So... Neuro it is

[Sdel]

I’m going to include a few photos to show what a difference the bodywork has made.

These two were taken in August. They are the same session. The top photo was before I started (left side) and the second (right side) was when I finished. The second photo is actually the worst side. They are opposite sides of the horse, but today both sides look like the second photo. The sweat is from having released something via acupressure.

And again…the top photo is how he would stand in August, and the bottom was in November.

[sapvi]

My horse is very very flexible, like too much for his own good. And has very very little muscles on hind and I’m not sure why. Like ok, he’s young and not in active work… But I usually see horses just naturally grow in his age. Instead he’s growing front but hind muscles are non-existent.

We have gait abnormalities and some staggering (though I wouldn’t say it happens often… similar to what I’d expect of normal horse tbh, I’ve seen it maybe <5 times in a year, though most of them were recent…). We don’t have any acute conditions that could be dangerous for him or handler.

[Libby2563]

I skimmed your other thread again and I think unless the symptoms get worse, I would try the PT-type groundwork, handwalking over poles and on varied terrain if available, and letting your horse mature a bit more. Again, it’s hard to tell from afar but some things sound within the realm of normal for a weak young horse. I wouldn’t try riding again until the horse is much stronger. Now if you do all this and there’s no improvement, that would be concerning. But I wouldn’t give up yet.

[sapvi]

Thank you… I have just agreed to do RTG next month (no earlier dates) specifically at the clinics for the neck… So it’s more sure what are we facing exactly. I’ll not ride for now. I was not planning any extensive rides this year anyway, just start of the work… But am ok to delay that. We will be focusing on pole work, I’m discussing with one chiro and one physio who could lead us.

[clburnham11]

Did your guy resent doing some of those exercises in the beginning? do you push through that? My guy is so dysfunctional in the thoracic sling, he hates lateral work one way and belly lifts. I want to help him be more comfortable but not sure about when to stop if he’s clearly uncomfortable

[sapvi]

He is actually extremely sweet during all exercises. He is sweetest horse in the whole barn for the ground work, my couch adores him. So no, I do not think he was/is uncomfortable. He was very clumsy at in-hand “leg yields” but figured it out pretty fast and is now good with it. Probably this mislead us into not investigating the clumsiness more.

[Sdel]

@clburnham11

Did your guy resent doing some of those exercises in the beginning? do you push through that?

Absolutely. When I began I couldn’t even touch my horse between the poll and withers without risking getting bitten. I’d work the muscles with one hand and hold his nose away from me with the other. He could barely back up. Work at a higher gait resulted in rears, bunny hops or bucks. Just walking on a circle on the ground would trigger sneak bite attempts. Now he is content to hold a brush in his teeth instead of try to bite me and I can pretty much touch him anywhere and he backs up with a finger wag. Somewhere along the way he has started to pick up his feet and no longer bunny hops.

I have had severe pelvic misalignment myself, so I’ve been very sympathetic to my gelding. The amount of pain from that was nearly crippling. It was not pleasant to work through. It can still hurt quite a bit, but I have less pain and can go a couple of weeks without pain now.

[IPEsq]

Any chance you are near Munich? There is a vet and rehabilitation practice in that area that may be able to guide you.

[4horses]

“Neuro” is not a diagnosis really. I would look at this from a holistic standpoint. Add selenium and natural vitamin E. Make sure his B vitamin requirements are being met. I was having leg weakness and my B12 was really low. Sometimes my potassium is low as well and that is why I ended up seeing a neurologist. So making sure he has everything he needs nutritionally is a good starting place.

Is EPM an issue where you are? What about Lyme?

I think some imaging may be helpful. However I would definitely look for a 2nd opinion from a vet before I would despair and consider the horse unrideable.

Muscle diseases (Pssm/MFM) can have a very vague presentation. With my mare it is like her muscles get tired and she has a hard time lifting her feet or lifting her head up and that can cause her to trip.

Please do not despair. Since you don’t have a diagnosis other then something might be wrong with your horse, it is too soon to assume that this is career ending.

[sapvi]

I’m in CZ, but depending on the results of the neck examination (we will go on 3.2), trip to Germany is an option.

[sapvi]

I’m trying to think what else it can be but nothing comes to my mind to get hope He doesn’t seem to exhibit any other symptoms of other diseases you mentioned. The only thing he has is hind weakness which is very visible at tail test, and weird (but not to me tbh, was seen only by professional) movement of hinds in trot which is obviously related. He also doesn’t have other Wobbler symptoms though (at least yet): his tail is active and obviously perceptive, he likes scratches around tail and moves the tail accordingly to the scratches, he can also go backwards and relative fast though not perfectly straight.
He had very wrong selenium when bloodwork was done in April. But it’s very common in our area, so we just always add selenium to food when this is detected, and it was fixed completely by July with normal Selenium. I don’t know how long he had low Selenium. I’m afraid I’ve somehow caused it to be honest

[sapvi]

I’ve managed to make a video, though the angle is shitty - not many spots where I could put the camera. It’s not a very successful training either because my horses were closed for several days due to deworming and are far from happy today. But I tried to put poles of different height in ground in different crazy configurations. It’s not really visible much sadly, but the combination of poles is random on purpose and I change it randomly throughout a video. It’s not classic dressage same-distance poles.
Later in video I also try static tail test: this doesn’t seem too bad for me. Dynamic one is much much worse but I couldn’t record it alone. Then I also touch the tail to show that it’s pretty much active, and then I put left leg in front of right leg. I wanted to do second one also but my horse got spooked
I’ve tried also to go backwards through straight lying poles but he couldn’t figure out at all where is the pole behind his hind legs and refused to do it after first few tries

Test 1

[sapvi]

I’ve recorded a video, see comment above. Not sure if it’s possible to judge sth from it.

[FjordBCRF]

@sapvi

But I tried to put poles of different height in ground in different crazy configurations.

@sapvi

combination of poles is random on purpose and I change it randomly throughout a video. It’s not classic dressage same-distance poles.

@sapvi

I’ve tried also to go backwards through straight lying poles but he couldn’t figure out at all where is the pole behind his hind legs and refused to do it after first few tries

Others may disagree, but my approach with Charlie was to start small and easy! Your guy is young so you have to account for the fact that he’s probably not sure what you’re asking for, on top of being in some discomfort.

The goal with pole work is to build up strength, coordination and proprioception. It’s NOT going to be there in the early stages. Heck, when I have my stuff set up for Charlie and the other boarders use it, they are banging and knocking stuff down WAY worse than we are

I started with a single pole. Then added a second, a third etc. I also started with as perfect spacing as I could get so it was easier on him since I know there is a pain element. Then I started with raising the poles/making them uneven etc. Make it fun!

Check those Jec books out! They are VERY prescriptive so youre not just drilling the horse as well with the same thing. It’s a lot of back and forth and different exercises. Here’s one of our workouts as an example; we have a bridge to do the step up/downs and up and overs.

It took Charlie some time to really figure out the pole straddle too but that’s helped with proprioception

I’ve always done groundwork and liberty, but we really amped it up last year going through everything to keep things fresh. We learned how to push the ball last week and he’s had an absolute blast with it. All of this type of work has been amazing for bonding and communicating with each other. I figure at some point, riding isnt going to be an option for us, and the groundwork is ALMOST as rewarding as the riding. So I’ve been challenging myself to make the most out of it and have found a lot of laughter in it.

IMG_8258

[sapvi]

Oh, I’ve done it for video, normally I put like normal amount of poles in some humane configurations I started with one here and was just adding (not in video) and than again removing just to record how his legs react.

[FjordBCRF]

@sapvi

normally I put like normal amount of poles in some humane configurations

On the pole work, I have also bought two ebooks from Horses of Zachanox for configuration ideas! The one is only using two poles, and the other is for multiple. Those are helpful too!

[IPEsq]

Look into https://www.pferdekoerper-in-funktion.com/

[TWH_Girl]

I would not be comfortable retiring a 3 yr old horse based on his reaction to tail pulls. It doesn’t sound like there is even a clear diagnosis made yet. And no diagnostics?

[sapvi]

Well I do not care devices to make a myelogram in my pocket sadly… The vet was pretty dismissive and saying that tests in clinics would be a waste of money.

I scheduled the clinics full check but closest date is 4.2. I am considering to cancel it and go to Germany instead but that would make it even more expensive and the date even more unknown. I am still not sure what I am doing exactly.

[TWH_Girl]

@sapvi

I don’t know what to do. I’m not even sure what I’m asking exactly. Is there any hope? Or should I just face the reality and prepare I never ride for many years? (It’s already my second horse with other one older and retired… So I’m basically supporting two unridden horses and really have no financial and time capacity for the third one).

You asked what to do. That’s totally up to you but to answer your question- yes, there is hope. And another vet opinion and finding out what is going on would be helpful. Not sure what else there is to say. Most people who’ve retired neuro horses have done so after extensive work up and worsening of condition. What even are his symptoms?