So I take it we aren’t allowed to talk about Helglstrand video here?

[VodkaRedbullx2]

I have no idea I have only seem glimmers of the concept on facebook but I think that is one of their thoughts.

[VodkaRedbullx2]

So if I put a bucket of grain on my mounting block and the horse comes over is that consent?

[libgrrl]

No – like literally don’t get on at all. I’m less well acquainted with the “consent based” folks that do ride.

[Knights_Mom]

@VodkaRedbullx2

I’ve seen local trainers go at each other over drugging rumors. I think it’s a hornets nest most people don’t want to kick.

I don’t see any judges speaking out opinions on Helgstrand either. Some of the most vocal judges are really quiet right now. I mean they will publicly endorse their favorite riders on facebook but can’t say “wow, this abuse is terrible and wrong”.

I would love to see judges stand up - even just a simple link share on their Facebook pages saying this abuse is wrong.

If you’re a USEF judge there are certain limitations to what you can say I’ll wager

[Manni01]

And that might be the result of this . There are people who abuse horses for profit, but there are also people who know nothing about horses and simply look at them as large cuddle bears….
Both types of people are bad for horses……

[libgrrl]

It was coming already, I think. The really hardcore R+ trainers (dog and horse) are really something else.

[Scribbler]

I have done R plus. It’s really great for ground work and tricks and teaching a horse to learn. It is very limited in terms of how it works under saddle, you can teach whoa! effectively but that’s about it.

Riding requires pressure and release cues, though they can evolve to be very minimal.

IME many people who gravitate towards pure R plus either have horses that aren’t suitable to ride or don’t really want to ride themselves that much. Fear or pain or physical issues.

So it makes sense that pure R plus folks have a tendency to stay on the ground and eventually decide riding is not important or even wrong or cruel.

[Djones]

@Knights_Mom

I have a personal training preference when it comes to my horses: I don’t sweat them up.

When I speak on this people look at me like I’m crazy for coco puffs. And while I think it’s fine to sometimes get a light sweat under the pad, I just see no reason to make a horse sweat profusely - including bulging neck veins or foam. Unless you’re doing a galloping sport like racing or eventing I don’t see the need for a heavy sweat.

do not ever ride in the South between late May and early October. Everything sweats. My eyeballs even sweat, I think.

[fivestrideline]

The horses sweat just standing in the pasture!

Also, never working up a real sweat besides under the saddle makes me wonder how one would build muscle and cardiovascular fitness - yes a lot can be accomplished in low impact low intensity exercise, but unless that’s the limit of your riding life you’re headed up a creek without a paddle.

[lenapesadie]

@Djones

My eyeballs even sweat, I think.

Hard to say. When you’re sweating so much you can’t see, is that your eyeballs sweating or your eyeballs shutting down due to overheating. Nobody knows. We just want back inside the AC.

[frugalannie]

@Cowboy_Girl, I learned it the way you did. It’s not about lathering the horse up, or getting bulging veins It’s about putting in the time so the saddle pad gets wet, not the whole horse necessarily (although that happens in the summer heat). I learned to train from some old guys, and not western.

This is quite distinct from “rode hard and put up wet” BTW.

[sascha]

@lenapesadie

When you’re sweating so much you can’t see, is that your eyeballs sweating or your eyeballs shutting down due to overheating. Nobody knows.

This is brilliant and I’m pretty sure it’s the second option - eyeballs shutting down due to overheating.

Also, don’t bother with Southern Ontario in July where musical groups from SC come to play outdoor concerts and declare repeatedly, “It’s hotter here than at home!”

I would think Knights_Mom may mean the over-working that can cause a horse to sweat/nerve sweat in any weather and not just the sweating from a bit of normal exercise and excessive heat and humidity. I may also be wrong on that. There are definitely people who would rather their horses don’t sweat while working at all … which means they don’t do anything all summer.

[2tempe]

Back to the topic at hand:
https://eurodressage.com/2023/11/29/helgstrand-excluded-danish-team-until-1-january-2025?fbclid=IwAR1TsnSdshO170fTXpUsqmK1lUpMPjYy94_M1FMf4MrsJMqyXmETAblJs48

I suspect many of us wish it was longer, but it is significant.

[Knights_Mom]

@Djones

@Knights_Mom

I have a personal training preference when it comes to my horses: I don’t sweat them up.

When I speak on this people look at me like I’m crazy for coco puffs. And while I think it’s fine to sometimes get a light sweat under the pad, I just see no reason to make a horse sweat profusely - including bulging neck veins or foam. Unless you’re doing a galloping sport like racing or eventing I don’t see the need for a heavy sweat.

do not ever ride in the South between late May and early October. Everything sweats. My eyeballs even sweat, I think.

LOL no. Clearly riding in a desert, on Venus or in Florida carries quite the sweat situation. My comment was geared for those of us in more agreeable weather situations.

[Knights_Mom]

@fivestrideline

The horses sweat just standing in the pasture!

Also, never working up a real sweat besides under the saddle makes me wonder how one would build muscle and cardiovascular fitness - yes a lot can be accomplished in low impact low intensity exercise, but unless that’s the limit of your riding life you’re headed up a creek without a paddle.

I believe it’s not what you do but rather how you do it and how often. My horse is rather cardio fit yet we don’t ride him into the ground.

[Knights_Mom]

I even described the vein bulging, foaming sweat.

[sascha]

I get it! My Little Nutjob (some people have My Little Pony lol) pops her veins all the time and more in the heat. She loves the heat. I do not. In this respect we are not well matched. I’m complete jelly and she’s raring to “go do something fun.” Horses are almost as weird as cats!

[lenapesadie]

I don’t particularly have a problem with horses being exercised and sweating bc of it. Nor do I have a problem with horses being ridden in such a way they don’t sweat much. I do have a problem with high summer heat though! Misery for me and the horse!

Nor do I have a problem with more woo training methods that focus on the horse being totally relaxed and willing at each step before progressing to the next step. I myself trained my horse to reliably line up and stand at the mounting block for mounting without the need to hold him in place via the reins. It wasn’t particularly difficult (or fast tbh). If that makes me a consent based horse person

I do have a problem with the cruelty exposed in the videos that are the topic of this post. Horses, like other animals including humans, deserve to be treated with kindness and respect.

[Mardi1]

@foursocks

Intent is irrelevant. It is 100% legal for a private company to not publish things or repress information it feels are not in its best interests.

I’m not talking about legality.
There is nothing to be gained by anyone trying to suppress the Helgestrand story from publication.
Their desire and attempt to hide it would become public soon enough, and COTH’s reputation would be damaged. Readers expect to be truthfully informed, no matter who’s involved.
Thankfully despite what the thread title says, COTH seems very willing to cover the story.

[libgrrl]

Moderator for this particular R+ group (began with dogs, but they have recently started addressing horses) tends to dissuade folks from riding. Said that horses probably don’t appreciate us in our “meat suits” hopping aboard. They seem to encourage folks with horses to do liberty work, I guess.