So I take it we aren’t allowed to talk about Helglstrand video here?

[Unfforgettable]

@Graymaresrule

I tried out a horse at a former olympian’s barn and questioned the very tight noseband and flash. I was told that it was better to have it tight than to have it loose and need it.

I once worked with an absolutely gorgeous TB conformation hunter, looked like a very well bred warmblood. His owner boarded with me and drove three hours south once or twice a month to work and show with her well known hunter trainer (also a judge).

The horse tended to be bracey on the bit, and I loosened the caveson compared to what the other trainer told her to do. The horse relaxed, his stride opened up and everything went so much better.
Until she went down for a lesson with the hunter trainer, who first complimented her on how nicely the horse was moving…and then walked over and cranked down the caveson. When she asked why, his exact words were “In my presence, all cavesons will be adjusted this way.” and the horse went back to being tight and tense.

[pluvinel]

@Cat_Tap

I had a big falling out with a very popular trainer.

You are not alone. I went to a “name trainer” at the recommendation of an international rider. I had a 7 yr old stallion that everyone drooled over.

I walked into the barn to ask where to park trailer to unload and trainer was yelling and insulting the barn help. Hmm…bad karma vibes.

I get on the horse do everything trainer asks, but he wants me to put draw reins on horse and asks to ride horse. This was in the hey day of roll-kur. I said no. Paid for my lesson, said good-bye and never returned.

I believe said trainer has now returned to his country of origin across the atlantic.

[Knights_Mom]

I’m guessing I know that trainer. His indoor had flags from around the world hung up.

[2tempe]

UPDATED Chron of Horse article. Below is cut and pasted from the article:

DRF also announced last week that it will cease all collaboration with Helgstrand Events, including hosting the Danish national championships for seniors, under-25 and para-dressage riders scheduled for May 2024 and the Nordic Baltic Championships for dressage, show jumping, para-dressage and vaulting scheduled for June 2024.

The DRF has asked the Fédération Equestre Internationale to do the same, and “reassess the agreement based on the two broadcasts,” for an upcoming FEI Nations Cup scheduled in May 2024.

“The FEI takes all allegations of horse abuse very seriously and at all times the welfare of the horse must be paramount,” the FEI said in a statement issued following the release of the program.

“The FEI will however collaborate closely with the Danish National Federation, and there is a mutual recognition of decisions and any sanctions imposed,” the statement read. “We will continue to communicate as the situation develops, and want to assure the equestrian community, our stakeholders and the public, that we are rigorously addressing this issue.”*

The impact on them is spreading, and I, for one, am glad to see it. Maybe, just maybe there will be some real impact. I RARELY agree with Dressage Hub, but she (whose name escapes me) did say that shows should go back to allowing cameras, media in the schooling rings and I have said before that more attention needs to be given to the show environment…

[Knights_Mom]

It’s a start. I can only assume they have to.

[quietann]

I have a friend who did bit check at a number of recognized dressage shows in the area. This was in the days when bit check was actually a true bit check. She wore gloves and changed them out for every horse. She also would slip fingers into the noseband and flash strap to check for tightness, and said many were so tight she could not get a finger in easily. She was not slow to contact the TD if there was an issue - but kept getting told to “stop bugging the TD.”

Apparently her attentiveness to the rules really upset a lot of competitors, and eventually she was no longer doing bit checks.

One thing that really annoyed her is that if she asked for the flash to be loosened so she could check the bit, it would be cranked right back up the moment she was done. With bit checks after the tests, the horses were done and only needed to be ridden or led back to their trailer or stall – but she thought riders were scared to let them relax.

Meanwhile, Lola, my new pony, is being ridden and trained with no noseband at all. Yes, she fusses with the bit some – but that’s feedback we want to know.

[Cat_Tap]

Just a side note to my above post. The trainer had a very strong German accent. I knew how to speak German but couldn’t figure out what a “halfalef” was that he kept yelling at me. Finally realized he was saying “half halt left”.

[atr]

I had a dickens of a time with one German trainer with deciphering what he meant by “half halt and back to the track.” After much rolling of eyes at my apparent stupidity, I finally worked out that he was saying “volte” not “halt.”

[skydy]

This opinion piece makes some very good (and some shocking) points.

Nadja Maria Bieler: "When the Money Decides and the Horse is Forgotten"

[strangewings]

This summarizes the whole issue in a nutshell, IMHO:

“So when I hear journalists in this hot-potato debate ask ‘Is it even possible to take a horse to the highest level without abuse ?’ I am appalled. How did that even become a question to ask?”

[MadTrotter]

But tell me, why is the average insured horse in Denmark then with an expected lifespan of 9 years? Yes, horses are on average put down due to injury at 9 years of age.

What in the ever loving f#%&?!?!

I’m on my phone but maybe someone fluent in Danish can translate that linked article: https://detdyreetiskeraad.dk/udtalelser/udtalelse/pub/hent-fil/publication/udtalelse-om-brug-af-heste-til-sport-2023

[Knights_Mom]

@strangewings

This summarizes the whole issue in a nutshell, IMHO:

“So when I hear journalists in this hot-potato debate ask ‘Is it even possible to take a horse to the highest level without abuse ?’ I am appalled. How did that even become a question to ask?”

Yes it is possible. But it’s never quick. Those top riders are way past possible. They are seeking QUICK.

THAT’S the problem.

[skydy]

I think the author was speaking about pushing young horses up the levels. That seemed to me to be the theme of the article.

[Cally0826]

When my mare was green, I was boarding her at a place with a trainer. She insisted I use draw reins when riding and side reins when lunging AT ALL TIMES due to TIME. The trainer did not tolerate one stride of my horse having her head up and said that she could not be “too round.”

I don’t show and have no interest in it, so time wasn’t an issue for me. I moved her somewhere else that did not have a trainer and brought one in for lessons. My horse and I are much happier. I will also add that she is steady in the contact now from years of consistent work focusing on suppleness and strengthening the core and hind end. It can be intimidating when you have a forcelful personality with “expertise” telling you what to do with your horse. Always do what is best for your horse.

[Knights_Mom]

You made the right choice!

[Cally0826]

Thank you! I’m glad it worked out the way it did. There aren’t a lot of options in my area.

[SamBee]

@Cally0826

It can be intimidating when you have a forcelful personality with “expertise” telling you what to do with your horse. Always do what is best for your horse.

Never be afraid to question “expertise” that seems dubious or abusive, especially when the “expert” is self-proclaimed

[Edre]

I think this ties in nicely to the point “Well EVERYONE does it why focus on AH?” or the people who, while not finding what AH did, or how he rides OK, have sort of rolled their eyes at the point of sanctioning him in some way, or even find this “he’s just one rider, what will this do about ALL the riders who do it”.

It’s hard to question expertise if you don’t know that there is something you should question - but if even the biggest names of our sport are not above questioning, investigation, and repercussions, hopefully we see this trickle down and help people realize that just because “I see it all the time” or “everyone rides that way” it is still not okay and these are questions they can, and should ask, and things they can, and should be aware of.

[snaffle1987]

I think this goes hand in what with what those at the upper end of the scale of the sport deem “abuse”. Because clearly certain aspects of “training” that are abusive have become perfectly acceptable to them, their ownership, and the clients who shop with them.

Let’s be honest; The NDA’s are not to hide things from those shopping in their barns. It’s to hide things from the general public which would create a sh*t storm like this whistleblower currently has.

From here; I think we also need to look at the grooms and riders at these farms. They have been strangled by NDA’s but are also still taking the jobs; intrigued by the esteem of such establishments and BNT’s while being brainwashed into believing that what is being done is not abuse, but “training” . How do we protect these people from Billionaire lawyers for reporting abuse? Its clear in this documentary they are well aware of what is going on in this particular barn, are ashamed of it, but would lose their entire lives if they ever opened their mouth to protect the horse.

Proof is in the pudding because nothing would’ve happened, he would’ve never been banned from shows and the Olympics had this not turned into a big deal that went viral through an undercover documentary and in all honesty; I bet that documentary never uncovered the worst of it.

Sadly, this isn’t just a problem for the Dressage world. It touches all of it: Western Pleasure, Reining, Hunters, Show Jumpers, Eventers, etc. This is what happens with Success and Extreme money go hand in hand. People will do anything to win and produce winners and be revered.

This isn’t a Helgestrand problem. It’s a horse-sports problem and what we have deemed as tolerable to produce something that is mechanic and beyond the norm.
Start live streaming the entirety of all warm up areas at the shows would be a start. Lets see it. All of it.

[smoofox]

@Cally0826

When my mare was green, I was boarding her at a place with a trainer. She insisted I use draw reins when riding and side reins when lunging AT ALL TIMES due to TIME. The trainer did not tolerate one stride of my horse having her head up and said that she could not be “too round.”

I don’t show and have no interest in it, so time wasn’t an issue for me. I moved her somewhere else that did not have a trainer and brought one in for lessons. My horse and I are much happier. I will also add that she is steady in the contact now from years of consistent work focusing on suppleness and strengthening the core and hind end. It can be intimidating when you have a forcelful personality with “expertise” telling you what to do with your horse. Always do what is best for your horse.

I have audited a few Gerd Heuschmann clinics… and the one theme he constantly insists on is saying/thinking/feeling “I have TIME”. To get things right, to help that horse understand… has no deadline.

@snaffle1987

Sadly, this isn’t just a problem for the Dressage world. It touches all of it: Western Pleasure, Reining, Hunters, Show Jumpers, Eventers, etc. This is what happens with Success and Extreme money go hand in hand. People will do anything to win and produce winners and be revered.

I had a good friend who worked at a very well known cutting horse/reined cow horse barn… and she eventually quit as she could longer stomach the horses being loped (part of her job) in endless, mind-numbing circles before the trainer even got on them - to do more of the same. No trotting or bending or riding out on the hills to stretch and relax… lope, lope, lope, reverse, lope, lope, lope. She was chastised for letting a horse come back to a walk for a break without the trainer or his assistant’s approval. No understanding or feel allowed - just robotic circles.