So what can be done to make Dressage more affordable?

[kris0227]

That’s what I’m asking. Why are the shows significantly cheaper (and to many of us, yes $200 more for a show is a deal breaker cause I don’t need memberships to show in a pleasure show, so that $200 becomes a lot more very quickly when memberships are involved just to show up)? And does the cost of shows contribute to the cost of the horses? If it costs me $$$$$ more to produce the horse to that level, it would make sense that the horse would then cost more if I want to sell it. Yes, I realize the difference in amount of training involved and there’s not really a completely equal correlation, but I think these are the questions we need to start asking to figure out why people are leaving dressage for other sports like Working Equitation or Western Dressage.

Along that thought process (yes, I’m a think out loud type… sorry everyone). Why do we HAVE TO BE A MEMBER to show? In order to be eligible for the “nameorganizationhere” classes at the open pleasure show, I have to be a member. But the open classes with no organization attached, I don’t have to be a member, and there’s at least one open class for every riding style so I’m not really limited on what I can show in. Would be that self defeating (for USDF or USEF) if they offered opportunity/open classes through Grand Prix? If you aren’t looking for awards or medals, and all you really want is an assessment from a high level judge on how you’re coming along in your dressage journey, then why do you need all the memberships?

On another note, I have fjords… so I get some really special looks at the stock horse shows when I show up. The judges seem to be entertained with the different breed.

[lenapesadie]

At least the system is letting me edit now!

I wish hunters were cheaper, same way I wish dressage was cheaper. Mostly I wish hay was cheaper though tbh!!! Showing is expensive, but I’m not seeing so many unreasonable costs on show bills that lead me to believe show cost could be reduced enough to make a significant impact. And overall my opinion is that compared to the price of horse keeping, the cost of shows is pretty small. Either I can afford to play or I can’t. Same with every other luxury item

[lenapesadie]

My local open shows require a membership, granted it’s like $25 for the year. I really like them. There are like 8 shows a year within a 30 min drive of my house.

Maybe the answer is grassroots local dressage clubs with “open” dressage shows! Will USDF sue us if we use their tests without being a GMO?

Running a big organization like USDF takes money and they aren’t generating income from breed registrations like AQHA. Maybe that’s part of the equation

[kris0227]

I still don’t know how to quote, I can only figure out reply.

And this is where the answer/experiences are really going to depend on the area of the country you live in… because where I am, keeping a horse on your own property is actually not that expensive. I have a small home on 5 acres and have 6 horses (2 retirees, 1 filly, 2 working, and a mini that’s just adorable) and I spend less a month to take care of all of them than I would to pay board on a SINGLE horse here. My mortgage is surprisingly low as well as land is cheap here, it’s probably less than most people in other areas of the country with no land.

So for me, $500 for a single day of showing just a couple of dressage classes is more than I spend per MONTH caring for 6 horses. I’m not sure that there’s a right answer for all parts of our country, but that’s why I’m pointing out the issues as I see them. I can’t speak for those in other areas as I haven’t lived there.

[kris0227]

We do have a lovely local open show circuit for dressage where the local barns that are members of the club do a couple shows a month during the warm months. It is a fantastic circuit and I’ve shown on it for many years. No membership is required actually. But… the limitation there is that the judges are ‘L’ judges. That’s why the opportunity classes at the rated shows in our area, aren’t really drawing many participants from what I’ve seen. Even without the memberships, those shows require stabling (no haul-ins) and expensive office fees. So, it’s still markedly more expensive than the local shows and you can’t show above first level in opportunity classes. The ‘L’ judges can judge at least first level and at the local shows, they’re more relaxed so they’ll actually give you tips at the end of your test. Why bother with an opportunity class at a USDF rated show when there are so many advantages to doing the local shows?

[trubandloki]

@kris0227

I still don’t know how to quote

There is more than one way to quote on this new forum. Both easier than the old forum.

First way is to highlight the portion of the post you want to quote, after you highlight you will get a grey box in the upper left corner that says quote. By picking that the quote button the highlighted text will appear in your reply box. Screen shot of me quoting you.

The other way is to hit the reply button in the lower right of the post and in the reply box hit the quote button.

More great information about how to use the new forum can be found in the FAQ thread in the technical help forum.

FAQ -- Tips for Using the Site

Here is a walk-through of many of the Discourse (our new Forums platform) features available, and below is an FAQ with help for specific questions. Also, here’s a YouTube video that provides a walkthrough of some features if you’d like to check that out. General Board FAQs

How do I log out?

Click your avatar in the upper right corner, then click your username. Click logout. [how do l log out]

How do I logout and log back in with a different username?

The forum pulls your user credentials f…

[kris0227]

thank you @trubandloki.

So, after all this yammering, I guess my first steps in making dressage more affordable/accessible, I would want USDF/USEF to require the following of their shows:

1. Allow haul-ins at all shows (I understand there’s a fee attached, but it’s usually and should be considerably less than a stall)
2. Opportunity classes at all levels

Those seem like pretty simple things that would make showing more affordable for those that are simply interested in getting the perspective of a qualified judge to see where they are in their journey. And if you invite people to show at opportunity classes at higher levels, maybe they’ll realize that their horse is good enough to score high enough to pursue medals. It might change how many people have annual memberships to both organizations but that SHOULD then trigger both organizations to consider their own benefit to their membership. What are they providing to their members that is worth the fees they charge? That is a cost/benefit analysis that we all do on our day to day expenses and USDF/USEF should be doing this for their membership as well.

[lenapesadie]

Here it’s “more affordable” to keep horses at home as well though not as affordable in your area. Undeveloped land in parcels under 10 acres typically go for around 20k per acre (in decent areas). Then of course building costs for fencing barn and arena are going to be many tens of thousands of dollars. Actual feed/hay/bedding costs per horse run about a third of decent board. Though the availability of “decent” boarding is questionable!

I would love to see a greater number of local / open shows. The availability of judges might be an issue.

For myself, one of the biggest hurdles to rated showing is the cost to get there! There are two rated show weekends for dressage within 2 hrs of my location. In order to show more often, I would have to travel. Incurring high costs for time off work, travel, shipping, hotel etc. It really doesn’t bother me as I believe the “problem” is that I’m a working stiff lol.

I’m not terribly familiar with the opportunity classes. Isn’t the whole point of those that the scores aren’t recorded? Why pay to show rated if the score isn’t recorded? If what one is looking for is just feedback then wouldn’t a clinic be a better choice?

The rated show local to me allows haul ins. I wonder why it’s different in different areas? I love the opportunity to stable at shows, even for one day. The convenience of a stall really improves my experience, so that’s a fee I’m always happy to pay.

[Piaffe11]

I feel like focusing on ‘those who can’t pay, can’t play’ and insinuating so sad, too bad for those people really isn’t going to help dressage in the long term.

Dressage is a dying sport in many areas of the US and Canada. The entries just aren’t there to grow the grassroots level of the sport. Yes, there are tonnes of rich, elites that are involved in dressage. They alone can’t make shows stay operational. If the entries aren’t there, the show won’t go on.

I pay $400 in membership fees and get nothing back from that. No clinics, no newsletter, training tips - nothing. It is up to our local clubs to do year end.

Where is my money going?

[kris0227]

@lenapesadie

I’m not terribly familiar with the opportunity classes. Isn’t the whole point of those that the scores aren’t recorded? Why pay to show rated if the score isn’t recorded? If what one is looking for is just feedback then wouldn’t a clinic be a better choice?

The rated show local to me allows haul ins. I wonder why it’s different in different areas? I love the opportunity to stable at shows, even for one day. The convenience of a stall really improves my experience, so that’s a fee I’m always happy to pay.

Look! I quoted you.

The opportunity classes, I believe, were designed to give people a taste of a rated show without paying all the membership fees to see if they wanted to attend a rated show. I believe USDF/USEF believed people weren’t going to rated shows cause they didn’t know how “awesome” they were. Unfortunately, that’s really not the case. Many people on this thread have commented that for them, dressage affordability is related to showing because when you go to a show, you get the feedback to make sure you’re moving in the right direction. Clinics are great… if there are some near you that you can afford. Obviously, the price of affordability is an individual thing. Personally, I do enjoy showing and getting my pony out for others to see because I want to promote the breed, but I don’t care about recording or medals. I use it to gauge if I’m moving in the right direction, or moving at all! I do the majority of my training at home by myself, I am the epitome of DIY when it comes to dressage.

I believe the haul-ins is actually a requirement of the facility. It’s either related to insurance or a money grab, I don’t know which as it’s never spelled out. I know one of our local facilities years ago allowed haul-ins and now they’ve decided you have to have a stall even at their schooling shows. I have friends that will haul-in to those shows with their required stall and show off the trailer any way because it’s just silly to unpack everything for a test or two. I would be interested to know why some facilities allow it and some don’t, but just as good footing is a requirement for USDF/USEF shows, so should the requirement that they be run in as affordable a manner as possible to improve accessibility of the sport.

My suggestions aren’t the only improvements needed or going to benefit everyone, but I think they’re sort of the low hanging fruit type of solutions. They aren’t the end-all be all answers, but I think these type of simple suggestions should be what USDF/USEF are pursuing to make the sport more accessible.

[Manni01]

No opportunity classes… that’s another rip off… they are not recorded… so you pay 3 membership fees and 2 registration fees per year and get nothing for it…
I think it’s amazing how many “cheap” alternatives there are offered, all without even storing your results…

[kris0227]

@Manni01

No opportunity classes… that’s another rip off… they are not recorded… so you pay 3 membership fees and 2 registration fees per year and get nothing for it…
I think it’s amazing how many “cheap” alternatives there are offered, all without even storing your results…

You don’t have to pay the membership or registration fees for the opportunity classes. But those classes don’t exist above first level.

[Manni01]

Agree totally!!!

[lenapesadie]

@Piaffe11

I pay $400 in membership fees and get nothing back from that.

Ok so let’s say USDF contributes nothing to the sport. We, the dressage enthusiast, revolt and overthrow their tyrannical reign. Now we are saving $400 per year. Let’s say as a result we negotiate with USEF to place price caps on dressage shows resulting in $1500 worth of saving if you show 8 times per year. Is this $2000 per year breaking your ability to enjoy your luxury hobby? Because compared to the costs of buying, training and keeping a horse, that’s chump change.

If we don’t like the idea that luxury hobbies are for those that can afford them, then we need to discuss politics and economics.

What can be done to make dressage more affordable? Realistically, very little.

[lenapesadie]

I like the idea of haul ins being allowed at all shows. I’m not sure how the opportunity classes at higher levels would work. Don’t higher levels require higher rated judges? Wouldn’t the cost to pay those judges have to be passed on to the competitor?

[Piaffe11]

Dressage doesn’t have to be a luxury hobby. We get charged because of the sport we are involved in. It’s marked up, like the wedding industry.

Why should I be fine spending $2000 a year in show fees, when the actual cost of putting on (and regulating) those shows is peanuts in comparison to what I’m paying?

I board in a very english-dressage oriented area. I actually board at a western facility because that is where my horse does best. The amenities in both my current facility and my past facility were the exact same. Both have large indoors, outdoor sand rings, trails, nice stalls, good care, etc. One cost me $900/month and the other $525.

English riders expect to pay more, western riders expect to pay less. I don’t understand why I’m supposed to just accept I have to pay more and move on.

[kris0227]

It is probably a show by show thing as I think they can be different levels. At the shows around here, they already offer Grand Prix, so they have the appropriate judges. They would just need to offer an opportunity version at each level. There are different levels of judges but I envision that if they offer the rated version of the test, they could just as easily offer the opportunity version.

[SillyHorse]

@Manni01

No opportunity classes… that’s another rip off… they are not recorded… so you pay 3 membership fees and 2 registration fees per year and get nothing for it…
I think it’s amazing how many “cheap” alternatives there are offered, all without even storing your results…

@kris0227

You don’t have to pay the membership or registration fees for the opportunity classes. But those classes don’t exist above first level.

@Manni01 Please familiarize yourself with the topics you trying to discuss. And yes, maybe you should start a scholarship fund or something similar if you think everyone should be able to compete at horse shows regardless of how much or how little money they have. It’s a fact of life that some have more than others. Horse sports are expensive, even without competing.

[lenapesadie]

I don’t see how the show fees are inflated compared to the cost of production of said event. Please explain where you see the cost of putting on a show being so much less than the costs of entries.

I have never once seen a western barn with truly comparable care, facilities and location be appreciably cheaper than an English barn. Clearly your experience is different

I just looked at a reining championship entry form. One class cost $1800 to enter. Just the class fee + judging fee. That’s not a stall or any other costs. Sure there’s some prize money, but guarantee there are for more entries than winners of any size able sum. Tell me again how western disciplines are cheaper. Disciplines often backed by a large governing body that makes money on breed registrations.

I’m saying the costs have very little room to go down and are relatively fairly priced for the market.

[lenapesadie]

@SillyHorse

have. It’s a fact of life that some have more than others. Horse sports are expensive, even without competing.

Exactly