One of the things that has occurred to me - and it almost certainly doesn’t apply to anyone here - is that NATRC would be of great benefit if it can attract and educate people who buy a horse and stick it in their backyards and just head out on the trails with it, with no formal training (or even any informal training 
I’m glad to see this thread; I had considered starting one!
I’m also glad we went to the seminar; I think branching out is good. However, I don’t know think that sanctioned CTR is for me.
And for different reasons than R-A R. My main hang-up, beyond the pace, is that my natural tendency is to ride in a Forward Seat. Which the horsemanship judges really didn’t appreciate in the hillwork. I’m not certain that I care to pay $ to be evaluated by people who won’t factor that into the equation. I just don’t sit like a stock seat rider. Never have, never will.
And the difference in equipment comes into play as well, as R-A R pointed out in her dropping stirrups example. But also in comments on use of things such as a running martingale, or leather tack rather than man-made.
Different strokes for different folks. A person could learn a lot doing this and have fun with a horse. Especially one who might not be suited for other sports; this is a way to still be competitive.
I’ve ridden those same Wickenburg trails at the endurance ride held there and I dont think they are super rocky. I mean, most of AZ is to some degree.
If I do the ride in March, I will report on it 
That is interesting about the forward seat part. I am from an English riding background, have done eventing and h/j, never any stock seat stuff and I remember from the 2 NATRCS I did back in the day, I got excellent scores on my equitation My points off were the “dumb stuff” about how tying my horse improperly to the trailer, how I kept the horse’s hay and water, etc. I dont even remember what I did wrong or what the right way was!
Saratoga,
I could’ve been clearer: when going uphill, because I ride in a forward seat, to get off the horse’s back, all I need to do is close my hip angle a bit more. This lifts my rear off the saddle. (As you well know) I grab a little mane near where my hands normally are. Unless it’s a really steep hill & then I adjust my balance points accordingly.
The judges apparently preferred me to stand up in my stirrups and grab mane near the horse’s ears. On a relatively mild, IMO, climb.
Completely unnecessary technique in my case.
In a stock seat, grabbing mane might help the rider who isn’t used to supporting her weight out of the saddle while going up hill standing in stirrups. Standing in the stirrups being necessary, presumably, because of the lengthened leg and build of the saddle.
Once again, different strokes, but didn’t seem like the judging took into account the fundamental differences in seats/techniques/equipment.
YMMV!
What was wrong w/ your trailer tying? We wondered if our technique would be counted down…
Wow. I’m glad the CTR I went on didn’t judge equitation! My equitation days are more than 20 years behind me. I was quite good back in the day, but now I just like to ride by feel and do what my horse seems to need. I’ve taken quite a bit of Centered Riding, and it may not always be pretty, but my horse’s back doesn’t get sore! And how to tie horses? I use a blocker tie ring…Heck, I guess I’m too much set in my own ways to go to a ride that expects me to do things their way. I also prefer to keep them in a portable electric pen than to keep them tied to the trailer. ECTRA sounds better for the likes of me.
I may have just acquired a CTR horse. I was given an Arabian today. She’s coming 4 and has been a bit of a training problem. I suspect that initial difficulties were of the green horse/green rider type, and then the horse got sent to somebody who breaks TB’s for the track. I’m hoping to give her some time to grow and mature, then go back to the ground work. I sure hope she has some good quality feet that can handle barefoot. That will be a refreshing change for me.
So, if she works out, I might have an endurance horse and a CTR horse next year. That would be cool if I can manage to keep them both fit! Heck, maybe my kids will take and interest and be able to ride with me. Okay, I’ve got to settle down–that’s unlikely.
[QUOTE=rivenoak;2955426]
What was wrong w/ your trailer tying? We wondered if our technique would be counted down…[/QUOTE]
I dont think it was the technique so much as the proper height from the snap of the lead rope to the ground…think it was supposed to be a few inches and ours were a little longer. I have a Hi-Tie now and its at a set length so not sure how that will go over…Plus like someone else mentioned, they worried about horses hitting the valve of the tire, plus getting their legs caught in the tires or someway or another injured on the trailer. I remember putting duct tape over the trailer’s license plate and some other places too. It was actually all kind of silly…but I’ll give it another shot (maybe…)
I didnt get the impression that they were looking for any specific “form of equitation”…just basic good riding. I have to say that I do see some horrendous riding at endurance rides…hanging onto horses’ mouths, stirrups really long, toes pointed down, just terribly unbalanced, crooked, etc. etc.
Not to say that everybody is like that!!!
CTR does not interest me one bit. The boots/gaiters thing is a huge turnoff also. As is the basic whole idea of being judged going down the trail. I didn’t get out of the show ring just to be judged out on the trail!
The endurance vet checks is great with me. Those are real health issues. But being judged on how I attach my horse to the trailer or how I post over a log?? Please. Spare me.
If other people want to do it, and enjoy it, great. I’m happy there’s something out there for you that you enjoy. I wouldn’t want to see CTR go away just because I don’t care for it. Being judged while going down the trail is a terd in the punchbowl for me. I mean, you have this gorgeous trail ahead of you, sitting on top a powerful equine, and you want to experience the freedom and the exhileration of the ride. Yes, you still have vet checks and rules, but at least 90% of the time it’s just you, the horse, and the trail.
I met a woman last year who was absolutely RAVING on her accomplishment of having done a 25 mile CTR ride and getting whatever score. She went on and on about how 25 miles is absolutely greuling and asking a horse to traverse 25 miles while being JUDGED is such a feat. I kept my mouth shut (surprise surprise) but wanted to say that actually 25 miles is not that much.
I do agree with you on this point. If CTRs can correct some of this horrible riding, then it’s worth it’s place. I look at most of the online albums from all the big endurance rides, and I swear I can’t believe some of those people actually stay ON their horse. :eek: Ugly, ugly riding. Even watching the video of Cougar Rock last year - holy crap. Did you see that guy in the green shirt just fall off his horse for no reason?! Looked like he was drunk. Couldn’t get the horse up the rock, beating and banging. Ecccch, that was scary. Then watch John Crandell III go up. Poetry in motion. There’s a good reason some people finish and some people don’t. :lol:
You only asked for what we like, and there are a lot of things I don’t like - the subjectivity of judges beeing one of them. I ride in my Pessoa Gen X saddle and certainly have never been asked to grab mane by my horse’s ears, even here in the Rockies where we haver really steep hills…
On the other hand, to me, there is a reason for tying to the trailer a certain way. Maybe not something to worry about at a show or for short periods of times, but when the horse is tied to the trailer overnight, it can become a big safety issue. At my first Endurance ride, I saw at least 3 accidents at different trailers that could easily have been preventable, had the owners been made aware. One was a lead rope that was too long - horse got leg over it, panicked, pulled back. Another was water buckets on the ground, horse put foot in it, freaked out. Another was 2 horses tied too close, got in a fight over hay… Yes, those would have been “penalized” at most CTRs, but like any sport, learn the rules and you’ll be fine. Everybody starts with 100 points and is mostly competing against one’s self - it’s our job to keep those points!
So for me, CTRs have definitely taught me a lot, most of it directed at improving the welfare of my horse.
I’ve also had my share of negative experiences, most due to unfair judges, but I guess that happens in most equestrian sports, which are rather subjective by nature.
If anyone is interested in trying a CTR, I would highly recommend getting a mentor for your first ride. They will be able to give you tons of pointers about all those corky little things like the length of the lead rope, presenting your horse to the judges, etc, etc…
I bet pony clubbers would be great at NATRC rides. They are real sticklers for safety. And, I do think it is mostly a good thing. It’s just that I’m getting old and crotchedy, and I’m even more grumpy after a hard day of riding.
I was thrilled just to complete the 30 mile CTR on the little Arabian mare owned by Equihab. I wasn’t looking for ribbons any more than I’d be looking for placing in the top 10 at an endurance ride. For me, it was the satisfaction of finding that the little mare was capable of going 30 miles, 15 of them barefoot, and finishing in good enough condition to complete within the allotted time. It was her first distance ride. I had not done the condition I would usually do for the distance, since it was a last-minute decision to compete her.
I think that being judged on the trail might adversely affect my riding, since I get self conscious. It’s good to know it isn’t exactly equitation they are looking for. I would like to do some judged trail rides for the obstacles this year with Butch. That will be good for teaching him manners. It sounds like the NATRC rides are like an ECTRA CTR and judged trail ride together? Do they give a certain amount of time for negotiating an obstacle? Can you bybass an obstacle and just take a hit on the points? There was a cameraderie on the CTR because of going in small groups. I was riding alone, so it was a great way to make friends on the trail.
If somebody wanted to ping me for my posting style on Butch, I’d have to put them in the saddle and let them figure out how to post low on him. I do end up doing two-point just to rest, but we alternate between two point and posting. That horse really bounces, especially when he’s moving down the trail. It’s one of the reasons why I think our distance might stay limited: he wastes a lot of energy bouncing up and down.
Can you bybass an obstacle and just take a hit on the points?
yes every rider has that opition
NATRC is a great program for teaching a rider how to ferry a horse cross country safely. Your horse gets multiple veterinary exams throughout the ride and the vet judge is very attuned to looking out for horses that may be tiring. Many times the vet judge notices something before the rider is aware of it. This is especially true in the novice division. I can’t tell you how many times I see a horse who is sore on one side of his back, or has some girth scalding. I always turn to and ask the horsemanship judge if there is anything on her cards to reflect an unbalanced rider. Many times the horsemanship judge will tell me that the rider has been observed riding off to one side. Well, guess what. It shows up on your horse!
NATRC is designed with safety and good horsemanship in mind. No, it’s not for everyone, but I think a year of NATRC with a young horse will give that horse an advantage in AERC. I am a big fan of NATRC, competed for many years. And yes, I know what I talk about above as I am a carded NATRC veterinary judge. See you on the trail!
This is very helpful, especially for riders who haven’t taken many riding lessons before launching into the sport. One would hope an instructor would pick up on such imbalances in a rider, but the quality of instruction varies widely. Heck, this would be good for me, too. I’ve been riding for over 30 years, but I have a bad hip. I wouldn’t mind having somebody looking out for me riding too heavy on a side, either.
I just attended a “Connected Riding” clinic. She gave me a way to make sure that I sit evenly. That’s what I’ve been looking for. Learned lots of good stuff. Also learned that my horse is too sore from weeks of lay-up from a bad hind-leg abscess, and I’ll be missing the rides I had planned to attend this spring. Bummer for me, but my horse is more important!
If you’d like to see what Wickenburg Ride looks like, hit the link below.
The marked CTR trails are all on established trails, roads, 2-tracks or in a wash. Unless you get off trail there is not that much rock at all.
Cristy–your pictures are gorgeous! Thanks for sharing them.
I was at a horse camp last summer where they were holding a NATRC ride. Everyone seemed to be having a good time and taking it very seriously. I don’t think it’s quite my cup of tea…we do some fairly hairy stuff with our horses and I don’t know what they’d think of us, LOL…nor I of their rules and regs. to each their own, I can definitely see the attraction to it, truly I do, though it’s not for me…you get to compete and demo your very trail-broke horse, good horsemanship, etc,without the training and hours and joint wear of endurance. Something for everyone
[QUOTE=katarine;2979871]
…you get to compete and demo your very trail-broke horse, good horsemanship, etc,without the training and hours and joint wear of endurance. Something for everyone :)[/QUOTE]
Don’t be fooled! There is all levels of horse and rider combinations possible at these things so not all riders are long established and perfect. In fact, most are not but like the challenge to trying to become fully rounded. CTR’s can be a pretty good challenge. Either terrain-wise, speed wise, or obstacle-wise. Much of it depends on the individual ride managers, judges and trail masters. Every one is different with varying levels of fun and challenge. Horses in the Open division need to be every bit as fit as a 50 mile+ endurance horse and have good trail/obstcle skills to seriously compete.
Regarding the no leg protection rule, one of the original philosophies of NATRC was to promote the breeding and training of horses that are fit to do it. This includes taking care to avoid breeding or buying horses with conformation flaws that create interferences. (sound legs/feet) That said lots of interference issues can be solved by a farrier with good hoof balance skills… one that looks at the whole horse and not just the hoof.
(nothing in here intended to start any debates, just attempting to be helpful!)
and thank you, LisaW-B!
Sorry CristyC, I know you said no debates, but…
Hoof boots are akin to using shoes. Unless the CTR people think we should select horses that can only do the mileage barefoot, boots should be allowed. And I know they are allowed, as long as they don’t go above the coronet. These types are very hard to keep on, especially if your horse lands close enough to grab the heel of the boot.
Gaiters are only to keep the boots on and not to protect the pastern. Yes, they do protect the pastern, but only as an accidental by-product. The argument against them because they rub would be easy enough for the vets and judges to check at a ride. Heck, they check everything else. But again, If they are going to ban boots based on such an argument, then they should also judge the quality of the overall hoof and the farrier work. In this case, horses with contracted heels would be penalized, because that is avoidable with good farrier work. Riders whose horses exhibit thrush should also be penalized.
Let’s look at it from another angle. Those of us who choose barefoot and boots generally have educated ourselved on proper hoof form and hoof health. Our horse’s feet are likely to be examples of good husbandry. It wouldn’t be a bad thing if the vets and judges had to extend their knowledge base to include hoof health issues, and to evaluate good form and balance when they judge an entrant for a ride. In fact, it would benefit everybody who enters a ride.
Neither the judge nor the vet ever picked up one of my horse’s feet. Too bad, because her feet were looking awesome after 15 miles of barefoot!
Lots of horses go barefoot or with EZ boots with no problems. This argument will continue to come up over and over until the end of time. (A much loved, dearly departed horsemanship judge pointed that out many many years ago to me)
I’m a NATRC long-timer… you should have seen the arguments that came up when there were shoeing rules! (as in how wide the shoe could be at the breakover, WHERE the breakover even was. Etc., etc. blah blah blah.) When they decided on the coronet band rule there weren’t very many hoof boots to choose from. Now there are. It is the current rule and I’m glad to see it take a step in the right direction. The only way to make a dent in the current rule is to become a member and address the BOD. Arguing about it here won’t be helpful. And besides, this was supposed to be a thread about what we LIKE about NATRC, not how to change their point of view.
As a personal note: if the hoof conditions were judged, there would be many many barefoot horse owners that would be mighty unhappy to learn that their trims are resulting in long toes and underrun and contracted heels and medial/lateral imbalances just as bad as many that are shod. Might be a really good thing for horses all over the country if they were to judge the workmanship of the riders’ chosen farriers. Heck, horse show judges should grade that too. I know, I look, there are a lot of horses out there in unnecessary pain from hoof imbalances. But that is another thread and many owners don’t have a clue what a good sound hoof should look like. I wish I could teach all horse owners about feet but but only a few of the few I have bothered to listen. They love their farrier and don’t relate suspensory pain, muscle pain, back pain or navicular area pain to the shape of their horses hoof. (regardless of bare or shod). I don’t spread propaganda for either bare or shod it better than the other… each horse is it’s own being and and shape and should get the trim or shoe job IT needs for the truest flight pattern and to keep the entire hoof capsule working efficiently as one single unit. I’ll be happy to share a PDF article that my farrier and vet wrote on hoof balance via email for those that are interested. I won’t debate on it in this particular thread. cristy@horse-photography.com
I like NATRC and what I have learned. It has helped me over the years become a better horsewoman. All the different judges with all their different points of view and the and the different things they look and all the things they make me question and research has helped me become fuller in my knowledge about horses and I am thankful. (and I’m not saying it’s the only place you can do this… it’s just where I started) They do really try to continually learn what is best for the horse. They also are malleable and change their POV as they go within parameters of the original philosophies of the founders. I would not have learned what I have about the hoof without it. It even helped launch my career as a horse photographer so I get to see (and ride) all kinds of disciplines all the time and I still like NATRC. I’m thankful it was my base from which to launch.
Nice pics ChristyC!
I did the endurance ride in Wickenburg last weekend and talked to someone who’s also done that NATRC ride. She said that A LOT of it was in the wash and much less on the trails that the AERC ride uses, which were quite rocky at times.
If I do this ride, I think I will foam regular easy boots on (oh joy!) If I just did the Novice (1 day, 24 miles, very slow) I figure I could do barefoot, especially if it was a lot of wash, but 55 miles over 2 days at a faster pace, I dont want to take a chance on. I really do wish they would change the boot rule. I think it makes the most sense for them too because I do believe that boot / barefoot is only going to grow especially with improvements to boots happening all the time.
