with and which ones we superior enlightened beings don’t consider proper.
Of course, letting others lead their own lives in peace doesn’t produce the drama some selfrighteous people crave.:winkgrin:
[QUOTE=riverbell93;3166518]
This is NOT to say her profession excuses her callousness toward her horse, but it explains some of it. [/QUOTE]
This is where everyone loses me. How is selling a horse “callous”??? People buy and sell horses every single day. Does that automatically make them “callous”?
This is my take on it. Anyone can feel free agree or disagree.
Waterwheel is by a non-commercial but consistent sire out of a stakes-placed broodmare. She herself showed some promise on the track, but was injured as a 2 y/o. IIRC, sesamoids? Which is frequently a man-made injury and a hazard of the trade. She had 3 foals, only 2 of which are racing age, and 1 winner. She was in foal to a well known regional sire.
For whatever reason, Smiley decided to sell her. I don’t think it’s anyone’s business why she wanted to sell her-- it’s not a crime to sell a horse. Smiley consigned her in the appropriate market for a racing broodmare. I doubt she was expecting to make a fortune, but surely she was expecting Waterwheel to bring more than $1K. In my experience, reserves are frequently not set on average stock because the market can be fickle. Waterwheel’s low sale price proved that point.
So Smiley took a loss and a CA breeder got a bargain on a young mare that still has something to prove.
Where is the callousness?
I understand everyone is upset that their image of Waterwheel living in Smiley’s backyard forever and ever has been shattered. But this was hardly an unhappy ending for anyone. Except maybe Smiley, who took a loss on her mare AND has a mob of angry pleasure horse owners looking to lynch her because of a blogger who misrepresented the situation. :lol:
—"I understand everyone is upset that their image of Waterwheel living in Smiley’s backyard forever and ever has been shattered. But this was hardly an unhappy ending for anyone. Except maybe Smiley, who took a loss on her mare AND has a mob of angry pleasure horse owners looking to lynch her because of a blogger who misrepresented the situation. "—
That is really all this thread seems to be about, following the lynch mob mentality of blogs.
If people don’t like that race horses are bought and sold, as horses are in any venue we use them, they should fight that, not attack a person for selling their horse, just because they are famous and an easy target.
I don’t have a romantic picture of her relationship with that horse. I did however develop an opinion of her as someone with a thoughtful and responsible relationship to owning animals, particularly through reading A Year At the Races, which is presented as non-fiction. In the case of a book like that, I figure that events might or might not have occurred exactly as she presented them, but that her opinions and thoughts about animals and why she bothered to own them would be pretty much as presented. Why wouldn’t they be?
While that particular auction is apparently not particularly slaughter-related, I was not impressed. I think she could have afforded to have done better for that animal, and I would have that opinion regardless of her status as a writer. Auctions are a crapshoot, and if you care about an animal, ANY ANIMAL, you try to do better for them than hoping they get lucky. This doesn’t require us to be crazy bleeding heart animal people who are out of touch with reality, it just requires RESPONSIBILITY, and a view of life that says, sometimes doing the best one can for one animal means some expense and inconvenience. And if you are unprepared to take on the expense and inconvenience, then don’t acquire, or breed, the animal.
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No. For me (at least), it’s not just that she sold a broodmare at auction that’s the problem (and BTW, around here, $1,000 for an in foal broodie who didn’t do much and is a pretty good price).
The problem to me is that she led us to believe that she cared for the mare and claimed not to want to contribute to TB overbreeding. Her actions do not bear that out and could have had unpleasant consequences for the mare…
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[QUOTE=BeastieSlave;3166584]
It just disappoints me so much that a person who is in a position to easily do so much good for OTTB’s chooses not to…[/QUOTE]
This I can agree with wholeheartedly. JS could have made a better choice, one to make her a high-profile representative for other horse owners and enthusiasts, and it’s disappointing that she didn’t. But selling a mare for whom she had no further use? I really, sincerely have a hard time getting so upset about that.
[QUOTE=Paragon;3166665]
This I can agree with wholeheartedly. JS could have made a better choice, one to make her a high-profile representative for other horse owners and enthusiasts, and it’s disappointing that she didn’t. But selling a mare for whom she had no further use? I really, sincerely have a hard time getting so upset about that.[/QUOTE]
Maybe she doesn’t really grasp the width of the problem of unwanted horses?
Very few people I know, even in the horse industry, have come in contact with this, other than very superficially.
How about finding out first what she knows, providing information about this to her if she doesn’t really has the in depth knowledge these matters require, then giving her time to mull over it and then ask for her help to provide for unwanted horses?
[QUOTE=Lori B;3166642]
Auctions are a crapshoot, and if you care about an animal, ANY ANIMAL, you try to do better for them than hoping they get lucky. [/QUOTE]
I’m not necessarily saying I disagree, but auctions are the #1 method of selling horses and livestock worldwide. Everything from million dollar racehorses to Olympic caliber warmblood prospects in Europe to livestock intended for meat. I think it’s foolish to imply every person who sells at auction does not care about their animal.
Yes, Smiley could have choosen to re-home the horse via other means, but I have a hard time chastising someone for selling a horse within its market.
And, anytime you re-home a horse there is a slight risk something bad may happen down the line… no matter what the method.
Can everyone here name the exact location and status of every horse they have ever sold? Maybe there are a few who can, but by and far I bet many of us have lost track of horses along the way. No one likes to think about it, but who’s to say those horses didn’t end up in a bad situation despite our efforts?
[QUOTE=Bluey;3166605]
I was being facetious about the icon.
Sorry, I didn’t know that book was supposed to be other than fiction.
We need to remember that there is a whole big wide world out there that don’t see horses and their ownership in the same vein some on COTH see them and it is ok too.
If we want to curb horse abuse and be taken seriously, not as neurotic overreacting meddlers, we need to do that where true abuse really happens, not on the little pesky dotted i’s and crossed t’s of the finer ethical questions of horse ownership.
So what if she sold the horse thru a broodmare sale, for whatever silly reason, rather than retiring her for the rest of her life to horsey welfare?
That is her prerrogative as a horse owner, legally and ethically.
Remember, many people agree (if few here on COTH seem to) that, even if the mare had finally or may end yet eventuallly at slaughter, that also is a proper end for a horse no one wants, in many people’s eyes.
Some people do think that horses are already a luxury we can hardly support as a society that is getting more and more strapped for resources and that adding horsey welfare to that is unrealistic, in the greater order of things.
There are already questions about our needs and uses of animals.
In the end, if we want to be honest, as the animal rights people demand, NOT using them is the best for any animals, if we like it or not.
We better be careful about throwing stones to others, as horse users ourselves, when our use of horses is not exactly what frugal, socially conscious people should pursue in todays complicated world, with so many human and ecological issues looming over us.
Hard to tell others which parts of their lives they should do as they see fit with and which ones we superior enlightened beings don’t consider proper.
Of course, letting others lead their own lives in peace doesn’t produce the drama some selfrighteous people crave.:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
You know Bluey, I find it funny that I almost always agree with you though it seems like you enjoy a good debate because you are always involved in these threads haha. You said exactly what I have been thinking on this issue of selling the horse but I couldn’t put it into words. Thank you.
On the fiction/ non fiction/memior front. I think there is a growing precedence for memoirs to be big exaggerations as they are “recounts of memories” told in a story, often fictional style and in a way that would be interesting to a reader… So I don’t hold it against her, and I don’t think she is a hypocrite though I can see why people including myself are disenchanted.
I also find it funny that people assume she is “loaded” just because she is a successful writer. The two just don’t occur to automatically go together IMO.
Personally I don’t hold others accountable for their emotions, or their interpretation of their own emotions, or how their own emotions may change. Emotions are just not stable IMO. I think Jane and the rest of us individuals are walking alone each in a snowfield of our own. It was her horse, and her decision. She didn’t abuse the horse in any way. So although I am disenchanted, and wonder what other facts of the track she has exaggerated, it is a good reminder that truth is hard to come by, and I don’t hold it against her as some kind of huge ethical misstep.
I don’t really enjoy her style of writing anyways, so I probably won’t try to get through any more of her books.
Texarkana and other JS apologists (I pick on Texarkana simply because she’s the latest): Most people would call JS’ memoir hypocritical based on her action of sending Waterwheel, unsound and in foal, to auction. Auctions may be the most popular method of “getting rid of” the racing industry’s excess, but that doesn’t make it doing the right thing by your horses.
People employ the lowest common denominator because it’s easiest, or because they can’t do any better. She could have done better, and thereby deservedly lost a lot of the respect that some of her fans held for her.
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Not surprising she would appear not to have regard for the subject of “A Year at the Races” after the treatment of the family she based “Barn Blind” on. I pass on her books. On-topic though, asking her why (small) monetary gain won out over sentimentality does not equal “haranguing” in my book.
[QUOTE=I’m EBO;3166787]
Auctions may be the most popular method of “getting rid of” the racing industry’s excess, but that doesn’t make it doing the right thing by your horses.
People employ the lowest common denominator because it’s easiest, or because they can’t do any better. She could have done better, and thereby deservedly lost a lot of the respect that some of her fans held for her.[/QUOTE]
This is where we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Contrary to what FHOTD will have everyone believe, the majority of TB sales are not merely dumping grounds for excess riff raff. The sales are the entire market. Very little private treaty business is done in the racing world, especially not at the state level.
A mare with a job was sold in a venue where she would be most likely to attract a buyer.
But I don’t expect to be able to change anyone’s opinion. I understand people feel let down by someone in the public eye. I just don’t think JS is the reprehensible villian that some portray her as. It seems much of the anathema has stemmed from ignorance and hearsay rather than actual fact.
The sales are not the entire market. You always have a choice as an owner. You can choose to sell or adopt out privately to a person that you are comfortable with, after discussing what that person intends to do with the horse, verifying they have a decent facility, etc.
I have a TB mare right now that has lived a fairly common life story. She raced fairly extensively. She won a little over sixty thousand. She had a number of foals, none of which performed at a high level. The owners got into money trouble and she was abandoned at a breeding farm. Now, the breeding farm could have sent her to a sale and picked up a few hundred dollars to recoup their costs. They did not. They chose to give her to a good home - mine - and I continue to supply them with updates and pictures.
Is there a great home for every old broken down broodmare out there? No. But I doubt anybody would dispute there is a great home for a “famous” one like Waterwheel. How hard would it be to find a placement, given the mare’s celebrity as a result of the book? Not hard. It would have required very little effort. Any TB rescue would have been thrilled for the publicity that would have come from being allowed to place this mare, and would have ensured she went to a screened home, under contract.
The mare got lucky - she is in a good home. But as others have said, it was a crapshoot and she could have just as easily had bad luck that day.
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[QUOTE=catknsn;3166862]
The sales are not the entire market. You always have a choice as an owner. You can choose to sell or adopt out privately to a person that you are comfortable with, after discussing what that person intends to do with the horse, verifying they have a decent facility, etc.[/QUOTE]
Is there a great home for every old broken down broodmare out there? No. But I doubt anybody would dispute there is a great home for a “famous” one like Waterwheel. How hard would it be to find a placement, given the mare’s celebrity as a result of the book? Not hard. It would have required very little effort. Any TB rescue would have been thrilled for the publicity that would have come from being allowed to place this mare, and would have ensured she went to a screened home, under contract.
The mare got lucky - she is in a good home. But as others have said, it was a crapshoot and she could have just as easily had bad luck that day.
I completely agree you always have a choice. But I don’t equivocate adopting out or placing in the rescue as “the same market.” I see things differently in the terms of placing an in-foal TB broodmare vs. an unsound companion horse. Obviously you don’t see any difference. We’ll have to agree to disagree.
The implication has been made by you in your blog that this mare shouldn’t have been bred and, “she’d have been a $200 canner if she’d been open.” I completely disagree. I still think the mare still had a leg to stand on in a regional breeding program and was a victim of a low sale price in a poor market. Even with the bad market, I don’t feel she was at any elevated risk going through this particular sale. No more so than if she had given the mare away to a friend to be a pasture ornament. Would we even be having this conversation if the mare had brought $5000 instead of $1000?
I also don’t see how anyone could justify that JS should have used up a rescue’s resources for a useful mare that can still stand on her own as a broodmare. There are plenty of lame mares with worse paper who are much more deserving of a spot in a rescue.
I know A LOT of people have beefs with the racing industry. Some of it well earned, much of it not. But I don’t really see how targeting Jane Smiley is going to help, especially when I don’t see any justification behind the outcry.
Exactly who is Waterwheel - can’t find her on pedigree query.
