So Kincade's suck. WHY??

[talkofthetown]

I’m saddle shopping on a reeeeally small budget. A few hundred is all I’m prepared to spend at the moment, as I wasn’t expecting to need a new saddle right now. I’ve found a few older Stubbens online that are the correct size and pretty cheap, but wanted to see what I could find locally before dealing with shipping/trials/shipping. I was actually told “do not put this saddle on your horse ever again” so…I’m pretty much stuck with bareback until I can buy something new.

I found a Kincade for $150 obo. I recognized the name but didn’t know much about it, but liked the price tag. A quick search on here didn’t give me much information, other than “STAY AWAY”. I’m fine with that advice, but I’d like to know why. If it’s just a matter of personal preference, or cheap quality, I might be willing to pick it up (providing it fits) just to have something to ride in until I can save up for a better saddle. Just looking for more information!

[beowulf]

Kincade is very cheaply made, from very low quality leather. We phased out of selling Kincade at the tack store I worked at because of the low quality and lack of customer satisfaction with the product. The leather is very stiff and wears quickly, and also discolors - the saddle itself is very hard and uncomfortable for horses in my experience, it’s made with cheap foam that disintegrates quickly.

One of the worst memories I have of a customer returning a Kincade with us, she complained the saddle was lumpy and hard… we refunded her – the owner of the tack store was pretty generous and always looking to forward employee education so he let us dissect it – we cut into the bottom panel and a mushroom cloud of disintegrated styrofoam-like material gushed out - saddle was lumpy because the foam in the saddle had disintegrated and collected in one spot… And that saddle was less than a year old.

It will last you a few months, not a life time.

IMHO, pushing the saddle budget up is always worth it - it’s like buying a car… You can get the cheap $500 Ford Focus down the road that will get you from A to B now… or you can up your budget and get the $2,000 Civic after a few months of saving that will take you from A to B and outlive your family…

The best thing you can do for your horse on a saddle fitting budget is involve a saddle fitter and find an older used Passier or Stubben or Kieffer, who command big bucks brand new but trickle down to the $500-1000 range once they’ve gotten a few years on them. They usually fit a wide variety of horses too and most of them are wool.

[dappled]

Yes, Kincade’s suck.

I’m sure people will tell you this all day long, but you’d be better of buying an older used saddle that has proven to stand the test of time. Brands that come to mind are County, Stubben, Passier…

You could definitely find older models in the low hundreds.

[Dramapony_misty]

Poor construction, poor quality materials, and (from this review) poor flocking which could negatively impact your horse.

http://www.horsetackreview.com/review-display/10524.html

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=talkofthetown;8588889]

I found a Kincade for $150 obo. I recognized the name but didn’t know much about it, but liked the price tag. A quick search on here didn’t give me much information, other than “STAY AWAY”. I’m fine with that advice, but I’d like to know why. If it’s just a matter of personal preference, or cheap quality, I might be willing to pick it up (providing it fits) just to have something to ride in until I can save up for a better saddle. Just looking for more information![/QUOTE]

The problem with picking it up “just to have something to ride in” is that because of the cheap quality, you may actually do some extensive damage to your horse, which is going to make you pretty upset about wanting to save $200 as you battle through months of fixing the issues that arise from a poorly fitted saddle.

Nobody at the barn has a saddle you can borrow for a month or two while you save up a little more?

For a “few hundred” ($300? $400?) I would be far more inclined to get an older County, Passier, Stubben, etc. It may need a re-flocking, but that can be remedied by a half pad while you save for that expense, and in the meantime you have a saddle with much better leather and structure than a Kincade.

Honestly, I’d even go for a Wintec over a Kincade.

[kashmere]

A friend of mine got one ages ago as kind of a beater trail saddle. Did not work. It appeared to fit decently, but there were some strange pressure points for the horse and he made it clear it was not comfortable for him.

[aaka208]

My parents, who know absolutely nothing about horses, got one for me when I was a young teen. Long story short: I hated that saddle, and so did my horse.

[GoForAGallop]

OP, if you share what you’re looking for in terms of both horse and rider fit, as well as budget, I’m happy to keep an eye out for you. I’m saddle hunting right now for a bit of an odd saddle, which basically just involves combing over listings, so I see a lot!

[talkofthetown]

Thank you for the information. I will absolutely steer clear of the brand!

Like I said, I’m leaning towards an older Stubben anyways, and have my eye one a few online. Haven’t found any locally yet. I just wanted to explore the local options first.

I keep my horse at home, no selection of barn saddles to use.

I’m also currently dealing with back issues, so a) I do understand how damaging a poorly fitting saddle can be, and b) most of my “extra” money is going towards getting my mare pain free and back in shape. Hence why I can’t up the budget (for now). Which is fine, because I’m giving her a break from under saddle work until her back feels better.

So I’m not in a huge rush to make a new purchase, as I want to find a well-fitting saddle and I could use the extra time to save more cash. On the other hand, I feel a slight bit of urgency because I am completely saddle-less until I buy something.

[betonbill]

I just picked up an older Stubben on EBay for cheap. It’s a brand that I’ve had in the past and looked to be in good condition. It’s not here yet, but I’m looking forward to trying it. I like Stubbens on my horse, so I’m not terribly worried about the fit. I think I got a deal.

[talkofthetown]

GoForAGallop, thanks for the offer!

Rider fit:
17.5 or 18 seat
Fine with the old/hard/flat style, doesn’t need to be a la-z-boy
I constantly fight having a chair seat, so anything that would remotely draw my leg forward is out. (It’s a conformation thing, I’ve always had this problem; different horses, saddles, etc)

Horse fit:
I’m still learning and experimenting, but from what I know and from what a local trainer has recommended, she needs a medium or wider gullet. Needs plenty of room at the shoulder/wither area. Has a straight-ish back. She’s a little pear shaped, but not very extreme.

Would like to keep it under $400, but the cheaper the better obviously. :lol: I know that’s not a lot to work with, but that’s what is realistic for me at the moment.

[caper]

A saddle is the most important piece of equipment you will need. Get a piece of junk and it can affect your horse in a negative way and can even injure him.

Save your $$$ till you can afford something that fits him well. I started out with a used saddle from a tack shop. I believe it was a Stubben Tristan. Once the horse started to muscle up more in work it became evident it not longer was the best fit. I traded it up to a used Passier. That worked for a few more years. Always upgrading to better fit and better quality.

Then once I was committed to the sport I broke down and bought a brand new Stubben that fit my current horse.

[talkofthetown]

[QUOTE=caper;8588996]
A saddle is the most important piece of equipment you will need. Get a piece of junk and it can affect your horse in a negative way and can even injure him.

Save your $$$ till you can afford something that fits him well. I started out with a used saddle from a tack shop. I believe it was a Stubben Tristan. Once the horse started to muscle up more in work it became evident it not longer was the best fit. I traded it up to a used Passier. That worked for a few more years. Always upgrading to better fit and better quality.

Then once I was committed to the sport I broke down and bought a brand new Stubben that fit my current horse.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the advice. That’s exactly what I’m doing, saving up and looking for a saddle that will fit correctly. :yes:

[monstrpony]

Have you ever tried a Wintec on your horse? They have a pretty good reputation and you can probably find a used one fairly inexpensively. There’s a used Wintec Pro on the Farm House web site for $500. I rode in one for years and was very happy with it.

Some people claim that the CAIR panels are hard on a horse’s back, but I never had issue with them. Best on a round back, maybe an issue on a less muscled, less round back (if you think of how the CAIR panels work, this makes sense). I think a good fleece half pad or something like a ThinLine would take care of any issues, in any case.

[monstrpony]

Have you ever tried a Wintec on your horse? They have a pretty good reputation and you can probably find a used one fairly inexpensively. There’s a used Wintec Pro on the Farm House web site for $500. I rode in one for years and was very happy with it.

Some people claim that the CAIR panels are hard on a horse’s back, but I never had issue with them. Best on a round back, maybe an issue on a less muscled, less round back (if you think of how the CAIR panels work, this makes sense). I think a good fleece half pad or something like a ThinLine would take care of any issues, in any case.

[MysticOakRanch]

Be careful with some of the older saddles - you state you need a medium to wider gullet - also pay attention to the whole channel between the panels. Many of the older saddles are far too narrow in that area. Ask for a photo of the underside of the saddle - if the panels are set too close together, your horse will have back issues.

I would also look at a used Wintec before I bought a poor quality leather saddle. Or save your money for a few months - if you can go up to $600 to $800, you start looking at some decent older Neidersuiss or Albion saddles that may prove a better fit.

[cleozowner]

OP, if you live somewhere with no saddles and ultimately want to save money–get a back tracing of your horse and send it to a distance fitter (Trumbull Mtn, Panther Run, etc.)–then they can at least tell you what brands/sizes will be a POTENTIAL fit and what will definitely NOT fit your horse. Yeah, it might cost you $100 or $150, but considering how much it would cost you to ship a bunch of saddles back and forth, it will absolutely save you time AND money.

[talkofthetown]

[QUOTE=cleozowner;8589143]
OP, if you live somewhere with no saddles and ultimately want to save money–get a back tracing of your horse and send it to a distance fitter (Trumbull Mtn, Panther Run, etc.)–then they can at least tell you what brands/sizes will be a POTENTIAL fit and what will definitely NOT fit your horse. Yeah, it might cost you $100 or $150, but considering how much it would cost you to ship a bunch of saddles back and forth, it will absolutely save you time AND money.[/QUOTE]

That’s not a bad idea. Would I just go to their website and find instructions for doing the tracing?

[CCRider12]

Buy a Thorowgood;) Wool flocking, changeable gullets, adjustable thigh blocks and billets. You can find the T4 for around $400.00. I have one for my guy that I used until I could afford an upgrade. The saddle fitter adjusted the flocking and it fit great! I found it very comfortable to sit in, and on my pocket too!

[GoForAGallop]

Saddles I’d buy instead of a Kincade, <$500 edition:

17.5" Kieffer, $200: http://www.ebay.com/itm/kieffer-dressage-saddle-/322040320058?hash=item4afb19503a:g:TocAAOSwv9hW5ynL

17.5" County Competitor, $300. Panels do narrow a bit, but that can be adjusted by saddle fitter: http://www.ebay.com/itm/County-Competitor-dressage-saddle-17-5-M-/121932522257?hash=item1c63bea311:g:JlUAAOSwyjBW8SaJ

17.5" BT Crump, $280: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-BT-Crump-All-Purpose-Dressage-Saddle-17-5-Black-long-billets-Made-England-/111929868740?hash=item1a0f8a41c4:g:tYIAAOSwP~tW30Nf

17.5" Berney Brothers, $400. This is a very lovely saddle: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Berney-Brothers-Dressage-Saddle-17-5-M-/162006999835?hash=item25b85ea31b:g:wMEAAOSwQTVV9eIw

18.5" Thorowgood, $350. This is a wool-flocked, English made synthetic. They do ride smaller because of the suede and the deeper seat: http://www.saddlesource.com/thw.html

18" Thorowgood, $450: http://www.saddlesource.com/used00000735.html

17.5" County Competitor, $425, in fantastic shape: http://www.middleburgtack.com/inventory_detail.cfm?ourClientsID=80141603-A1F2-572A-EC75BAC3A11027BA

17.5" Crosby PSG, $350: http://www.middleburgtack.com/inventory_detail.cfm?ourClientsID=253F15FF-E0C3-71DF-3A0E4919BEFD13F6

17.5" Kent Olympic, $300, with adjustable stirrup bars. This right here is actually the bargain of the day, I would grab this if it would fit me. Between being a slightly outdated style and an unknown (but lovely quality) brand, they can’t ask a lot. http://www.middleburgtack.com/inventory_detail.cfm?ourClientsID=C0A0DE0C-5056-A100-04DEDD0D79E63857

Without seeing pictures of your horse, I don’t know that any of these would fit. But they are all certainly better than a Kincade!

I just hit three of the big places I stalk for good deals…Ebay has others, but I stuck with ones that you can buy this instant for that price, not the $4k Antares with 7 days left on the $200 auction that will go for $3k. I personally hate Stubbens, but left them off the list for a more important reason…the old ones are particularly well-known for having the narrowing rear panels, and for hard, lumpy flocking. (New ones are lovely.)