So I asked Jane Smiley about Waterwheel

[riverbell93]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;3166620]
This is where everyone loses me. How is selling a horse “callous”??? People buy and sell horses every single day. Does that automatically make them “callous”?[/QUOTE]

To quietly sell the horse at auction without evincing much interest in her future might be quite common and unremarkable for Joe Breeder/Trainer/Rider, but Joe didn’t go out of his way to write a book about how a writer gets mixed up in the crazy horseracing world and tries to balance the bottom line with her tender feelings. I can live with hypocrisy; I do not like exploitation being used as a cheap substitute for art, and the Waterwheel sale gives the appearance of Smiley being a fraud re: her portrayal of herself and her racing experience. And, yeah, I think it’s lacking to sell a pregnant mare at auction with no reserve in a bad market without any effort (as far as I know, and that radio interview doesn’t mention anything) to sell her privately first.

@Granada;3166759

On the fiction/ non fiction/memior front. I think there is a growing precedence for memoirs to be big exaggerations as they are “recounts of memories” told in a story, often fictional style and in a way that would be interesting to a reader…

There is a place for semi-fictionalized memoirs, but it’s not in the nonfiction shelf. One of the best was Kenneally’s “Schindler’s List,” which traditionally floats around bookstores in search of a home because Keneally took literary freedoms with conversations, etc. It belongs in the fiction area, just
as the film version is a drama, not a documentary. Memoirs are first-person histories, and already prone to inevitable losses, exagerations and warps of memory. Doing that on purpose is beyond the pale. It’s a degradation.

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;3166950]
Exactly who is Waterwheel - can’t find her on pedigree query.[/QUOTE]

Here you go:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/waterwheel

By (Kentucky Derby winner) Grindstone out of Our Wild Rose, by Once Wild.

As for all this kerfluffle:
It’s probably not the choice I would’ve made, but TB auctions are as much marketing as they are ‘have to sell it now’ type arrangements. People in the market for horses end up going to sales where they can see a lot of horses in a short time. I suspect she hoped there’d be more interest in the mare and it probably didn’t occur to her that she could sell/place the mare privately as “Jane Smiley’s famous Waterwheel” rather than just on her own merits. That said, the mare appears to have a nice home where she is appreciated, and Smiley knows that - which is to her credit. Most people who “dispose” of horses through an auction wouldn’t know how the mare was doing after the sale.

If you’re interested in a different view of the racing industry, I suggest A Horse of a Different Color by Jim Squires, as he worries over who will get the babies he’s selling at auction.

[summerhorse]

[QUOTE=Vandy;3165410]
This is perhaps the biggest crock of sh!t I have ever heard. Removing the temptation? Like, there’s a mare in my barn and I just can’t help myself from breeding it? So I sold it at an auction where most of the people shopping are looking for broodmares? AAARRRGHH, I have never been tempted to breed the useless mares I own, and one of the reasons I keep them is I’m afraid they will be bred if I were to sell them.

Oh, and as one of the regular folks who struggles to support my retirees and “useless” horses, this situation is particularly poignant because someone like Jane Smiley can certainly afford to care for the horses she bred that don’t make it.

ETA: Maybe instead of throwing her money away on a ridiculous horse psychic for Waterwheel, she should have saved it for the mare’s retirement instead :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Totally agree!

ETA: While the upset price at most TB auctions (most not all) is $1,000 the KB’s generally wait and go back to the barns and clean up the horses that didn’t sell. Every year some rescues manage to get some of these but of course they can’t save them all. Some landed at TB Friends and adopted through his network, others went to Tranquility Farms who are there every year offering owners the ability to donate their horses for a tax write off instead of the $200-300 the KB is offering. Few do.

Jane could have donated Waterwheel here: http://www.tranquilityfarmtbs.org/adoptable_mares_foals.htm
Gotten some free publicity for all involved.

Luckily WW was wanted by someone but depending on if she might have been a back barn sale or not she might have been ONE bidder from getting on the slaughter truck. I don’t have a problem with selling the mare, I do have a problem with misrepresenting herself and the fact she could have A) found a home for her or B) supported her without much problem or C) donated her to a TB rescue along with a financial gift for her support. Instead she just ran her through the sale with no reserve. Luckily it worked out for the better it sounds for the horse!

[beameup]

i am really disappointed , reading this, and relieved that Waterwheel found a good home. Y’all are absolutely right that we have a responsibility to every animal in our life, whether we make money off them or not.

[Bluey]

I don’t know, but will repeat that maybe the lady in question didn’t know that there are other options for TB race broodmares, found the standard selling of a TB broodmare thru a TB broodmare sale perfectly acceptable and thought it is fine to give her another chance at someone that may want her, not really understanding what sales are, or knowing that there were other ways to sell or even give her away.

Just think that not all are that versed in ALL aspects of what goes on with horses, not all read COTH and other horse forums, not that many people really gave all this a second thought, YET.

I say that we do better informing people of their choices, rather than blaming them for bad choices, especially when we are not sure why they made those less than fortunate choices.

Then, remember, I don’t have any way of knowing, just circumstancial evidence tell me so, since people in the public eye tend to be very sensitive to pitfalls in their image, if they know they are there to fall into.

I think that, being a public figure, I expect she would have gone the more PC and publicity garnering route of donating or finding what some here consider “a perfect home”, if she had known about it.
That is why I think she sold the mare as she did, thinking that was the best way, with what she knew.:yes:

[equinelaw]

No. Thats the point–she not only knew all the options but also knew all the risks and wrote 2 books about it. In fact, she probably influenced a LOT of people to NOT do just what she did:) We KNOW for a fact she knew the options and risks becuase she told us all about it over the years.

Thats why some of us see hypocracy and irony in the situation. She knew exactly what she was doing and sis it anyway while writing tales about why it souldn’t be done.

She got tired of race horses and decided to make them go away. She had MORE options then anyone else and still chose the same option that people who know nothign do and people who claim horses have to thoughts or feelings or value outside their winnings do.

Speaks with forked tounge. And another word not allowed on COTH:)

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=equinelaw;3167263]
No. Thats the point–she not only knew all the options but also knew all the risks and wrote 2 books about it. In fact, she probably influenced a LOT of people to NOT do just what she did:) We KNOW for a fact she knew the options and risks becuase she told us all about it over the years.

Thats why some of us see hypocracy and irony in the situation. She knew exactly what she was doing and sis it anyway while writing tales about why it souldn’t be done.

She got tired of race horses and decided to make them go away. She had MORE options then anyone else and still chose the same option that people who know nothign do and people who claim horses have to thoughts or feelings or value outside their winnings do.

Speaks with forked tounge. And another word not allowed on COTH:)[/QUOTE]

Then, if that is so, she will just have to suffer any consequences to her public faux pas.:no:

I only read her Pulitzer winning book, many years ago, still have it here somewhere.
I didn’t really liked it, so didn’t follow her and was not aware she wrote other books, much less horse related ones.

I am around many people in the horse industry that still don’t know there is an issue at all with unwanted horses of any kind and thought she may be one of them.

[Paragon]

[QUOTE=SandyUHC;3166806]
Not surprising she would appear not to have regard for the subject of “A Year at the Races” after the treatment of the family she based “Barn Blind” on.[/QUOTE]

Oh? Who is the family?

[ravenclaw]

[QUOTE=Bluey;3167297]
I only read her Pulitzer winning book, many years ago, still have it here somewhere.
I didn’t really liked it[/QUOTE]
I read A Thousand Acres. I think it is overrated. Some parts are interesting, but overall I thought it was pretty boring and slow. I have a copy of Horse Heaven (have had it for years) but I haven’t read it. Probably because of how little I liked A Thousand Acres.

I have mixed feelings about the Waterwheel thing. There are worse auctions she could have gone to and it’s not a crime to sell a horse at auction. But I agree that there were other, better options. Like other COTHers have said, I bet there would have been Jane Smiley fans lining up to give Waterwheel a home if they had known that she needed a home.

[Vandy]

@equinelaw;3167263

No. Thats the point–she not only knew all the options but also knew all the risks and wrote 2 books about it. In fact, she probably influenced a LOT of people to NOT do just what she did:) We KNOW for a fact she knew the options and risks becuase she told us all about it over the years.

Thats why some of us see hypocracy and irony in the situation. She knew exactly what she was doing and sis it anyway while writing tales about why it souldn’t be done.

Thank you! I think that is the point a lot of us are stuck on.

Yes, I have sold horses, and I naturally I love those instances when I make money selling them - it’s part of my job. I haven’t, however, ever sold a horse for $1,000 at an auction. As for me, and IMO most responsible horse owners/trainers, we try to sell the ones who have promise to succeed in the way their new owners are hoping for. The broken down/useless ones I occasionally give away to good homes, but more often keep and support myself. Could I sell them for $1,000 at an auction instead? Yes, probably, but I have major issues with that. I am the one on the other end of the equation who buys them for $1,000 at an auction :lol:

Yes, I know authors aren’t always wealthy, but I can guarantee you that Jane Smiley is a lot better off financially that I have ever been.

[BeastieSlave]

[QUOTE=ravenclaw;3167323]
I read A Thousand Acres. I think it is overrated. Some parts are interesting, but overall I thought it was pretty boring and slow.[/QUOTE]

For a long time I thought it was just me… I wasn’t that impressed either.

[equinelaw]

I used to give people copies Horse Heaven to introduce them to the world of possibilities of what can happen when you let a horse go. It was that good at covering the subject.

Otherwise, I love her work and I think Moo! got me through 2 years of grad school becuase it was sooo true it made me laugh instead of scream.

I think she knew–she just didn’t realize we would all know and she is acting no better then a BYB breeder who figured out then rasing horses isn’t all fun and games and profits.

The differance is that she had a WORLD of options and her lame excuse of selling her for a broodmare to reduce the population is clear evidence, to me, that she was not prepared to be found out or called out on it.

Or maybe I just misread the books and the point was that the people who dumped and forgot thier horses were the heros? Maybe I just read what I wanted:confused: When you write you influence people. You reap what you write:)

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=summerhorse;3166993]
Totally agree!

ETA: While the upset price at most TB auctions (most not all) is $1,000 the KB’s generally wait and go back to the barns and clean up the horses that didn’t sell. Every year some rescues manage to get some of these but of course they can’t save them all. [/QUOTE]

I think irrelevant whether there are “KBs” lurking in the wings of the Barretts January Mixed Sale or not. When a horse RNAs or no-sales at an auction, it does not automatically become the property of the kill-buyers. It is property of the owner who consigned the horse. The owner can do whatever they want with the horse-- take it home, sell it private treaty, etc.

Why is everyone assuming Smiley would have automatically left the mare off with a dealer if she no-saled? That’s really more the exception than the rule.

[Reynard_Ridge]

@equinelaw;3167263

No. Thats the point–she not only knew all the options but also knew all the risks and wrote 2 books about it. In fact, she probably influenced a LOT of people to NOT do just what she did:) We KNOW for a fact she knew the options and risks because she told us all about it over the years.

Thats why some of us see hypocrisy and irony in the situation. She knew exactly what she was doing and sis it anyway while writing tales about why it souldn’t be done.

Agreed. I also don’t have a problem with people buying and selling horses. It’s a business. But “hypocrisy” and “irony” are exactly how I view this situation. How I feel about her writing style is not all that relevant to the topic at hand, but I can say that the sentiments she writes about, and the way she lives her life don’t appear to be jiving; in a way that is incredibly disappointing to me.

How can you write about caring for and being responsible for horses, and then dump a pregnant, not very high quality mare at auction? Placing the mare in a good home would certainly have been a viable alternative, although, really, for someone with Jane Smiley’s resources, how hard would it have been to find a viable retirement home, or pay for the mare’s retirement??

As someone who has written publicly about my relationship with my horse, I do think this public discussion is terrific; I see it as calling hypocrisy on the carpet. From my perspective, if the $700 Pony ended up at an auction one day, this board would rip me a new one. And it would be well deserved.

[Wanderluster]

Integrity- firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values.

One word - Fake. :yes:

[I_m_EBO]

You are right about the additional orifice, RR, although I’m sure you’d never do such a thing as dump $700 at an auction.

I imagine JS is not the first writer, or other celebrity, to overlook how fast and thoroughly information travels over the internet. But would Tami Hoag, for example, get such a reaming for the same offense? Probably not since she doesn’t (hardly ever) describe the “thoughts” her featured fictional horses have about whatever happens to pass through their consciousnesses. Pretty expensive lesson for Ms. Smiley, I’d say.

[chai]

Wow. Vali, that was a gusty move…way to go you sassy thing. I didn’t like A Thousand Acres or Barn Blind because the characters were so hard and unappealing. Kind of like her. She made money on the mare, got foals from the mare, BRED the mare, and then ditched her at auction IN Foal?? Nice move, Jane.

[Reynard_Ridge]

@I'm EBO;3167569

RR, although I’m sure you’d never do such a thing as dump $700 at an auction.

And why do you think that? You don’t know me at all in real life. Which I think is part of the point of the thread. People have a perception of me based on my writing. You would expect, based on the way I write about my horse, certain caretaking behaviors. And you would (probably) be shocked if you found out I starved, or mistreated, or was cavalier about her future. Not because you know me in real life, but because of how I write about her.

As a reader of Jane’s Smiley’s work, I have certain expectations of her behavior based on her writing. The manner in which she sold the mare just doesn’t jive with my expectations based on my interpretation of her writing.

(And as a footnote, if you were wondering, the $700 Pony lives in a field in the US, while I live in China - I pay all of her bills, while she grows fat. :lol: )

[equinelaw]

I think thats the real key–that so many people are cluless about how fast information travels! She never thougth she woul.d be the subject of so many threads at all:eek:

I use about 1/10th of what I have learned about information gathering here on COTH, on TLB and Fugly. Many acedemics think I am doing majik:) One day I hope to be up to speed with the rest of the COTH dogs, but for now that fraction is enough to scare the pee out of people:cool:

Some really smart people have no idea that other really smart people can work the web like its sending an e-mail. I don’t think JS thought she would get caught and she ran the horse through under the sale’s barns name.

I am constantly in awe of what COTH dogs dig up when they try. I am not here just for the fun. I am here to learn a whole lot too!

I have learned how to track info down, where to find it archived, thewaybackmachine, IP tagging, all kinds of things people with a PhD and big brains have no clue about:)

And you guys do it without even mentioning names!

[I_m_EBO]

Well, now that you mention it, RR, I don’t know how you treat poor little $700. :eek: But I expect, although you dress your sweet children in chicken suits :lol:, you’re a good mom to all your dependents.

'Sides, should you decide that $700 needed a new home, all you’d have to do is mention it here and there’d be 20,000 people waving virtual money at you. :yes: