This. The horse market is so hot right now that finding a replacement might take a long time. And you bought this horse for a reason, right? Move, get settled, send for your horse and start again on the right foot.
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If you decide to keep your horse when you move and need some advice on trainers I might be able to help. I live in a suburb of NYC and have tried a number of H/J barns in the area. Send a PM if so. Otherwise, best of luck to you!
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It’s really hard for me to give advice because I don’t know how well or poorly you ride, what your courage and commitment level is, and what the horse is really like. You don’t know what you don’t know, clearly. But you also don’t know what you do know. You are the person worrying about leasing the pony you outgrew to the trainer in question because one of your barn friends had a conflict over horse care, right?
So one of the things is I assume you’ve been riding the pony and maybe lesson horses, you are still quite young, this is your first “real” horse, and you expected a seamless transition. And you had no intelligent adult support through the settling in process, so horse got hot and confused.
Quite honestly I have never seen anyone have a truly smooth transition to a new horse. Especially when they have traded up to a quality horse. Our lesson program kids almost have to learn to ride all over agsin when they transition to a privately owned lease horse.
Your friend who says the problems aren’t that big and you can work through them is likely correct. However, this will require a huge learning curve for you and a huge commitment to working the horse in new ways. Can you do this while and after you move? Do you even want to commit this much time to new skills in the middle of a move? Do you even want to ride at that level?
How much barn time will you have? That depends on if you are moving for a job or school or other time consuming life thing.
On the other hand it’s possible you were sold a screaming banshee that was drugged for the trial ride, or has very low tolerance for rider error. Or it’s possible you can’t really ride at all, or your comfort level really is an old pony.
I can’t really say. Only you in your deepest heart can decide if you are able and willing to step up to the plate. If not for any reason, sell ASAP before horse is seen as an unsellable problem.
BTW don’t knock self taught pros for this kind of problem solving.
A self taught pro in this kind of lower budget horse area very often excels at starting colts, retraining OTTB, dealing with lower end problem horses, and riding out bucks. Often they’ve started out in Western as a kid and have had ranch or farm experience.
What they tend to lack is knowledge, skills, and contacts to get themselves or their students up past the middling levels of local shows. They may also allow a kind of riding by the seat of your pants so to speak that worked well for them (because they were talented and had lots of horse exposure) but leaves lesson kids with holes in their skill set.
But for sorting out a hot horse and putting it back in a program, you could do far worse than a good self taught pro with a sticky seat and courage.
Of course there are self taught frauds everywhere, including in fancy barns. There are deluded teens who have been “riding ten years” (counting the country fair pony ride at age 5) who put out a FB notice that they are now professional horse whisperers.
But someone who has managed to put together a successful lower level lesson program without having high level mentors in their orbit is probably pretty competent.
Also finally. The big thing to remember is that everyone of us riders are really “self taught.” If we are lucky we get some good coaching along the way. But we learn how to ride by ourselves and we learn how to problem solve, feel a horse, and know our own horses ourselves despite the coaching.
You are now at the point where you need to become self taught. You have discovered that you didn’t know the basic common sense steps of how to settle in a new horse. That’s fine. Now you know. Now you need to go back to square one and start over as if horse was new, assuming it will take 3 times as long as if you’d done it right the first time. That’s OK. That’s how you learn.
This isn’t something that your East Coast pro trainers in the 3 foot 6 will necessarily be better at than your local self taught trainer who can ride the horse with no trouble.
On the other hand, if the horses big problems really do relate to moving to a new barn and routine, and you want to sell, I’d suggest leaving her at this barn with this trainer who rides her just fine. If you ship her out of state without being confident working her you are going to end up in a new barn as the unknown quantity with the problem horse that you can’t handle, and I doubt you will sell that horse for a markup.
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I think you might be thinking of a different poster
Nope, I double checked.
Was my trainer in the wrong here? Thread from a couple weeks back.
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Oh sorry, my bad. You are right. Same person. But that’s not the thread about the horse at issue here, I don’t think. THIS thread is about the horse at issue here…
It provides some context that might be helpful in giving advice about whether to sell/keep this horse.
Yes, that Struggling post really covered everything. It’s not clear if OP has started working the horse or seen any changes yet.
So. Much. Going. On. Here. Brief perusing of this and past threads (which I had read but had not pieced together that this was the same poster…) reveals that (unless I am wrong) OP:
- is a first time horse owner (other than pony?),
- is fairly green him/herself,
- considered (I believe), a hotter/tricker horse over Steady Eddie because made OP “look like a better rider”,
- ended up with a 7 year old,
- went from 0-60 upon bringing said first horse home without giving it (and herself) time to get used to new setting/program/partnership,
- jumped outside of lessons almost immediately upon first bringing horse home,
- couldn’t sit said horse’s spook and fell off repeatedly,
- does not fully trust trainer, who may or may not have been honest in disclosing veterinarian’s recommendations to a friend (who was young and inexperienced)…
I know that you’ve admitted much of the above and that’s great! While I would normally agree to leave horse with current trainer as a sales horse, if you don’t fully trust trainer (not sure I would, but hard to tell…) that doesn’t sound like a good option.
As someone who has a horse who can be tricky and has, at times, intimidated me, I can sympathize. And I do agree that I have not ever had a seamless transition to a new horse (this is my 8th horse), nor have I seen anyone else not hit a stumbling block or two (or ten!). That said, I have always:
- had trainers I can explicitly trust,
- been confident that I can ride through the rough times once I get my head on straight,
- had my horses in a solid and consistent program,
- taken things slowly (and stepped back when needed!).
Do I have bad days? Sure! But I trust my trainer to push me when I need pushing and to reel me back when I need to refocus on the basics. And I trust her to do right by my horse and not let me screw her up.
Are you overhorsed? Sounds like it… but maybe not. With a competent trainer and a solid program, you may be able to work through it.
I don’t have good advice because of how much seems to be going on here. That said, being in the NYC area, I can say there are plenty of good pros here to put the horse into a program with if you decide not to leave with current trainer. Some in NJ are more reasonable budget-wise than those on Long Island or in Westchester, etc.
ETA: I also returned after a break and initially found I wanted to get back to former level immediately. I now realize I may never be able to ride like I used to… but I am fine with that. Which is why I take things SLOW.
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I have not read any of the OP’s prior threads about her trainer, FWIW. I only read her other thread about THIS horse and her problems with the horse. If she doesn’t trust the trainer then this horse should go to a reputable sale barn to sell. OP if you’re on the East Coast I have 2 recommendations.
She does not seem equipped to deal with this horse. She hasn’t had it long and keeps exercising poor judgment in handling it. Her natural horsemanship app is not likely to cut it. She either needs something easier/more trained or a more serious program. Unless she’s got a really good program that has already seen her and the horse and agreed to work with them, this seems like compounding the current problem to move the horse across the country. I suspect any good program is going to see her and a green horse and think that SHE needs to go back to basics because there seem to be a lot of gaps in her education. Plus, she’s already kind of all over the place. And I suspect doesn’t realize what a competitive program in the NYC metro area REALLY entails (price and committment-wise). Too much is going on here and adding the move couldn’t do much to help.
I am a proponent of sell, move, take lessons, get into a program you really like, let them find you a suitable horse to buy or lease down the line.
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I agree, sell the horse. If at a loss you will be saving a lot of money.
When you buy a horse. Buy a horse you can ride now. Not one that needs training rides or only ridden in lessons, etc,etc. You have to be able to get on and ride it for what you want to do now.
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This. If you have any hesitations with trusting your trainer, you should send your horse to a reputable sales barn.
Honestly, based on what OP has shared in this thread & the other thread, I would sell the mare and start over. Moving to a new place is hard and takes an adjustment. For example:
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What will your work schedule be? Will you have the same time to devote to riding your horse?
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What will your commute be to your new barn?
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Do you have a list of trainers/programs you are considering in your new area or contacts in this area?
If this was a horse you had already connected with and doing fine with, I would say bring it, even if there is a delay between you moving and the horse. Honestly, based on what you have shared in this thread and other, it doesn’t sound like this horse is a great fit for where you are at right now and the horse. It sounds like this horse needs a full time program to shine and support you in being the best partner with the horse. If it were me, I would sell and lease a horse in the area for awhile before purchasing? Why lease? It can give you a chance to check out a program, build a rapport and trust with a trainer, and make sure you can sustain the financial and time commitment of horse ownership in your new area/job before making that jump.
I get wanting to make it work with the horse. I’ve been there. I had a horse who I was overmatched with, but I wanted to prove I could do it–I ended up getting bucked off and spun off quite a bit, and I’m just lucky I didn’t get hurt. I wish I could tell my past-self that I had nothing to prove and I wish I had sold the horse sooner.
OP, it’s hard for us to give strong advice without knowing your exact level, how many years you’ve been riding, and how the horse is doing well, but again, I would reiterate for you and the horse, I think your riding and happiness would be better served by selling at a reputable sales barn, settling in and getting connected in your new area, find a leasing situation, and then consider buying a horse once the market has settled.
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Yeah, this isn’t rational, but the prospect of being “out” of horses after I move is just not something I want to consider. I’d rather have a horse I can lunge and hand walk every day than no horse at all.
I picked our rental based on its proximity to the barn I found for boarding. My job has always been remote, even before COVID, so that’s staying the same. And so I’ll have the time and commitment to work on the horse, though still being light on knowledge and skill. I think maybe as a rider I’ve stalled out at a point where I don’t do anything wrong but don’t do anything right, either. And I’ve just been there for a long time. It was a non-issue on packer horses.
If I did sell, I would be in the market for a full-lease right away, probably hating every day I didn’t go to the barn. I know that’s probably wisest. Even the high-end barns in the area have reasonably priced lesson packages, if I wanted to ride school horses. But on the other hand, I really don’t want to give up being an owner, or at least a full-leaser. It’s an enormous part of my life. Like I said, I know that I would rather have a horse I can’t ride than no horse.
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It’s easy to have a horse you can’t ride. I see it all around me, between nervous adult beginners, beloved retired horses, lame horses, minis, and all other variety of lead and feed.
I think this is ego talking, or wounded pride. You don’t actually want this horse in particular. You want to be around horses (good) and you want to be an owner. That last is not always good. I’ve seen a number of adult beginners or reriders rush ownership in order to have My Own Little Pony, and they would have been better off taking lessons for three years and leasing.
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Sooo… NYC Metro can mean a lot of things, but realistically, it means more money typically. So be prepared for some serious sticker shock.
Would I send horse with me? Probably not. It sounds like a bad fit. It sounded like a bad call before in earlier posts, and spending another $1500 to ship it somewhere sounds worse. Use that money to invest in training rides and consignment board to get it sold. You have a bad taste in your mouth about it. Honestly, your posts speak of you just not liking it. You’re coming here to ask advice about something you know, deep down, isn’t the right fit. It’s an ego sucker punch, but we’ve all had our fair share of bad fits or duds, so we get it. Sometimes it’s the horse. Sometimes it’s you. Sometimes it’s a combination. Regardless, you’ve learned some life lessons here and I hope you have some takeaways (i.e. don’t jump horses without a professional, particularly when you’re still figuring it out for yourself). You’ll find that most barns in the NYC Metro area will be a bit more strict about their expectations. I don’t think I ever rode anywhere in NJ where people were ok with horses jumping without a professional in the ring. Please keep that in mind regardless of your decision. At the end of the day, there are a lot of great horses out there and the longer you fight the good fight with the bad fit, the longer you wait to find your true heart horse. Good luck and best wishes… NJ and NY have some great barns and beautiful shows.
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OP and I actually talked over on Reddit so I’m going off more information. I’m just reiterating myself here, but I think there’s going to be growing pains with any new horse and she has nothing to lose by waiting. I would just take a step back and take it slow with the mare and go back to ground work and flatwork under saddle when the trainer is there to help.
I also know that she would pay tripple for the same horse in New York and she’s not going to have issues selling it if she goes to that route. IMO the mare and OP are both a bit green but the mare actually seems like she has a great disposition for a greenie and OP has a decent enough seat FWIW.
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NYC metro area is extremely expensive. I’m not sure from where you are moving but when you think about getting a higher price in a more competitive market, you have to factor in the carry cost of keeping this horse.
Your current trainer helped you choose this horse. Can your current trainer quickly help you get it off your payroll? The market is hot right now. Horses are selling on videos. If the horse is as nice as described it could sell quickly. Money seems to be a factor here or otherwise you likely wouldn’t have bought this particular horse, so I would sell it before putting any more money into it. This sport isn’t always kind to our wallets and sometimes it’s better to cut our losses as soon as we see the issue - otherwise it will compound quickly. So much can happen on long term hauling - accident, colic, dehydration. Why take an unnecessary risk? If you do decide to move this horse, please make sure you’re insured. It’s the heat of the summer and you aren’t familiar with this horse.
As for what to do when you get to the NYC metro area - take lessons on a schoolmaster. Then transition to a half lease on a schoolmaster. Learn to perfect your seat (because your current trainer indicated that you need work there). Become a better rider. And save your money for a more suitable match in the future. I think this would be a much more enjoyable path for you!
My horse is in training in FL so I ride at a barn here at home once or twice a week. It’s been such a fun experience to ride different types of horses, to learn how to adjust my ride for each, to really listen to the feedback each horse has given me and provide an empathetic ride to each horse. It’s making me such a better rider. Some horses need a light seat, some need a driving seat, some need to warm up more before you ask them to engage (might be older, stiff, have an old injury). These are all things you can learn about in a great program, and can help you moving forward as you advance as a rider.
Find a way to truly enjoy the ride!!
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That would be nice, but in the h/j market right now, it’s not always possible. Say you want to show in the 3’ hunters at AA shows NOW. Well, that’ll cost you a good $75,000 – if you can even find one. So I don’t mind the idea of an experienced ammy buying a green horse – if they have the right program. It means the trainer rides the horse more than the ammy, and the ammy has to be under supervision for a while.
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I haven’t read all the responses, OP, but I have a question and a thought.
Questions: What did you buy this horse to do? Do you want/need to show right now? Did you buy it to learn to ride better? Is it suitable for the job, even if too green at the moment? Is it sound and capable?
My thought: I would not sell a $10,000 horse that could help me get my foot in the door in the NY/CT market. If that horse is sound and capable (but not fancy), I’d still keep it as a very, very useful to me. You will not be able to replace this horse anywhere near that price in the place you are moving to.
Instead, if you can stand the horsemanship goal, pick the trainer who doesn’t mind teaching you to learn to ride well enough to bring along your green horse. Make her more rideable, get to know a pro, learn to ride better yourself and then sell her for enough money to buy yourself the better one-- which might mean less green or might mean more fancy.
ETA: So reading the rest of the thread, too quickly, I guess I would ask just how green and not-a-great-horseman the OP is. I don’t mean to be mean; I just need mean to express the idea that a green horse is going to need a whole lot of empathy and well-chosen rides and handling on the ground. If you can’t/don’t want to deliver that, stop digging the hole now.
I have moved between markets (including the NY/CT one, but long ago) with- and without already owning a horse. I find it harder to figure out which trainer I’d like to work with if I don’t bring a horse and come as a client. I am well-aware that most pros would like to be able to choose the horse for me, but I have not enjoyed the experience of riding their lesson horses or even lease horses as a basis for discovering if I wanted to spend the bigger bucks it will take to buy the horse they tell me to.
I should say that I’m one of those old “good ammy” horse ladies who knows what she likes to ride and can/likes the process of bringing one along. Don’t get me wrong: I adore having a pro who is involved, doing lots of the riding and providing lots of the direction. But I can also ride a horse that’s got 30 or 60 days on it, and I like the journey.
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Suburbs of NYC can be NY, NJ, or CT. A little more context will probably yield you some excellent recommendations for training for your current horse or lease options to find something if you sell her. Ideally the same trainer can help you evaluate this horse and make a decision, then either get her sold or get you and she on the right program together. If you truly have a sub 10k young horse that can go around in the adults or modifieds in a program, you can definitely sell her here, lots of people do local circuits and dabble in rated shows that are close by (Old Salem, Fairfield, Gardnertown, etc in the NY/CT area) and those horses are in high demand for people who want to do that.
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As someone who rode in the NYC area for years, and just moved away and had to find a new barn in an equally expensive area, one question I have is: what is the backup plan if the new barn you’ve picked (and decided to live near) doesn’t work out? It could seem perfect on paper and on the phone… but what if your horse hates their turnout schedule, or you hate the trainer’s communication style, or any of the other million things that can be a dealbreaker?
I’d call the barn you’re thinking about moving to and confirm exactly what they can provide for your mare. If you and the mare need x amount of pro rides and lessons per week, you have to find out if they can do that and you can afford it.
Then, I’d make sure you have a backup barn (or two, or three). I cannot overemphasize how expensive board & training can be around NYC, even in ‘cheaper’ areas like NJ. Start calling around and inquiring about board & training prices. Make a spreadsheet. People here and on local FB groups will have lots of recommendations.
If you adore THIS horse, and you have a couple of barns that might work, I’d leave with current trainer for a while you get settled, then move her. (Or send her to a colt starter as your trainer recommended - though I’m curious why that was recommended? Does she have major holes in her basics that the pro can ride through, but you cannot?) If it’s not working out, you can always sell her after you move with the help of your new trainer.
If you don’t love & totally click with THIS horse, but just want your own horse… I’d send her to a good sales barn or have current trainer sell her. Then, put the proceeds toward a lease at a new barn in your area. If you need a daily horse fix, I am sure there is a therapeutic riding facility or horse rescue nearby that needs extra hands. Or maybe someone on a local FB group who’d be happy to have you come groom their retirees a few times a week.
Before I moved, one of my wise friends reminded me that there are seasons in life for everything, including riding. There are times in life when riding and horses can be our #1 priority, and times when it has to take a backseat to family, career, or a big life change. It’s fine if you need to put riding on the backburner for a bit, sell this mare, and start fresh in a new location. Being overhorsed, moving, and finding a new barn are all tough, draining & sometimes discouraging. I wouldn’t want to deal with all three at once.
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