So what can be done to make Dressage more affordable?

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

@lorilu

@MysticOakRanch and @AnastasiaBeaverhousen . Nanecalling is never effective. COmplaint police, huh? Just pointing out that all I do is tell the complainers what already exists.
IRT the Dressage Foundation, yes there are only 3 grants specificly for AAs; however, did you look at those for educational events? The ones for Jr and YR? the ones designed to help young professionals?

And @atlatl , I also wonder just where I would be in that list of “types”.

@Isabeau Z Solace have you checked out the Baroque Equestrian Games group? Very interesting. They recently had their annual educational event here in Ocala with some great speakers and etc. Find them on facebook. I have attended a few events with them, and taken a few clinics with their main clinician. It was very good.

You can either work for change from the inside, or bang on the door as an outsider. Rarely does the second method get results.

You don’t like your local GMO? They are snobby/only interested in showing/etc etc? Start your own group. Happened in Florida a few years ago; happens everywhere.

You want education? Organize something. There are grants available to help.

You want more AA classes in shows? Talk to the manager.

You think showing is too expensive? You can show opportunity classes (yes, just the lowest levels.) You can show and earn scores for Rider Awards with just a GMO membership.

You don’t want to show at all? Get an Education membership and take advantage of the ETrak videos and podcasts (or whatever its name is now)

Or, just decide that the whole system is not for you, stick to local schooling shows to have someone offer a measure of your training, find a clinician on youtube that fits your needs and whose methods you agree with, have fun, train your horse, take an occasional lesson… whatever works for you.

The most important part is to enjoy YOUR journey with YOUR horse.

Going out to ride now. Won’t be back to this thread. Its just the same old same old…

Dont let the stall door hit your ass on the way out.

[Manni01]

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen

Manni,
I’ll try this again because I really want to know your answer.

What rules specifically are keeping you from showing?

Exactly how are the super rich stepping on your reins?

If you want prize money why dont you compete in open classes?

I’m not defending anything.
The USDF is the national governing body that writes the rules and policy for Dressage Competitions in accordance with The FEI. The International Governing Body.

I dont know how they set the prices for shows, fees, dues , symposiums, clinics, etc.

If your complaint is against the USDF then write them a concise, detailed letter citing from the Rule book why you think the rules need to be changed, and how it affects you.

It may not change anything but you made your voice heard.

Ok you want my answer… tried to give it to you already but i guess I wasn’t clear enough…
I am sorry I might have some money but I am not able ( and willing to spend 600 to 800 a weekend several times a month for shows on top of all the other costs… So I limited my showing to reach only my goals… I got what I wanted but I thought it was sad that I was only able to show one horse and that I only showed for specific scores…
Maybe I didn’t like it because I was used to a different way of showing.
And about the rules, The AA rule in the US is pretty stupid and useless… No idea why it exists…

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

@Manni01 ,

What is about the AA rule that you find stupid and useless?

What would you have liked to have done differently?

Why dont you want to ride in open classes?

[MysticOakRanch]

@Manni01 , no need to justify why you are here, that is none of our business, but you have participated in German Dressage competition, so what could we borrow from their system that would make OUR system more inclusive?

I wish we had the training support system in the US that exists in Germany, but that isn’t going to happen. Germany’s culture revolves around horse sports, while ours revolves around ball sports. We won’t change that, sadly. I hate Football 🤣

Our shows need to at least break even. Otherwise they won’t ever happen.

So, what would you change? I 100% agree, we have too many governing bodies. I think we could easily eliminate USEF or USDF. But what else?

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Wae–lll, pilgrims, I could stroll into my GMO and tell them there’s new sheriff in town, .

I could wrest the presidency away from the current officer.

I could try to implement new policies, more schooling shows, outreach into the area , liaise with other disciplines

I could try to get more grants, etc.

The problem is that no one would know me, I dont have cred , no show record, no formal education in dressage.

I work full time so I wouldn’t have the time to give that the members deserve. And most people would resent having someone over them that knows less than they do. I know I did.

I could join the GMO. I volunteered a long time ago at a show that was held at the stable I boarded at. The members were appreciative as I recall. And very nice to me

But again. I work full time and I wouldn’t be able to participate much and I dont really find I could contribute that much.

Maybe down the road it may be possible.

[MysticOakRanch]

@Manni01 , no need to justify why you are here, that is none of our business, but you have participated in German Dressage competition, so what could we borrow from their system that would make OUR system more inclusive?

I wish we had the training support system in the US that exists in Germany, but that isn’t going to happen. Germany’s culture revolves around horse sports, while ours revolves around ball sports. We won’t change that, sadly. I hate Football 🤣

Our shows need to at least break even. Otherwise they won’t ever happen.

So, what would you change? I 100% agree, we have too many governing bodies. I think we could easily eliminate USEF or USDF. But what else? And why does the Aa designation hurt us?

[atlatl]

@MorganSercu

You’re a mathematician, or inclined that way, would you please define that subset? It is hardly going to persuade them to become interested, but they (we?) may benefit from knowing exactly who and what we are to USDF & USEF.

I was referring to another post that used the phrase “bringing dressage to the unwashed masses.” From that context, I interpret that group to be the those who are not wealthy or competing at the highest levels.

On a lighter note: I hold BS and MS degrees in mathematics; I am a mathematician as I pointed out to the CAPT of my hubby’s ship at a social function eons ago when he mentioned that he heard I was a “math major.” This was in the days when a ship’s public affairs officer put together dossiers on all the spouses so the CAPT could engage in social chit chat.

[MorganSercu]

It is a phrase that should be dropped. Particularly since Western Dressage IS catching on. If WD grows in popularity, competitive and traditional dressage trainers may benefit from having a growing base.

[Manni01]

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen

Wae–lll, pilgrims, I could stroll into my GMO and tell them there’s new sheriff in town, .

I could wrest the presidency away from the current officer.

I could try to implement new policies, more schooling shows, outreach into the area , liaise with other disciplines

I could try to get more grants, etc.

The problem is that no one would know me, I dont have cred , no show record, no formal education in dressage.

I work full time so I wouldn’t have the time to give that the members deserve. And most people would resent having someone over them that knows less than they do. I know I did.

I could join the GMO. I volunteered a long time ago at a show that was held at the stable I boarded at. The members were appreciative as I recall. And very nice to me

But again. I work full time and I wouldn’t be able to participate much and I dont really find I could contribute that much.

Maybe down the road it may be possible.

not sure where you live, but I joined my areas GMO and that was the nicest experience ever. so maybe just start to get involved and look where it gets you…

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Thank you Manni01

[Cowgirl]

I have seen a beautifully ridden, harmonious lower level dressage test done on a ranch bred, 5-6 moving cutting horse (rider’s husband’s horse) and earn a 65%. I have seen an absolutely abysmal, badly ridden lower level test done on a warmblood with 8/8.5 gaits also get a 65%. (I have also seen championship tests that get 10-15% different scores between C and B because of how uphill built a horse is, and beat much better tests by horses that had consistent scores from C and B).

This is because of what is emphasized on the tests. It has devolved over the years. Some now think it’s a stupid sport because of this–dressage showing, that is, not training dressage.

It also seems that the organizations do not listen to their constituency. The freestyle qualifying rule change was a big example of this. It appears that both organizations are now about creating an environment to produce an international team, and create an exclusionary system for it. That’s fine. Just don’t be surprised when the membership go elsewhere.

What do we need? I think, first and foremost, different leadership that can create different emphasis on tests so that that training IS rewarded and people still think they can aspire. For some reason, the current leadership feels that if we don’t emphasize gaits over training, we will never get to be competitive on an international level. Really this is mixing things up.

[Manni01]

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen

Thank you Manni01

You are welcome and that’s exactly how I developed some of my opinions… in our schooling shows there was no division into pros and AAs… and I don’t think it destroyed the show…
We had knowledgeable Judges so we got correct feed back… What I also found out was that “rich” AAs (whatever “rich” may mean, it’s my classification for AAs who spend well more then 5000 per month for boarding and lessons and shows… and some of them spend a lot more…) never participated in those shows because they preferred rated shows…

We looked into sponsoring and I personally found out that obviously those AAs preferred to sponsor judges … Its ok with me, I have no problems with it, I do have enough money for myself it was just an observation… I tend to make observations along my daily life…

So I think a nice way to make showing more affordable for everybody, would be to encourage these “rich” AAs to sponsor classes in shows… Wouldn’t it be nice to go to a show and to be able to win back your class fees??
and the “rich” AAs could win it as well… so equal chances for everybody…

And I would not divide classes into AAs and Open but in riders who score mostly over 65 and riders who stay mostly below… (65 is just a fast suggestion there might be other criteria). Then I would erase the AA rule which would give AA riders the possibility to make some money which they could use towards their hobby… I am pretty sure that AAs are usually not good enough to make a fortune with it and if they are good enough they will be in the classes for riders with higher scores anyhow…

[xQHDQ]

@Cowgirl

I have seen a beautifully ridden, harmonious lower level dressage test done on a ranch bred, 5-6 moving cutting horse (rider’s husband’s horse) and earn a 65%. I have seen an absolutely abysmal, badly ridden lower level test done on a warmblood with 8/8.5 gaits also get a 65%.

This is the problem in a nutshell.

Solution: change how tests are scored. The directive of the test should be the start of scoring - not gaits as it is now. Currently, if you have an 8 mover, the score starts at an 8 and can only go down, so if you start with 6 gaits, you’re already behind the 8-ball.

This cannot be changed at the “grass-roots level”. It is how the system is currently designed. The people who designed it are the ones in charge, so there is no motivation to change it. Very few at the grass roots level are stepping up to take over from those currently in charge (because of very valid reasons, such as work and family etc). But that’s what it will take. Emails/SM posts/online discussions are all good to hash out ideas, but action is needed.

Options for us who don’t like it: get involved, suck it up, or get out.

[soloudinhere]

It’s been my experience that if you are a “rich” AA who sponsors a class, if you or anyone you know then win the class, you sure don’t get accolades for it.

Nice to want the rich AAs to pay for it, but then criticize them when they win, pretty much the only way that people will be happy is if the “rich AA” goes away.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

I’m curious about one thing.
I dont know how the European scoring system works below FEi.
I can research the UK.
But I cant read German, French , Dutch, Russian, etc.
I do know some Spanish but not enough to translate such a specific argot like dressage.

The USDF has adapted to the European scoring system below FEI levels but obviously not the educational availability.

The German system will never happen in the US.
Except for the ceremonial horses the US Army got out of horses and horse breeding after it became me chanized.

But perhaps we ought to look at the UK , or other European countries that dont have a national stud, or government supported programs , and research on how they supply education and training opportunities for the lower levels. Maybe they have programs that the USDF can adapt as models as well.

It seems to me that the British are much more amenable and accepting about Non WB s .

I could be wrong about that, as so far the Britsh , Canadian, and Australian COTHers have not weighed in.

I would be very interested to hear if they have the same complaints as the AAs here in the US.

[pluvinel]

@xQHDQ

This is the problem in a nutshell.

… AGREE

Options for us who don’t like it: get involved, suck it up, or get out.

As far as …“get involved, suck it up, or get out.”

We did…then…We did…and then…We did.

I am sure I am not alone.

[Mondo]

I’ve been following this thread closely. I have to mention something that has come up, but was not really discussed. Dressage is HARD. I have lost a few students over the years to other disciplines. They just got too frustrated with how “slow” their progress was. Hunter/Jumper is so much easier. Western is so much easier. (And yes, I’ve trained and shown in both arenas.) Breed shows are so much more a level playing field because you don’t worry about the uber movers beating out the well-trained “plain” horses. Yes, the expense is certainly a huge factor especially for showing. But if you just want to train your horse and “enjoy the journey,” as we are all taught to do, then you still need to shell out bucks for quality tack, lessons, maybe even some pro training to get your horse to a point where you can ride it. When you couple that expense with the amount of time and dedication it takes to make any progress, you are going to lose a lot of potential students and/or spectators.

There are ways to make showing more affordable. There are ways to market dressage to make it more appealing to a broader section of the populace. But at the end of it all, there really is no way to make dressage EASY. It’s hard. It takes dedication, patience, a lot of education, and a willingness to really, truly enjoy the journey and not be looking for the end game all the time (ribbons, medals, a place on the Olympic Team…). There just aren’t that many people willing to do that for their hobby, sport, whatever you want to call it.

[Manni01]

@soloudinhere

It’s been my experience that if you are a “rich” AA who sponsors a class, if you or anyone you know then win the class, you sure don’t get accolades for it.

Nice to want the rich AAs to pay for it, but then criticize them when they win, pretty much the only way that people will be happy is if the “rich AA” goes away.

Oh so you sponsored classes with money prizes in rated shows?? Interesting, My experience is that sometimes somebody who wasn’t expected to win gets the prize 😀… if more people can afford to show maybe there will be more competition?

[Manni01]

@Mondo

I’ve been following this thread closely. I have to mention something that has come up, but was not really discussed. Dressage is HARD. I have lost a few students over the years to other disciplines. They just got too frustrated with how “slow” their progress was. Hunter/Jumper is so much easier. Western is so much easier. (And yes, I’ve trained and shown in both arenas.) Breed shows are so much more a level playing field because you don’t worry about the uber movers beating out the well-trained “plain” horses. Yes, the expense is certainly a huge factor especially for showing. But if you just want to train your horse and “enjoy the journey,” as we are all taught to do, then you still need to shell out bucks for quality tack, lessons, maybe even some pro training to get your horse to a point where you can ride it. When you couple that expense with the amount of time and dedication it takes to make any progress, you are going to lose a lot of potential students and/or spectators.

There are ways to make showing more affordable. There are ways to market dressage to make it more appealing to a broader section of the populace. But at the end of it all, there really is no way to make dressage EASY. It’s hard. It takes dedication, patience, a lot of education, and a willingness to really, truly enjoy the journey and not be looking for the end game all the time (ribbons, medals, a place on the Olympic Team…). There just aren’t that many people willing to do that for their hobby, sport, whatever you want to call it.

Totally agree and another reason why there shouldn’t be the additional money barrier…

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

@Mondo

I’ve been following this thread closely. I have to mention something that has come up, but was not really discussed. Dressage is HARD. I have lost a few students over the years to other disciplines. They just got too frustrated with how “slow” their progress was. Hunter/Jumper is so much easier. Western is so much easier. (And yes, I’ve trained and shown in both arenas.) Breed shows are so much more a level playing field because you don’t worry about the uber movers beating out the well-trained “plain” horses. Yes, the expense is certainly a huge factor especially for showing. But if you just want to train your horse and “enjoy the journey,” as we are all taught to do, then you still need to shell out bucks for quality tack, lessons, maybe even some pro training to get your horse to a point where you can ride it. When you couple that expense with the amount of time and dedication it takes to make any progress, you are going to lose a lot of potential students and/or spectators.

There are ways to make showing more affordable. There are ways to market dressage to make it more appealing to a broader section of the populace. But at the end of it all, there really is no way to make dressage EASY. It’s hard. It takes dedication, patience, a lot of education, and a willingness to really, truly enjoy the journey and not be looking for the end game all the time (ribbons, medals, a place on the Olympic Team…). There just aren’t that many people willing to do that for their hobby, sport, whatever you want to call it.

So true. Dressage is not for everybody.
Many years ago I boarded at a farm that wasnt dressage based but most of the boarders were into dressage
We got a border that was definitely a Ribbon Ho.
I dont how she first got interested in dressage but she found someone who found her a horse. Found a trainer. Bought lots of new tack, ( moved all my stuff around because she liked my spot better. BO set her straight. Her trainer was embarrassed when she heard about it.)
I met boarder one time . Not snobby. Was pleasant.
Did not know her own horse and brought another horse in by mistake.
She took 6 lessons and when it didn’t come easy
she quit. Told her trainer to sell the horse, the tack everything just get rid of it.
She was a great tennis player, and I always felt that she thought it would be easy because she was an athlete.

I felt sorry for her in a way, and all those like her that ride for the glory of it and the horse is just another piece of equipment and a status symbol or a way to hob nob with the 1%.

They are missing out on the joy of riding. Those little light bulb moments where something you’ve been trying to work on for weeks or months finally happens.

It is in some ways like ballet ( I really hate that saying)
Littlel girls and boys can take ballet lessons and learn the steps but few are willing and devoted enough, or have ability to sacrifice everything and do what it takes to make it to the highest level.

In that sense dressage is an art, as others have commented , and not a sport.