So... Neuro it is

[sapvi]

Hello, some time ago I asked about neuro horse vs bad balance horse. I’ve finally managed to get the vet with neuro qualifications to get to us.

Well, according to her, it’s 2 out of 4 on neuro scale. He’s 3 y.o., and my dream of raising a nice riding horse with who I can spend at least 20 years is pretty much shattered, just as so many others… Vet said he COULD improve if he gets more muscles… But that he also could become worse. She didn’t say explicitly never to ride him but it was pretty implicit in what she said. She proposed to try to work more on his muscles and to repeat neuro exam in 6 months.

I have no actionable information. I spend 10k euros on a horse that probably will be just pasture ornament. I spend tons on money on him all the time because he has top care.

I don’t know what to do. I’m not even sure what I’m asking exactly. Is there any hope? Or should I just face the reality and prepare I never ride for many years? (It’s already my second horse with other one older and retired… So I’m basically supporting two unridden horses and really have no financial and time capacity for the third one).

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Oh wow. I’m so sorry.

Maybe before getting too far ahead of yourself, consider getting a second opinion from another vet?

Did they take images or do other diagnostics that you could send to a second practitioner to evaluate?

[sapvi]

No, but the reaction to the tail pull was very strong… Actually worse than when I performed the test myself like a month or so ago. However it’s also possible I pulled less than the vet - not sure.

I was told by the vet I’d just waste money trying to do diagnostics because the it’s not treated in our country anyway. She also doesn’t believe that surgery works (though in American sources I read different opinion… though many also just euthanize such horses).

I’m trying to get in touch with some hospital in Germany where at least they do the surgeries and maybe could guide me which images I can request and what to take care of that they actually can be used for proper diagnosis.

[Sdel]

I would work on the muscles and re-evaluate. Muscles can affect the nerves a lot, and in ways that are not really noticed, and when they are addressed the nerves get relief and it becomes obvious. I’d also be very hesitant to just accept a neuro diagnosis with no additional diagnostics to support a reason behind being neuro.

FWIW: I have a gelding that has been “neuro”. Very tight rope walk/posture and I have a picture of him standing with one hind on top of the other. He put the foot there himself and stood there for well over 10 minutes. He has improved tremendously with postural exercises and good bodywork. If you haven’t invested in chiropractic yet, I would try to do so.

[sapvi]

He gets physio every several months (not because of some problems, I just have physio to older horse due to age and younger also gets it since physio is there already anyway). They always suspected just weak muscles rather than neuro…

Do you think chiro is better for this than physio?

Do you know which non-so-common exercises I can try?

[FjordBCRF]

Ugh, this type of news sucks.

We underwent a full neurological exam with my guy lates summer 2024 because of worsening tripping/knee buckling. Pulled a moderate EPM titer and found degenerative changes at C5/6/7 as well as mineralization at the poll/C1. Started with 30 days of EPM treatment with no noticeable differences then moved on to a more physical therapy approach with the neck findings in mind.

As part of our rehab/conditiong/whatever you want to call it, I’ve done a TON of targeted exercises, groundwork, pole work, standing on foam pads, stretching etc. Jec Ballou has a couple of wonderful books that break things down and includes workout plans for the horse. These have helped SO MUCH. This book I REALLY like: https://www.jecballou.com/store/p/33-strength-and-fitness-workouts-for-horses-pre-order

While these workouts have been helping us, one of the bonus things I found is that the more groundwork I do, and see how he does, I have a much better sense for his “normal” and when something may be bothering him.

Big jingles to you.

[sapvi]

Thanks a lot.

Now I feel as such a failure to not starting with this earlier. I mean, we did some light work like twice a week groundwork with a couch, and twice a week in-hand walk / ground work, but it was all just very light and I have a feeling I just had to do it as soon as sth seemed off to me, not just wait for the vet

I’ll try to find out about the neck screening and I’ll try to start some more targeted exercises ASAP…

[Sdel]

My gelding get chiro bi-monthly. I do his other bodywork myself, it’s pretty much daily.

Activation exercises are commonly known as carrot stretches, belly lifts, tail tucks, and lateral tail pulls. You can find all of those things on YT.

And then a good groundwork physio plan involving poles. You can buy books that cover such exercises or you can find YT’s as well. Jec Ballou’s books are often recommended, but she has some YTs as well.

[FjordBCRF]

@sapvi

Now I feel as such a failure to not starting with this earlier. I mean, we did some light work like twice a week groundwork with a couch, and twice a week in-hand walk / ground work, but it was all just very light and I have a feeling I just had to do it as soon as sth seemed off to me, not just wait for the vet

Don’t beat yourself up. I got my guy as a 3 YO that was just broke to drive and ride. I am nearly positive looking back at videos now that the neck stuff may have always been there. I didn’t X-ray the neck on our PPE. I look back and wonder about all the things I could/should have done different, and you just can never predict the future.

Dovetailing off @Sdel, bodywork is huge. Pick up a Posture Prep brush…my guy really likes his. I also use a human massage gun thing, and that is probably my most bang for the buck with him. He moves to where he wants to and I get a ton of releases out of him. I also have a BEMER that I use regularly on him and I find that seems to help him warm up and move a little more fluidly.

We also started electroacupuncture which has had amazing results; doing that every few months now after doing it weekly, then monthly for a while.

[sapvi]

Yes, my horse also has neck stiffness… Which now or course makes total sense but wasn’t even caught by two different physio professionals as something weird. They just said that it’s because of growth and that he just needs some massage, not that it can be cue to something serious… I’m contacting also chiro. Didn’t know electroacupuncture is a thing, will try to find it out as well.

Already bought the book adviced above, I’ll try to focus on all the exercises.

In the end I had to trust my guts several months ago and probably do focused work for this immediately. Let’s hope it’s not too late. Will try to focus as much as possible on this for 6 months and hope in 6 month maybe there’s improvement on the neuro test.

[Sdel]

I also use the posture prep. I use it almost exclusively. If you are not in the US, you may not be able to obtain one, but the real key is the method, and you can use that with any basic curry or your hands as appropriate. Dr. Bona has provided extensive videos of her technique on YT.

[FjordBCRF]

@sapvi

Didn’t know electroacupuncture is a thing, will try to find it out as well.

After the first couple sessions, he knew exactly what we were doing and would walk in, park, and just zone out!

I also have disc generation disease in my cervical spine and have had a lot of success with acupuncture. I have not tried the electro kind though!

[sapvi]

Yes I’m not in US. But thanks so much, I’ll try to Google it.

[ParadoxFarm]

@FjordBCRF

Jec Ballou has a couple of wonderful books that break things down and includes workout plans for the horse. These have helped SO MUCH. This book I REALLY like: https://www.jecballou.com/store/p/33-strength-and-fitness-workouts-for-horses-pre-order

I was going to suggest this as well. I hope you find a better outcome than the one your vet is projecting. The extra physical work may be just the thing that helps. Good luck.

[Sdel]

There is at least one thread here on the Posture Prep. It should have video links.

[clburnham11]

I’m so sorry. I know how this feels, I’m pretty much in the exact same situation. Haven’t been able to actually ride the horses I bought for years, now both retired. I miss riding so much. It is heartbreaking, but I found taking a break for a few months while trying to find a half lease or somewhere to take a few lessons was helpful. Sometimes we just need a break from all of the grief. It is SO hard to put a ton of money, time, and energy into a “maybe they’ll be rideable one day”. Especially if they’re content in retirement. I just want to validate how difficult it is to find the line of when do I stop? I think that’s been the hardest thing for me. Seems like you could go on forever with diagnostics and rehab but not everyone’s mental health/pocketbook can stand it! This is supposed to be a source of joy and meaning. Try achieving that with just spending time with him- going for walks, groundwork, etc. focus on the muscle building exercises people suggested above as a way to spend quality time with him and help him feel better in his body- I’ve found focusing on that instead of riding goals has helped. Again, im so sorry this happened to your boy

[sapvi]

My older horse had so many mental problems that so often he wasn’t rideable outside at all… It took 10 years to bring him to learn outside riding… And still he had mental issues kick in sometimes. So I retired him and got my sweet young boy with such a perfect demeanor… only to find out that he might not be physically rideable 🥹 Life is hard.

[Sdel]

Don’t forget to treat the muscles and nerves nutritionally as well. Vit E, selenium, mg, salt, amino acids, B-vitamins….all of that can play a role in muscle/nerve health as well.

[sapvi]

We had food based on the nutri specialist advice… I’ll tell her this not-so-nice new info and i hope she’d adapt it.

I must admit I f-uped a lot with the food in the first half a year, I hope that isn’t the cause for the neuro onset

[Libby2563]

What were your horse’s symptoms that caused you to get the neuro eval? It’s hard to know what to advise without knowing how concerning the symptoms are and given that it sounds like your options for diagnostic work are limited. ECVM vs an acute neurological illness vs EDM are really very different situations. If you aren’t already supplementing Vitamin E, I would do that.

To me it matters a lot whether the horse is tripping, staggering, falling, acting explosive, showing muscle asymmetry or wasting, etc vs just has some proprioceptive or gait anomalies that most vets wouldn’t notice unless they were looking for it. (I have one of the latter and he is doing great in full work 2 years after a presumptive diagnosis of EDM…only time will tell and for now all I can do is keep enjoying him and stay vigilant.)

Most of this has been covered already but here are the exercises recommended for my neuro horse by an equine neurologist: