So I take it we aren’t allowed to talk about Helglstrand video here?

[dr5627]

I have not read it but a review of “The Gymnasium of the Horse” by Gustav Steinbrecht - which is on the USDF trainer program reading list - has some unsavory quotes.

“The jab with the spur is the strongest and most emphatic influence with the spurs. It gives the horse a momentary, intense pain and, by injuring the skin, causes infection and swelling of the parts involved so that, for some time, the sensitivity at that point is even greater.”

Just because something is “old” or “classical” doesn’t mean it is good.

Review: The Gymnasium of the Horse

[Lunabear1988]

I remember watching a Jeremy Steinberg clinic and he mentioned the same quote out of that book. I’m not 100% on his point as it was a few years ago. But I think I was the same thing like, Yes there’s good things to be learned from the classics but let’s not pretend it was all rosey and kind all the time either.

[SamBee]

@stillgoing

At first I was surprised to read this about Klimke, then not so much – I’d watch videos of him riding and I always felt the horse wasn’t “right” or really happy or relaxed…this explains it. I think much more of this kind of thing happens than anyone wants to admit – on the local level as well.

Alerich competed in his first Grand Prix at age 7- something that causes outrage today. People always want to put the old masters on a pedestal but they weren’t perfect either.

[Knights_Mom]

If the general public reads all these stories they will suggest horses not be ridden at all.

[libgrrl]

Plenty of folks already are

[Cowboy_Girl]

This statement is being made totally out of context.
“Wet saddle blankets make good horses” means putting in the time and hours in the saddle needed to achieve fitness, muscle memory, learning and responsiveness to the aids, it means riding outside the area doing lots of different things and different experiences. This requires actual work by both the rider and the horse (like going to the gym or learning sport,) and both are going to work up a productive sweat due to both brain learning an physical learning.
It does not mean running a horse into the ground and making him dead of exhaustion day in day out.
It is the opposite of showing up at the barn, petting and grooming and feeding cookies and spending 20 minutes of actual time in the saddle and calling it training.
I saddle long yearlings and pony them everywhere. They can learn to walk out, carry my lunch and see the world. They learn the horse-human-riding process in interesting and look forward to it from a young age. And their saddle blankets get wet.

[sascha]

@Knights_Mom

If the general public reads all these stories they will suggest horses not be ridden at all

Which is why our collective act needs to have been cleaned up years ago. I hope this documentary spurs (haha) on many facilities and trainers and Joe Q Horse Rider to clean up and stay clean. That goes for judging, test writing, etc. too!

@stillgoing I remember clearly my feeling of deep disappointment when I saw him at the WDC in ?1986? And when I saw Anky in 1995, similar but different feeling - like the horse was an automaton (apart from the expression in the non-existent halt) - and there was no real 2-way communication going on.

[sascha]

@Cowboy_Girl

“Wet saddle blankets make good horses” means putting in the time and hours in the saddle needed to achieve fitness, muscle memory, learning and responsiveness to the aids, it means riding outside the area doing lots of different things and different experiences

No. This is what it means to YOU. This is clearly NOT what it means to many, many western ‘trainer’ types because not only do they do it, they talk about how their ceaseless lathering up of horses day after day is what makes good training. It’s disgusting and it’s definitely a thing whether you want it to be or not I wish it weren’t.

[Knights_Mom]

@sascha

@Cowboy_Girl

“Wet saddle blankets make good horses” means putting in the time and hours in the saddle needed to achieve fitness, muscle memory, learning and responsiveness to the aids, it means riding outside the area doing lots of different things and different experiences

No. This is what it means to YOU. This is clearly NOT what it means to many, many western ‘trainer’ types because not only do they do it, they talk about how their ceaseless lathering up of horses day after day is what makes good training. It’s disgusting and it’s definitely a thing whether you want it to be or not I wish it weren’t.

I have a personal training preference when it comes to my horses: I don’t sweat them up.

When I speak on this people look at me like I’m crazy for coco puffs. And while I think it’s fine to sometimes get a light sweat under the pad, I just see no reason to make a horse sweat profusely - including bulging neck veins or foam. Unless you’re doing a galloping sport like racing or eventing I don’t see the need for a heavy sweat.

[spotnnotfarm]

See, we all have such different experiences. I am pretty entrenched in the western performance industry and I have literally never heard anyone discuss or take pleasure in lathering a horse up day after day. Do some get lathered up on some days, yes, but I have seen plenty of dressage horses with lather and veins popping out of their neck.

The definition I have always heard of wet saddle blankets is actually riding, and giving your horse a purpose or a job. It is riding often, not one day a week. Actually teaching the horse something so it is a good broke horse that enjoys it’s job. An exhausted horse does no good for anyone…

[VodkaRedbullx2]

Yeah. How do we speak out when judges endorse them and they will sue you for libel?!?

[Knights_Mom]

Libel only counts if what you’re writing is untrue. And for famous people, there is an expectation of negative criticism

[VodkaRedbullx2]

We are already there with celeste, thw, consent based riding and the extremism in the ecvm groups putting horses down for this stuff.

My understand of it is (from following these people on fb) In order to say “yes” the horse has to be able to say “no”. So the horse gives “consent” if they stand at the mounting block freely without you climbing up and them not moving …

It’s so bizarre, and extreme. Imagine 200 years ago needing for horse to get to town to buy food. Would you stay home and starve if your horse said no?

[Knights_Mom]

Apples and oranges. Nowadays, our survival is not at stake.

[Bluey]

“What you do when no one is watching is the true measure of your character” applies to so much, including working with animals, here horses.

[VodkaRedbullx2]

I’ve seen local trainers go at each other over drugging rumors. I think it’s a hornets nest most people don’t want to kick.

I don’t see any judges speaking out opinions on Helgstrand either. Some of the most vocal judges are really quiet right now. I mean they will publicly endorse their favorite riders on facebook but can’t say “wow, this abuse is terrible and wrong”.

I would love to see judges stand up - even just a simple link share on their Facebook pages saying this abuse is wrong.

[Manni01]

My personal strategy and I don’t complain so far. I try to avoid to buy horses trained by somebody else. for years I bred my own horses because I didn’t trust anybody.

I try to do all the training myself and I also try to become a member of the herd of my horses. I spend a lot of time with them and if it takes more time then it does. I usually never actively force them into anything, I simply try to do it over and over again over a period of time until it works…

If I look for a trainer I look at the other students and how they improve. then I watch the trainer riding and then I tell the trainer that I don’t trust professionals….
I never ever leave horses with a trainer instead I try to watch as much as possible.

If I have the feeling the trainer wants to push the horse too much or unjust I stop him….

I admit this way you don’t make it to the Olympics, but you have horses who stay mentally sound and pretty healthy for a long time and who don’t try to buck you off and you can have a lot of fun with them!!!

[VodkaRedbullx2]

I love that strategy. I buy young too! So much easier.

[Manni01]

Just asking if your horse says no, I guess it’s scared of you….

[libgrrl]

Some of the R+ dog (and now horse) training groups suggest that it is unethical to ride.