So roan thoroughbreds do exist?

[UnbreakableStrides]

So I have heard that they can be true roan but that it is very rare, and I have also heard that thoroughbreds can not be rare and so such thing exist…

But if so how do you explain Lavender Fields?
http://www.arabian-data.com/d?i=10770321&z=lnr0L1

And her father Catch a Bird
http://www.arabian-data.com/d?i=10494702&z=lnr0L1
Apparently he had a once in a time mutation gene that held roan?

And last but not least my favorite [I]Oxbow[/I. He looks roan yet people are saying it is from rabicano or even sabino because roan thoroughbreds do not exist.
http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/841/476/hi-res-167753587_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=433&q=85
http://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/si/dam/assets/13/06/06/130606112014-d-wayne-lukas-1-single-image-cut.jpg

Even though the Jockey club does recognize roan as a color…
https://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/registry.cfm?page=dotRegistryIdentifyThoroughbred
When did this happen? Because I have been researching roan thoroughbreds and every post I have stumbled across has said roan thoroughbreds do not exist?? Does that mean Oxbow could very well be a roan?

[Texarkana]

The JC recognizes roan as a color… BUT, it’s only an option for registration as “gray or roan” for gray horses. Yes, I know and they know the colors are not genetically linked, it’s an identification thing. You cannot register a TB as just “roan” in the US today, not sure about other worldwide TB registries.

Oxbow’s connections tried to register him as “gray or roan” and the JC denied it because he didn’t have a gray parent.

Genetically, I’m not sure if the horses above are the same as true roans you see in other breeds or if it is a separate mutation that presents similarly. In every day conversation, there is no harm in calling any of the roan IMO. You just can’t register them in the US as such.

[csaper58]

Okay, we have…

www.pedigreequery.com/lavender+fields Her sire and dam are 1/2 siblings out of the same mare sired by Bletchingly. Her dam is the same roan color. Catch a Bird is her grandsire. There is some dispute as to ownership of this mare and and her colt.

www.pedigreequery.com/oxbow4 also has Bletchingly on Dam side 4 generations back.

Both Oxbow and Lavender Fields are from Australia.

[JB]

Technically Roan DOES exist via the Catch A Bird line. TJC does recognize Roan but for the wrong reason - “roan or gray” is what all the grays get, even before the existend of CAB. TJC is all about the phenotype, and yes, the early-stage grays can look like a Roan.

Oxbow is not any testable form of Roan, since neither parent is Roan.

One theory is that he’s a new form of Rabicano, as that’s thought to be on KIT, which mutates quite frequently.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=JB;8782982]
Oxbow is not any testable form of Roan, since neither parent is Roan.[/QUOTE]

This is assuming his parents are the horses listed on the pedigree. I know some folks who bred their plain bay mare to a plain bay stud. The result was a gray foal.

The mare was out with a grey yearling stud colt after she was bred.

Stuff happens.

Have they DNA color tested Oxbow?

www.pedigreequery.com/lucky+chappy another roan?

[JB]

@csaper58;8783013

This is assuming his parents are the horses listed on the pedigree.

TJC requires parental DNA testing for verification

I know some folks who bred their plain bay mare to a plain bay stud. The result was a gray foal.

this happens a lot. One “famous” situation here was “Chestnot”, a foal born of a chestnut mare and allegedly by a chestnut stallion, who was decidedly not chestnut. More than a few WBs have ended up being by a different sire than intended, or told.

stuff happens

• except when dna verification is required for registration

Have they DNA color tested Oxbow?

No, and sadly, I doubt any will be done

[csaper58]

According to AllBreed

www.allbreedpedigree.com/catch+a+bird

His sire’s dam was a quarter horse? So how can he be registered thoroughbred?

For how many years has the Jockey Club been requiring DNA? Catch a Bird was born in 1982.

Is there a way to tell if Catch A Bird’s offspring are a new mutation or normal roans?

Catch A Bird looks like he could be a chimera of a brown foal and a roan foal. Was he DNA typed for both the brown areas and the light areas?

[csaper58]

This thoroughbred is a brindle, wonder if she’ll have roan babies?

www.allbreedpedigree.com/remark2

www.allbreedpedigree.com/slewcy’s+gale Brindle also

[vineyridge]

Jorge, who is now deceased, was obsessed with TB colors. Here is his page on Roan with a link to the Catch A Bird line.
http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/tbcolor2.html

Do not believe anything about Allbreed Pedigrees. If it’s a TB go to Pedigree Query
http://www.pedigreequery.com/catch+a+bird

[weixiao]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8783131]
According to AllBreed

www.allbreedpedigree.com/catch+a+bird

His sire’s dam was a quarter horse? So how can he be registered thoroughbred?

For how many years has the Jockey Club been requiring DNA? Catch a Bird was born in 1982.

Is there a way to tell if Catch A Bird’s offspring are a new mutation or normal roans?

Catch A Bird looks like he could be a chimera of a brown foal and a roan foal. Was he DNA typed for both the brown areas and the light areas?[/QUOTE]

PQ isn’t the most accurate. This has the wrong mare in it. The correct breeding is here:
http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=349761

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8783231]
Jorge, who is now deceased, was obsessed with TB colors. Here is his page on Roan with a link to the Catch A Bird line.
http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/tbcolor2.html

Do not believe anything about Allbreed Pedigrees. If it’s a TB go to Pedigree Query
http://www.pedigreequery.com/catch+a+bird[/QUOTE]

Isn’t Julio’s Bar a rather notable Quarter horse stallion by Tree Bars?

He is the sire of Sears Karen Bars who is the dam of Catch A Bird’s sire’s dam.
There is a photo of Julios Bar his pedigree page. Looks very Qt. horse to me.

What gives?

Edit to Add: Oh I see… Thanks Weixiao

All Breed }
Pedigree Query} each have a totally different mare as ‘Priceless Gem’ the sire’s dam

[vineyridge]

Allbreed pedigrees are put in by just anybody, and the just anybodies often select the wrong horse from multiple horses with the same name.

Pedigree Query is much more accurate, and the JC is, of course, the most accurate.

[JB]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8783161]
This thoroughbred is a brindle, wonder if she’ll have roan babies?

www.allbreedpedigree.com/remark2

www.allbreedpedigree.com/slewcy’s+gale Brindle also[/QUOTE]

Heritable brindle has proven, unless something new has come up since I last looked at this, to be a terrible trait, with horrible skin issues at some point. Most brindle is not heritable, so no, I would not expect those 2 to produce brindles.

Brindling is more likely to happen when there is some sort of overlay on a base color, such as roans and grays. The white pattern gets skewed, which leads to the brindle pattern.

[csaper58]

Bump

[Nootka]

This mare is on her way to the USA. She is a true roan and will produce JC foals.

http://www.winningcoloursfarm.com.au/product/view/lilac-in-style

[JB]

Yes, she’s another Catch A Bird granddaughter.