rivenoak and I took Prozac Pony and Mr. Blondie to a NATRC Competitive Trail Ride clinic today - and it was quite an interesting cross-cultural experience for us
I was trying to describe CTR to a fellow eventer, and Iām afraid I made it sound quite sedate and - sorry to say - rather unexciting.
But judging by the turnout at the clinic, and the enthusiasm demonstrated by the people who put on the clinic, thereās got to be SOMETHING about it that draws people in.
So thatās what Iām here to ask - and please donāt take this to be in any way condescending to your sport. This is not meant to be, āWhat on EARTH can you possibly find to like about CTR?ā Not at all. From my very brief exposure to it today, I can think of a few things that might draw people in - Iām curious to see how close I am to reality.
(The boys, by the way, said that they would just as soon have stayed home and watched TV - it went on FAR too long for them!)
pandorasboxx and I sit on the same bench. CTR is great for some, butā¦ too restrictive for my tastes, and not enough āFARā. I prefer an Endurance ride which leaves the strategy, method, and speed up to me.
That said, the aspects CTR share with Endurance: the camping, the social, riding on nice marked trails with friends for hours, the dinners and awards and general overall fun ā¦ has a lot of appeal.
I have almost 400 NATRC miles. I really enjoy the sport, but admit that it is not for everyone. Most Endurance horses would have trouble with the obsticles. They range from standing still while you mount to standing still while the group leaves him. You have to have a very well trained horse that is not of the race mentality. All the obsticles are horsemanship based. Equitation counts. You canāt go bouncing down the trail in NATRC and expect to do well. Your horse has to know how to open a gate and sidepass a log and many other things that take patience and time to teach. I have 175 AERC miles and have heard many AERC people putting natrc down, but I donāt take offense. I love both sports. My horse can do both. He is very well trained. I have spent years training him. Most people donāt want to do that. Endurance is much easier. But they are both fun. They are both about enjoying your horse and the beautiful country that God has blessed us with. If you have never done NATRC or you have tried it and done poorly and given up, then you havenāt experienced the sense of accomplishment that comes with knowing that your horse is so well trained that he can handle any number of things that come his way. That you are the best rider you can be. I have to admit that I am a bit of a snob when it comes to riding. After years of NATRC it is hard to go to an endurance ride and see people bouncing hard of their horses back, or riding two point the whole way, or posting the same diagional the whole trip.
Wellā¦ thereās Risk-Averse, and thereās Asleep. :lol:
Waitā¦ take that back. I promised myself I would try not to be judgmental.
What I have done with my horses, when I had the motivation to drag my sorry self out of my funk and actually ride, was low level eventing and back-to-middle-of-the-pack field hunting. (Out here in Arizona, where we donāt actually have things to jump, so donāt be picturing Lucille Ball in āAuntie Mameā and get all excited A little 2ā6" jumpers at schooling shows. But basically, I hate to show, so I really havenāt pursued the competitive aspects this past year. But I do really enjoy going out with the beagle pack and bopping around in the desert, and I enjoy jumping up to about 2ā6" - both in the ring and over cross country fences. And I actually like the challenge of dressage, too. But I donāt want to spend all my time in the ring.
So the idea of shuffling along on a trail for hours on end just doesnāt do much for me. And Iām a BIG fan of indoor plumbing, so the idea of camping - even in a trailer - also doesnāt do much for me. I figure I did my 2 years in the Peace Corps - that was enough primitive sanitation to last me a lifetime. For me, the Motel 6 is rustic camping.
But as I said - there appear to be a lot of people really gung-ho about this. Itās got to have something going for it. And all the emphasis on safety is great. In the lecture sessions, they talked a lot about things Iād never thought of related to tying your horse to the trailer (as I sat there, wondering if Prozac Pony & Mr. Blondie were wandering away, or pawing the valve stems off my tiresā¦). It had never occurred to me that a horse might paw at my tire and break off the valve stem.
There were also some things, though, that struck me as being overly safe - if such a thing is possible. One of our āobstaclesā was to do a turn on the forehand and then back between a couple bushes. I was riding in my jumping saddle because I havenāt gotten around to shopping for a new dressage saddle yet (major Inverness problems with the old one - no WAY I was going to spend 2+ hours in it!). I knew that I didnāt have a chance in H-E-double hockey sticks of getting Mr. Blondie to listen to my leg with it way up there in jumping position, so I dropped my stirrups, asked him to turn, and started the reinback. From the look on the judgeās face, you would have thought I had reached down and removed my girth! āItās not SAFE to ride without stirrups!ā she said. āYou should never drop your stirrups.ā
Umā¦ Wellā¦ Trying to be fair here, thereās lots of conflicting stuff going on. She didnāt know me or my horse. BUT - Iām an adult. She might have given me credit for knowing whether or not it was safe to drop my stirrups. I was in a jumping saddle. By dropping my stirrups, I actually lowered my center of mass and had more leg on my horse than when I had my feet in the stirrups. Arguably, in some ways I was more secure than when I had my feet in the stirrups. Mind you, I wouldnāt have JUMPED that way, but I was perfectly comfortable doing what I did without stirrups, and I was perfectly comfortable the several other times on the trail when I dropped them, even sometimes when we went up & down small slopes. Iām used to riding without stirrups at WTC - itās NOT unsafe for me to drop my stirrups. I think to issue a blanket fiat that you should never drop your stirrups is going a bit overboard.
Butā¦ their game; their rules. You canāt compete in dressage without stirrups, either.
I also found their attitude towards leg protection odd - but Iām willing to accept that maybe itās because Iām just never on my horses for really long periods of time. Unless weāre just noodling around on the dirt roads in the neighborhood, I ALWAYS put some kind of galloping boots / brushing boots on my horses, as well as bell boots in front. I had a friend whose horse backed into a cactus and punctured a tendon sheath. He may never be ridable again. With a boot on, that wouldnāt have happened. But NATRC doesnāt allow leg protection. The woman running the clinic kept saying that sand gets in the boots and chafes the horsesā legs. I put boots on my horses for hunting - we go through washes and weāre out for 2 hours - no sand in them when we take the boots off. But maybe weāre just not out long enough. Hard to say. But that just might be a deal breaker for me.
RAR- Are you going to do the NATRC ride in Wickenburg? I am considering it. Iāve done a few NATRCs, the last being about 7 years ago.
It is interesting to hear your comments about CTR because I manage a non-sanctioned CTR, (which is faster paced and no obstacles) and we allow leg protection for some points off, no horsemanship judging, and dont care how you keep your horse at the trailer. I read the CTR yahoo group and they are always discussing these issues- should they get rid of the seemingly arbitrary rules to attract more people. I say yes!
I personally agree about the splint boots- I use them on my endurance horse who interferes and needs them, hence I cant do CTR with him. He never has a problem with sand, heat build-up, or what have you, and Iāve had them on up to 11 hours for a 65 miler!
I think the horsemanship judging rules are a little silly too. I am hoping to do the one in March though, with my young mare who doesnt need boots. I havent done enough NATRC to say for sure if I really like it, so we will seeā¦and I definitely want to try to support any horse sport in AZ!!
Oh, and if you do the Open division, I believe you go faster- like mostly trotting. The issue I guess would be though that this upcoming ride, is a 2 day for the Open division, so youād be doing 50-55 miles which is probably a lot for someone new to distance riding.
the 2 rides I did were Novice and wow, they were terrribly slow. My butt hurt so bad and I just wanted to trot and canter and get the dang thing over with!! I think one ride I did was 24 miles and we had over 8 hours to do it!!! Even taking some time to do the obstacles, that was way too slow!
[QUOTE=texasaggie1995;2950037]
I have almost 400 NATRC miles. I really enjoy the sport, but admit that it is not for everyone. Most Endurance horses would have trouble with the obsticles. They range from standing still while you mount to standing still while the group leaves him. You have to have a very well trained horse that is not of the race mentality. All the obsticles are horsemanship based. Equitation counts. You canāt go bouncing down the trail in NATRC and expect to do well. Your horse has to know how to open a gate and sidepass a log and many other things that take patience and time to teach. I have 175 AERC miles and have heard many AERC people putting natrc down, but I donāt take offense. I love both sports. My horse can do both. He is very well trained. I have spent years training him. Most people donāt want to do that. Endurance is much easier. But they are both fun. They are both about enjoying your horse and the beautiful country that God has blessed us with. If you have never done NATRC or you have tried it and done poorly and given up, then you havenāt experienced the sense of accomplishment that comes with knowing that your horse is so well trained that he can handle any number of things that come his way. That you are the best rider you can be. I have to admit that I am a bit of a snob when it comes to riding. After years of NATRC it is hard to go to an endurance ride and see people bouncing hard of their horses back, or riding two point the whole way, or posting the same diagional the whole trip. [/QUOTE]
Hey Aggie, I agree with you on much of this! NATRC is more about the horsemanship than the race. I salute those who do NATRC well. It takes a certain horse, patience and mindset for this sport.
However, its minutiae, detail and pace all are so far from what I look for in a sport. I like it less restriction, more excitement and figuring out my own strategy, riding my own ride.
Absolutely, my horse would not be able to do well in NATRC. She walks off while mounting, is a pain to open a gate from and when on the trail likes to move out. :lol: Hey but she does sidepass wellā¦
I am probably one of those folks youāve gasped about as far as equitation goes. Thats why I recently started dressage lessons to improve. The top endurance riders regularly school in dressage for a better partnership with their horses. While I do switch diagonals and avoid endless miles of two point, I am balance challenged and no equitation model. And Iāve seen worse at rides so I know just what mean LOL :eek:
I can see many benefits for the horse of the emphasis NATRC places on horsemanship - if it helps educate the folks who think they can just buy a horse and treat it like a bicycle, then more power to them! (Although my brother does triathlons, and some times, I think he treats his bikes better than I treat my horses!!! :lol:)
One of our obstacles involved walking over some ālogsā (itty bitty branches) going up a hill. We had to stop while straddling the third log, count to 5, then continue. I could just hear Mr. Blondie saying to me, āUm, Momā¦ thatās 20 penalty points! Weāre not supposed to STOP!!ā He was clearly confused But he listened to me like the good boy he is.
I donāt know - I guess I was expecting a higher obstacle to distance ratio. More like the Extreme Cowboy Race I recently watched. But I suppose if you only have one set of judges, and the judges have to haul a$$ from one obstacle to the next to catch all the horses, you have to have a lot of distance between obstacles.
Yes, and they are also judging on the condition of the horses-it is not just going out there doing obstacles. there are 2 scores- the horse and horsemanship.
I did a 30-mile CTR last fall. The pace was fast enough (5 hours max to do 30 miles), the judging of the horseās condition was a bit puzzling. She mentioned stuff that I couldnāt see or feel, and I was dumbfounded. However, I saw no point in arguing, because as somebody else posted, their game, their rules. My horseās back was not at all tender when we finished the ride, but we still somehow had had points deducted from the preride exam? I could be wrong about that, but it seemed very subjective to me.
At the pre-ride brief, I asked if they ever plan to allow hoof boots with gaiters, and they said that it is a source of contention. The person who was giving the brief is of the opinion that they cause chafing and should not be allowed. :no:
Again, I didnāt argue with them. But I thought that the vets/judges should then be required to judge the shoeing of the horses who are competing, because I saw quite a few terribly contracted heels on horses ridden by serious competitors :o. If one is going to make judgments about whether boots cause problems, then they should look more closely at the feet of all the horses. My horse lost a boot and had to do the last 15 miles barefootāshe did beautifully. I donāt think there were many shod horses who were sound for long after pulling a shoeāthey are too accustomed to shoes to handle the course barefoot and could be lame within a few strides of pulling a shoe. One can forfiet oneās standing in the ride and apply a boot with a gaiter to protect the hoof, but how many people are going to choose that option to save a hoof when it takes them out of the standing? And if your horse overreaches at all, the boots arenāt going to stay on without a gaiter or glue.
Sorry for the harangue. This is a bit of a sore spot for me. Iād love to try CTR with my OTTB, but I donāt want him in shoes and he needs the gaiters to keep the boots on. Heād pull shoes regularly since he overreaches. I liked the relaxed atmosphere of the CTR compared to endurance, and I liked how they started in groups of three rather than all at once. The only problem with starting in groups is if your horse gets herd bound, you are at the mercy of the other riders to ride a smart ride. Itās hard to ride your own pace when you are in a small group.
I guess it is a matter of different strokes for different folks. My horse would not do well if judged on manners (yet), but it sure would be a good challenge for us to have to focus on that rather than heading down the trail simply looking for trail markers. And I liked that people werenāt galloping madly around, yielded the trail for people passing, etc.
Iām sure there are good, fun folks in both disciplines, and there seem to be a number of people who compete in both. Iād like to be able to do both for different types of schooling for my horse. Not gonna happen because of the boots, though.
Iāve never had a problem with anyone yielding trail on an endurance ride. For the most part people are very considerate.
Iāve attended an endurance ride a couple of times that had both an ECTRA and an AERC ride running on the same course, same management simultaneously. Now it wasnāt anal NATRC so the pace for the CTR was pretty brisk. There seemed to be slightly different concerns for the participants but for the most part all was in harmony.
matry, yes the boots with gaiters is a whole nother issue for me. Finally have a distance horse who doesnt need splint boots but Iāve gone the whole barefoot route and am going to stay with that, its working well. SO if I do the upcoming NATRC ride, will have to foam regular easy boots on. Definitely not looking forward to that and it may be a deal killer.
I really think some of these rules should change!!
Noā¦ the no-boots issue is a deal-breaker for me, plus they were saying that Wickenburg is really rocky. I thought the Estrella Mtn trails were quite rocky (and my boys have pads in front), so I donāt even want to think about what Wickenburg might look like.
There is some sort of trail trials thing coming up at McDowell Mtn Regional Park soon - Iām trying to find out about that. Itās more expensive ($75) because itās a fundraiser, but the trails Iāve been on in that park have been quite good, and itās much closer for me than Estrella Mtn, so I might consider doing that, depending on what the requirements are and when it is.
My blonde horse asked me to put the Horses Help trail trials on his calendar, so I did. I saw it in Bridle & Bit. Iām happy that you saw it, too. It is 'spensive, but my whole worldview of 'spensive with horses has changed this past year, LOL.
I used to ride my previous Ayrab gelding in trail trials put on by the CA State Horsemenās Association, and they were basically walking trail rides, maybe 2-4 hours in length on average, with 10-12 obstacles along the way that you were judged at, similar to what you guys did yesterday. But there was no overnight camping or tying, no being judged at your trailer, and no restrictions on tack or equipment. They were basically a great excuse to go for a long, leisurely trail ride in a new park on new trails, with some obstacles thrown in along the way. If the one at McDowell Mountain is similar, and the trails arenāt real rocky, I really want to go! The palominos need to be there to represent!
For those of you who may get confused byt the seemingly different descriptions about CTRs, the entire NE secton of the US has ECTRA CTRs, not NATRC. For the Va rider who attended a ride that was both AERC and ECTRA, in reality it was an AERC endurance ride which had ECTRA sanctoning. What that means; in states where there are no ECTRA rides, an AERC ride manager can sanction with ECTRA so that any ECTRA member who enters the endurance ride can get mileage credit for their horse. They ride by AERC rules, itās an endurance ride. ECTRA rides are actually fairly fast paced. For instance you have 4 hours 10 min to 4 hours 40 min to complete a 25 mile ride. And that includes the 20 min hold at the mid point. AERC allows 6 hours from start to horse meeting the pulse requirement finish.
NATRC is often called a horse show in the woods. It would be largely about the training of your horse and your riding and your willingness to fit their mold. Lotās of folks love the judged trail rides also which are quite similar to NATRC, IMO.
Thanks for clearing that up Bonnie! I thought they were roughly the same thing, and that some ECTRA rides were judged. I found the pace of the 30 mile ride at Fair Hill to be brisk but not particularly fast. It was fun and people were very nice. There ware a lot of aspects I liked and some that I didnāt like. Given the chance, Iād do another CTR for sure.
People were also very nice at the Foxcatcher Endurance ride last year. However, I was very conscious of the fact that people who wanted to pass might feel aggressive about it, since it is something of a race. On the contrary, people were very nice to me, especially considering that my horse didnāt want to be passed and was a pain about it. I did hear complaining from others who were trying to win or top 10 about people not yielding to be passed, but perhaps those were regular trail riders who didnāt understand or care that an endurance rider was trying win.
Overall the care that one is taught in how to keep your horse alive while covering distance in the wildernessā¦ you know the goal is both horse and rider to come back alive and uninjured.
You learn to recognize trouble signs in advance of dire consequencesā¦ also you learn what to do when the unexpected actually shows up.
We use our show horses, they have a combined mileage of about 4,000 miles on them now; they seem to enjoy the outings rather than doing arena work all the time. They have been both nationally ranked as show horses and NATRC horses
NATRC is often called a horse show in the woods. It would be largely about the training of your horse and your riding and your willingness to fit their mold. Lotās of folks love the judged trail rides also which are quite similar to NATRC, IMO.[/QUOTE]
Not quite true but of course if you are back east on flat ground it may be considered such, you may need to try one in the Davis Mountains at 7,000ft
In short, it has made my horse a better horse, and me a better horseperson.
You might think you have a well trained horse until you ask him to stand still or sidepass over a W while all the Open riders are taking off at a brisk trot in front of himā¦
I also enjoy the camping aspect, and hanging out with the horses. Itās a fairly good value too, with most rides under $100 for 3 days, most often including some meals.
It has also allowed me to ride in all different areas, most with beautiful scenery, spots to which I probably would not have gotten on my own.
That said, I would rather have shorter rides and more obstacles. Wish TREC was popular over here like it is in Europe!
I have over 650 miles in NATRC so far, but will probably fade it out this year. My horse is now sane enough (because af all his miles with other horses passing, running in the distance, etcā¦) that he actually behaves himself on the cross country course, which I love.
CTR is great for some, butā¦ too restrictive for my tastes, and not enough āFARā. I prefer an Endurance ride which leaves the strategy, method, and speed up to me.
A little 2ā6" jumpers at schooling shows. But basically, I hate to show, so I really havenāt pursued the competitive aspects this past year. But I do really enjoy going out with the beagle pack and bopping around in the desert, and I enjoy jumping up to about 2ā6" - both in the ring and over cross country fences. And I actually like the challenge of dressage, too. But I donāt want to spend all my time in the ring.
